Solo vs. Cam.

[Diesel]

There's a lot of Agendas to getting Cam on the court and a lot of people pointing at Solo's minutes as being not needed.

Let me point out...

Solo didn't play badly in game 3.  He's not a scorer but this guy rebounds and he plays decent defense.   For Spot duty... I don't mind him being out there.   I think his offensive counterpart Snell should see some time. 

The big Habla about Cam is that he can get back on the court again.   When Cam played in Game 2 (before the 4th quarter) I was not impressed with him on the defensive side of the ball.  He missed opps to double down on Giannis.  He got ran by by Holliday.   His offense was nothing.  When the 4th quarter came around, he Looked good... against the end of Milwaukee's Bench.   I think Me, Northcyde, and LadyJ would look good against them.   Here's the thing...

coming off of injury (especially as long as his was), there is an awareness that he has to rebuild.   First is basketball speed.  Second is Team play...  Third is Awareness. 

Does that mean that Cam shouldn't play?  No... but for all of you saying that he should start over Bogi... I say No Way.   IF Bogi is 80%, I say he starts and plays the first half of the first quarter and then we evaluate from there.   If I'm not, I ask Bogi to give me all he has and if he's showing that he's not doing good by midfirst.. yeah replace him.  Let him sit for the rest of the night... but starting Bogi gives us continuity.   But when Bogi starts raining airballs and bricks.. get him out and let him sit out a few quarters.   

Who do you replace him with?  A rotation of Snell & Cam.   And by the same token, we have to evaluate Snell and Cam also. 

The point is that we may not ever get this close again.  This is not a given that we will play in the ECF again.  So while we are here we have to not rely on  play our best lineups first.  At this time.. anything with Cam is just an experiment. 

 

[AHF]

I thought Solo absolutely played badly in Game 3.  Do agree with you about pushing Bogi to the bench if he is cold.  Also, agree with you about Cam coming off the bench and doing the same thing - if Cam is playing well extend his run.  If he is struggling, then pull him faster.  He should come in with a limited and well defined role on offense - that is not his strength to begin with but asking him to do too much would be a mistake, imo, unless he is just having a Middleton en fuego night.  Also like the idea of seeing Snell can hit a few 3's to provide better impact that Solo has done.  Snell is never going to be a big volume guy but he has 5 straight seasons of 40+ shooting from 3pt range.  He should not be shooting 1-10 in the playoffs like he is now.  (Conversely, Solo has been a subpar shooter for all his career so his struggles are no big surprise.)

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Diesel, do your research on Solo. He doesn't rebound at all. And his shooting percentages in the playoffs are atrocious.

What Cam brings, is a lot more skill, athleticism and energy.

Even if he shoots horribly, he still has the potential to make plays in other areas of the game.

All of Solo's numbers and metrics are very poor. ALL of them.

Cam literally represents the only wild card we have left to play. Unless there is some risk of injury to him, we have nothing to lose by giving him 20+ minutes in the next game.

[LucastheThird]

Cam played his first minutes in 4 months and guarded All-Star/Olympic level talent and only looked a step slow.

 

Solo has been playing all year and still looks horrible.

 

We know Cam can play better with more minutes and getting his game legs back, Solo is what he is.

[DieHardHAWK]

Besides a good rebound here and there and a sprinkle of defense, Solo has been straight garbage. Wide open bricks, stupid fouls, fake intense defense....He must be looking like Dominique during practice for Nate to have so much trust and faith in him  

[Dnice]

Or, Nate/Solo vs Cam...

[AHF]

50 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Cam literally represents the only wild card we have left to play. Unless there is some risk of injury to him, we have nothing to lose by giving him 20+ minutes in the next game.

He really is a wild card and ordinarily I would be fully behind Nate being cautious with Cam because a wild card means he could have big impact positively or negatively and you just don't know for sure what you are going to get.  With Hunter and healthy Bogi that would make perfect sense.  

