I looked at the 2021 FAs..


Diesel
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There's nobody that can help us with size and defense.

Worse...  JC is the #2 ranked FA.

Worse....  I can't think of anybody that we could trade for that would make us stronger in the middle. 

 

Maybe picking up Montrezl Harrell?

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10 hours ago, NBASupes said:

The PF position is weak in this generation. Everyone is using big wings instead as it's more impactful.

Any traditional “PF” is being slotted as a center most of the time these days. 

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18 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

Any traditional “PF” is being slotted as a center most of the time these days. 

What's a traditional PF nowadays though?

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7 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

There are no game changing free agents available. But there are guys who could help our bench and improve our depth though. 

It looked like a strong class till everyone resigned or signed extensions

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What's a traditional PF nowadays though?

John Collins 

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Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

That's a non answer.

They do the dirty work, rebounding, they score either in the post or in the PnR or PnP. They lack positional versatility. They can shoot with range. They usually have good size but not center size. 

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1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

It looked like a strong class till everyone resigned or signed extensions

John Collins 

I disagree.  His pick and pop game and his three point shooting makes him more of a stretch 4.  For the second year in a row, he's shooting about 40% from 3. 

 

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2 hours ago, Diesel said:

I disagree.  His pick and pop game and his three point shooting makes him more of a stretch 4.  For the second year in a row, he's shooting about 40% from 3. 

 

That's still a traditional 4. Range in the 2000s for a 4 was the deep 2 for spacing. Now it's the 3 ball and it's a requirement for a 4. 

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16 hours ago, NBASupes said:

The PF position is weak in this generation. 

So was the Center position until Jokic and Embiid erupted. There was a time Drummond and Roy Hibbert were seen as the faces of young talent at the 5 position:sick:. Guys better suited at the 4 moved up to the 5 and you had "softies" like KAT and Porzingis unable to provide the physicality, defense, and bruising nature at the 5.

Before this season there hadn't been a center MVP since Shaq, and now younger guys like Ayton and Wiseman are showing potential.

Essentially JC has to put in work to make teams pay for hiding wings on him. If he can't he won't be championship material.

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50 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That's still a traditional 4. Range in the 2000s for a 4 was the deep 2 for spacing. Now it's the 3 ball and it's a requirement for a 4. 

Traditional....existing in or as part of a tradition; long-established.  or

Traditional....produced, done, or used in accordance with tradition.

 

Nowhere does traditional mean changes from year to year or decade to decade. 

Jack Sikma and Dirk and Pat Garrity and KG  were examples of non-traditional PFs.   However, the traditional PF is in the mold of Charles Barkley, Karl Malone.  Is real nice that you try to have a moving definition of traditional but by definition... that's wrong sir. 

 

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17 hours ago, Diesel said:

There's nobody that can help us with size and defense.

Worse...  JC is the #2 ranked FA.

Worse....  I can't think of anybody that we could trade for that would make us stronger in the middle. 

 

Maybe picking up Montrezl Harrell?

 

No.

That means you simply re-sign Collins at an inflated rate, to keep a certain amount of talent on that frontline.

This team is getting great experience in this year's playoffs.  Win or lose, the team will be better for it going into next season.

Certain guys will know what they need to work on, in order to become better players once the postseason hits.

 

And if push comes to shove, a talent and a contract like Collins might land us a better free agent prospect.  I think you mentioned Karl Anthony-Towns as a possible target.   A package involving Collins + some of our young talent or draft picks, could land Towns in ATL.

He's a big that may frustrate Embiid.  LOL . . they do have a "little" history going up against each other.

 

 

 

Hawks fans would flat out reject a trade that included 1st rd pick ( lottery protected ) + Max Collins + De'Andre Hunter for Karl-Anthony Towns. 

But Hawks fans also need to remember that if you really want to win a championship, you need 1 or 2 Hall of Famers on your roster 80% of the time.  KAT has Hall of Fame type numbers, and is in his prime.  Trae is on track to be one of the all time PG greats.  Collins is good.  Hunter is good.  But both can be replaced with comparable talent.

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48 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Traditional....existing in or as part of a tradition; long-established.  or

Traditional....produced, done, or used in accordance with tradition.

 

Nowhere does traditional mean changes from year to year or decade to decade. 

Jack Sikma and Dirk and Pat Garrity and KG  were examples of non-traditional PFs.   However, the traditional PF is in the mold of Charles Barkley, Karl Malone.  Is real nice that you try to have a moving definition of traditional but by definition... that's wrong sir. 

