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John Collins - Max kat, 90 million-4yrs kat, or Gallo salary kat


NBASupes

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Just now, REHawksFan said:

Well the alternative is to let him walk for nothing or hope he takes a hometown discount.  I don't see the latter happening and I think the former would set the team back too much.  Someone's going to offer him more than he's probably worth.  Hawks either match or let him walk.  I'd match and hope one of 2 things happens.  Either 1, JC continues to evolve and becomes a playmaker with a handle that justifies the contract OR 2, they find a trade in the future that makes sense and nets them a reasonable return.  

Walking isn't listed. SnT like Brogdon or resigning. Atlanta cannot let him walk like Sacramento did with Bogi. You must get a 1st or two 1st so you can recoup some of your lost value with JC gone.

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25 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

So far in the playoffs he's had 2 bad games (mostly with foul difficulty) and those are our 2 losses.    So to me it shows his importance to this team.

I'd be fine with 4/100 or even a little more.  

He is important. He does have a WAR of 0.4. That means his value is positive for us. When he plays, it means Gallo mins can be manageable 

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5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

What do you think based on what you seen so far. 

To me, he's the 5th most important player on our team maybe at best is a 6th man on a legit contender. Once Cam gets it together, likely 6th and Okongwu potential can be special and push him to 7th long term. I want to resign him but cost is everything. JC can't be a 6th or 7th man making 25 million a year in 2023 or 2024. 

I think him and Gallo should be on the same type of contracts honestly.

I'll rather resign Kevin for 4/50-60 range than JC at 4/70-80. 

What about you? What do you think?

Just a hot take here. 

1.  Trae

2. Clint

3. Bogi

4. Collins

Is the order.   Even if Gallo was better, his age makes him less important to this franchise's future than JC.   Since Nate has taken over, JC's importance has taken a backseat but he's still a very skilled player.   Young... makes dumb fouls.. but can hit open shots.  Plays good defense.  Rebounds solidly.   Very good finisher on the pick and Roll. 

Okongwu better challenge.   You act as though a high first round pick shouldn't be able to challenge in a few years. 

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4 hours ago, aali34 said:

His current play doesn't warrant a max to me, but the market dictates his worth which will be around max level. He can't create for himself well and if Trae isn't creating looks for him he's almost invisible on offense. He can't score in crowds unless he has a straight line to the rim and his handles are suspect.  

I don't think John's development is done. He's grown every year and has had his role change each season. I think now he knows where he fits on the team and what areas he needs to improve to be most effective. Remember this was his first time playing major minutes as a perimeter player and he did well in the regular season.

I'd like him to come back next season better at attacking from the wing and closeouts and also develop some go-to spots in the midrange. 

4/90 is what I'd prefer.

He's a PNR specialist and he can pick and pop. 

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I like John here more than some of you, but I do see the argument of how has value has diminished some with our improved roster. I think he still has room to grow, but he isn’t worth the max. That said, unless there is something worked out via a SnT, we’d be foolish not to match an offer and just lose him. Especially after this season, we need to keep our momentum going with next season already only 4 months away.

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36 minutes ago, Diesel said:

He's a PNR specialist and he can pick and pop. 

Which is all he's been expected to do under LP. 

Nate's given him a longer leash and I expect him to watch film and see areas where he can put his mark on the floor especially when alot of attention is on Trae.

This game he he had 2 possessions where he took his man from the beyond the three point line and scored. It's against a bad and smaller OKC team but I like what I saw. He needs to add to his game from that point of attack in order to contribute. I think he will.

 

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1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Just a hot take here. 

1.  Trae

2. Clint

3. Bogi

4. Collins

Is the order.   Even if Gallo was better, his age makes him less important to this franchise's future than JC.   Since Nate has taken over, JC's importance has taken a backseat but he's still a very skilled player.   Young... makes dumb fouls.. but can hit open shots.  Plays good defense.  Rebounds solidly.   Very good finisher on the pick and Roll. 

Okongwu better challenge.   You act as though a high first round pick shouldn't be able to challenge in a few years. 

Hunter is #2 if are talking futures value. Clint is not #2 in futures value or higher than Bogi.

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57 minutes ago, aali34 said:

Which is all he's been expected to do under LP. 

Nate's given him a longer leash and I expect him to watch film and see areas where he can put his mark on the floor especially when alot of attention is on Trae.

This game he he had 2 possessions where he took his man from the beyond the three point line and scored. It's against a bad and smaller OKC team but I like what I saw. He needs to add to his game from that point of attack in order to contribute. I think he will.