But we are down Hunter.  Bogi is hurt.  Trae is hurt.  We need that wildcard for the chance that it turns into a big positive because we need something to swing the game if Trae doesn't come back near 100%.  Ankle injuries rarely allow for that and  his burst and floater have been his best weapon this post-season.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

25 minutes ago, DieHardHAWK said:

Besides a good rebound here and there and a sprinkle of defense, Solo has been straight garbage. Wide open bricks, stupid fouls, fake intense defense....He must be looking like Dominique during practice for Nate to have so much trust and faith in him  

Solo averages 5.1 rebs per 36 minutes in the regular season.   4.7 rebs per 36 minutes in the playoffs.

Trae Young is at 4.3 and 4.2 respectively.

Solo rebounds like a guard.  That's not good, when he's playing SF and PF on occasion.

[DieHardHAWK]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Solo averages 5.1 rebs per 36 minutes in the regular season.   4.7 rebs per 36 minutes in the playoffs.

Trae Young is at 4.3 and 4.2 respectively.

Solo rebounds like a guard.  That's not good, when he's playing SF and PF on occasion.

Here and there meant 2 for his total last night....I was trying to be nice but get his ass off the floor!!!!

[Cwell]

Regardless of how inconsistent Cam's jumper is. No team is gonna ignore him in the corner while his defender plays free safety on the other 3 guys when Trae is passing out of a trap/double team. That's what they do to Solo. Solo can't create. Cam can. Solo is not going to the foul line. Cam can. Solo can't guard anybody. Cam can. Solo does nothing well on a basketball court. Cam can do anything on a basketball court. whether he does it or not is still better than a guy that is a complete negative in all aspects of the game whenever he touches the court. Solo is not an NBA player

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Diesel, do your research on Solo. He doesn't rebound at all. And his shooting percentages in the playoffs are atrocious.

What Cam brings, is a lot more skill, athleticism and energy.

Even if he shoots horribly, he still has the potential to make plays in other areas of the game.

All of Solo's numbers and metrics are very poor. ALL of them.

Cam literally represents the only wild card we have left to play. Unless there is some risk of injury to him, we have nothing to lose by giving him 20+ minutes in the next game.

It's the eye test with Solo.  The eye test specifically in this series.  Last series I thought Solo had no place on the floor.  This series, I see that he's not going to screw things up...He comes in.. he has grabbed some boards he has positioned himself on defense. I'm not saying that Solo should get 35 minutes.  Hell, not even 15.. but I don't think him on the floor is a waste.  He's a good energy guy who does decently.   We don't have much in the way of replacing him with.   We may end up seeing more of Dunn.... which I don't have a problem with.   I would like to see more of Snell and more of Cam but neither should be a starter. 

With Cam or Anybody.. I would say you play more when you show more.   20+ Minutes  after not having played for 5 months... is not a good plan in my opinion.  Start him with 10 and let's evaluate.

[TheTruth]

16 minutes ago, Cwell said:

Solo does nothing well on a basketball court.  

This is patently and unequivocally false - he gives a mean shoulder bump with the best of 'em!

So, 

 

In all seriousness, dude is what I leave on the curb every Wednesday and Sunday for the city to haul away...trash.

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, TheTruth said:

This is patently and unequivocally false - he gives a mean shoulder bump with the best of 'em!

So, 

 

In all seriousness, dude is what I leave on the curb every Wednesday and Sunday for the city to haul away...trash.

That's just mean.

I disagree a bit.   We need people not afraid to position themselves under Giannis.   I watched How the Bucks lost to the Raptors in 2019.  It was that the Raptors didn't mind getting in Giannis way early i.e. before he got the ball.   Part of Giannis is still a Euroballer.   This is the difference between him and Embiid.   Whereas Embiid will run you over for a score (unless he's flopping).. Giannis will politely try to go around you.   You aggravate Giannis by getting close to his personal space before he can get the ball and make a move.   Once he gets going downhill, he's agile enough to get anywhere he wants to .  I asked the other day who can be our Claw.  But the real question is not our claw offensively.. not even defensively.. but who can be that guy who disrespects Giannis personal space....

That's right... The Bumpmaster Solo. 