 

All PFs are expected to have range in 2021. That's a fact, not a movement of the goalpost.

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12 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

No.

That means you simply re-sign Collins at an inflated rate, to keep a certain amount of talent on that frontline.

This team is getting great experience in this year's playoffs.  Win or lose, the team will be better for it going into next season.

Certain guys will know what they need to work on, in order to become better players once the postseason hits.

 

And if push comes to shove, a talent and a contract like Collins might land us a better free agent prospect.  I think you mentioned Karl Anthony-Towns as a possible target.   A package involving Collins + some of our young talent or draft picks, could land Towns in ATL.

He's a big that may frustrate Embiid.  LOL . . they do have a "little" history going up against each other.

 

 

 

Hawks fans would flat out reject a trade that included 1st rd pick ( lottery protected ) + Max Collins + De'Andre Hunter for Karl-Anthony Towns. 

But Hawks fans also need to remember that if you really want to win a championship, you need 1 or 2 Hall of Famers on your roster 80% of the time.  KAT has Hall of Fame type numbers, and is in his prime.  Trae is on track to be one of the all time PG greats.  Collins is good.  Hunter is good.  But both can be replaced with comparable talent.

Its wishful thinking to think we can get KAT and would an extended JC have that value even with Hunter in the deal? The biggest issue is if KAT is ever available which he isn't, what stopping him from wanting to join his former agent and crew in Manhattan?

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2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Its wishful thinking to think we can get KAT and would an extended JC have that value even with Hunter in the deal? The biggest issue is if KAT is ever available which he isn't, what stopping him from wanting to join his former agent and crew in Manhattan?

 

Playoff opportunities. 

And an outstanding passing PG that can make him an All-NBA player again.

KAT is still a very young player with probably another 8 - 10 All-Star level years in him.

Instead of being in the pressure cooker in NYC, in which he'll be the only All-Star player and have to face overwhelming fan and media scrutiny, why not go to Atlanta and play alongside Trae?

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Just now, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Playoff opportunities. 

And an outstanding passing PG that can make him an All-NBA player again.

KAT is still a very young player with probably another 8 - 10 All-Star level years in him.

Instead of being in the pressure cooker in NYC, in which he'll be the only All-Star player and have to face overwhelming fan and media scrutiny, why not go to Atlanta and play alongside Trae?

There haven't been any rumors out of Minny about him wanting out since Ant emerged. 

If he does, NY is the overwhelming favorite as his former agent is there and former mentor is there in WWW. 

I am not denying his ability or talent. I am questioning his potential availability especially to the Hawks. 

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1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

There haven't been any rumors out of Minny about him wanting out since Ant emerged. 

If he does, NY is the overwhelming favorite as his former agent is there and former mentor is there in WWW. 

I am not denying his ability or talent. I am questioning his potential availability especially to the Hawks. 

 

I'm just tossing out a scenario in which a piece like Collins can be moved for a better player.  It may not be Minnesota for Towns.  It may be some other team for their disgruntled star player.

The fact is that John Collins has value in this league, especially seeing that he's only 23 years old and has consistently improved his skill level as a player.  The Hawks are much better off keeping him as our PF in the short term, then possibly dealing him for a potential championship piece in the long term. 

And even if we sign him at an inflated price tag, that may reduce the amount of pieces we have to pair with him, in order to make a deal.  Whatever deal Collins get, the Hawks should match immediately.  If he doesn't get a deal higher than 4 / 90, the Hawks should go ahead and give him at least that money, in order to keep any animosity developing between he and the organization.

 

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1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I'm just tossing out a scenario in which a piece like Collins can be moved for a better player.  It may not be Minnesota for Towns.  It may be some other team for their disgruntled star player.

The fact is that John Collins has value in this league, especially seeing that he's only 23 years old and has consistently improved his skill level as a player.  The Hawks are much better off keeping him as our PF in the short term, then possibly dealing him for a potential championship piece in the long term. 

And even if we sign him at an inflated price tag, that may reduce the amount of pieces we have to pair with him, in order to make a deal.  Whatever deal Collins get, the Hawks should match immediately.  If he doesn't get a deal higher than 4 / 90, the Hawks should go ahead and give him at least that money, in order to keep any animosity developing between he and the organization.

 

JC value is at its peak right now. Once he signs that new contract, his value instantly changes and for good. 

JC gonna have to be much better to be a key piece a KAT trade.

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