 

It's easy to do that to OKC with no rim protection and scrubs at PF. The playoffs has higher quality of players.

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2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

It's easy to do that to OKC with no rim protection and scrubs at PF. The playoffs has higher quality of players.

Yup. The playoffs has has shown that he struggles when you get in his airspace. I think he can improve and you're not confident that he can. It'll be interesting what the FO thinks and what decision they make. 

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I think you have to either sign him with the possibility of looking to move him within the year or after the year or sign and trade him this offseason. Having said that, I don't know what I'd do at PF, I just know that we've seen Hunter at PF fail for the Hawks in the past, so I'm not trying it again.

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11 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I think you have to either sign him with the possibility of looking to move him within the year or after the year or sign and trade him this offseason. Having said that, I don't know what I'd do at PF, I just know that we've seen Hunter at PF fail for the Hawks in the past, so I'm not trying it again.

Hunter was better at PF for us than SF as a rookie. He failed at both as a rookie. He had a -1.0 WAR as a rookie. The transition was too much as a rookie and he had Damian Jones as well. 

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9 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Including Collins, who can take his game to the next level by developing his off the dribble offensive skills.

As for Cam, he has one more season before the Hawks may have to decide to deal him ... to make room for a Kevin Huerter extension.

He's the one that's going to make Cam expendable.

I don’t think so. SFs are so hard to come by these days especially bigger ones. I say we resign Collins to a 4/95 mil and when cams time come around we sign him to what he’s worth or shown at that time.

we are way too young to be thinking about giving up any of youth in my opinion.

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3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Hunter is #2 if are talking futures value. Clint is not #2 in futures value or higher than Bogi.

I agree the 2nd best player is Hunter and has been all season in my opinion when he was healthy. Capela was 3rd best overall for the team but number 1 defensively. Hunter is 2nd best overall and 2nd best defender that we have but number 1 perimeter defender.

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Just now, JTB said:

I agree the 2nd best player is Hunter and has been all season in my opinion when he was healthy. Capela was 3rd best overall for the team but number 1 defensively. Hunter is 2nd best overall and 2nd best defender that we have but number 1 perimeter defender.

Hunter is just flat out better than anyone on this team not named Trae. We drafted him higher than Trae and paid a premium to get him.

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50 minutes ago, aali34 said:

Yup. The playoffs has has shown that he struggles when you get in his airspace. I think he can improve and you're not confident that he can. It'll be interesting what the FO thinks and what decision they make. 

His handles are weak

His shooting is weak if not open 

Can't really create his own basket if someone plays discipline defense 

His energy is always there and he plays hard and he's a heck of an athlete. He has value but how much for a contender?

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JC's seasons 2 thru 4 vs. Tobias' seasons 2 thru 4, both becoming RFAs after that 4th season...

2021-06-11_23-18-58.png

Observations from the Orlando rag following Tobias' signing a $64m deal that would in the first year eat up about 23% of the Magic's room under that season's $70m cap...

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-magic-tobias-harris-deal-0704-20150703-story.html

2021-06-11_23-27-10.png

Interesting to me, maybe only me, that when you do the math, 23% of the projected $112m cap for next season is in the $25-$26m/yr neighborhood.

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22 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

His handles are weak

His shooting is weak if not open 

Can't really create his own basket if someone plays discipline defense 

His energy is always there and he plays hard and he's a heck of an athlete. He has value but how much for a contender?

All valid. But this year he's played with a guy who took what he did best and he adjusted around him. Being able to evolve your game during the season is the mark of a good player. 

You said in another thread that his role is smaller with Nate. That doesn't seem to bother him like it did with LP. I think it's because he now has an idea of where he's needed on the court and right now he doesn't provide value there. It's up to him to build on what he's done this season. The unfortunate part is that it comes on a contract year. 

Hypothetically, where do you think he needs to improve, and why are you skeptical that he can't?

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1 minute ago, aali34 said:

All valid. But this year he's played with a guy who took what he did best and he adjusted around him. Being able to evolve your game during the season is the mark of a good player. 

You said in another thread that his role is smaller with Nate. That doesn't seem to bother him like it did with LP. I think it's because he now has an idea of where he's needed on the court and right now he doesn't provide value there. It's up to him to build on what he's done this season. The unfortunate part is that it comes on a contract year. 

Hypothetically, where do you think he needs to improve, and why are you skeptical that he can't?

I'll rather keep him. Value matters. He feels like Favors and Hield more than Bodan (UTA) and Crowder

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