 

[JeffS17]

12 minutes ago, Diesel said:

It's the eye test with Solo.  The eye test specifically in this series.  Last series I thought Solo had no place on the floor.  This series, I see that he's not going to screw things up...He comes in.. he has grabbed some boards he has positioned himself on defense. I'm not saying that Solo should get 35 minutes.  Hell, not even 15.. but I don't think him on the floor is a waste.  He's a good energy guy who does decently.   We don't have much in the way of replacing him with.   We may end up seeing more of Dunn.... which I don't have a problem with.   I would like to see more of Snell and more of Cam but neither should be a starter. 

With Cam or Anybody.. I would say you play more when you show more.   20+ Minutes  after not having played for 5 months... is not a good plan in my opinion.  Start him with 10 and let's evaluate.

Solo is not a threat to score and severely hampers us on that end.  As much credit as Middleton deserves for going supernova in the 4th last night, we lost because we had zero offense.  We scored 18 in the quarter... I wouldn't mind Cam getting some Bogi minutes either with how bad he looks shooting, but the reality is we have to have Bogi out there because without his offense, we can't win.  Trae cannot score 50 every night and Jrue wears him down over the game (and now he's going to be playing through injury).  We need athletic guys on defense -- their team is so much longer and more athletic than us the game is coming too easy for them.

Playing Solo over Cam imo is throwing the towel in for the series for a guy that Nate clearly favors and respect on and off the court, but it's not going to be winning basketball.  

[Cwell]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

That's just mean.

I disagree a bit.   We need people not afraid to position themselves under Giannis.   I watched How the Bucks lost to the Raptors in 2019.  It was that the Raptors didn't mind getting in Giannis way early i.e. before he got the ball.   Part of Giannis is still a Euroballer.   This is the difference between him and Embiid.   Whereas Embiid will run you over for a score (unless he's flopping).. Giannis will politely try to go around you.   You aggravate Giannis by getting close to his personal space before he can get the ball and make a move.   Once he gets going downhill, he's agile enough to get anywhere he wants to .  I asked the other day who can be our Claw.  But the real question is not our claw offensively.. not even defensively.. but who can be that guy who disrespects Giannis personal space....

That's right... The Bumpmaster Solo. 

 

who cares if he's not afraid if he's not going to do it. You can't stay in front of someone while constantly reaching in like a child and putting yourself completely out of position. Great defenders only reach at the most opportune times, they don't just spam the slot machine  and pray like Solo and John do.

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Solo is not a threat to score and severely hampers us on that end.  As much credit as Middleton deserves for going supernova in the 4th last night, we lost because we had zero offense.  We scored 18 in the quarter... I wouldn't mind Cam getting some Bogi minutes either with how bad he looks shooting, but the reality is we have to have Bogi out there because without his offense, we can't win.  Trae cannot score 50 every night and Jrue wears him down over the game (and now he's going to be playing through injury).  We need athletic guys on defense -- their team is so much longer and more athletic than us the game is coming too easy for them.

Playing Solo over Cam imo is throwing the towel in for the series for a guy that Nate clearly favors and respect on and off the court, but it's not going to be winning basketball.  

When Cam played against starters, he didn't score either.   But that's an argument for another time.   I want to talk about what's in Red. 

 

After watching how we play.. I would say that a good 70-80% of our offense is Trae produced.   I believe that somebody can find some polish stat that can give you the exact percentage but when Trae got hurt and when he came in and made that horrid pass.. it was going to be a rough ride offensively.   Lemon Pepper actually looked better than Trae at that moment. 

 

[AHF]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Solo averages 5.1 rebs per 36 minutes in the regular season.   4.7 rebs per 36 minutes in the playoffs.

Trae Young is at 4.3 and 4.2 respectively.

Solo rebounds like a guard.  That's not good, when he's playing SF and PF on occasion.

In fairness to Solo, I do have to point out that Cam averaged 5.0 rebs per 36 so it isn't something where the numbers indicate we are likely to see a big difference in rebounding between the 5.1 Solo and 5.0 Cam.  (Cam was also 5.0/36 as a rookie).

[capstone21]

Just now, AHF said:

In fairness to Solo, I do have to point out that Cam averaged 5.0 rebs per 36 so it isn't something where the numbers indicate we are likely to see a big difference in rebounding between the 5.1 Solo and 5.0 Cam.  (Cam was also 5.0/36 as a rookie).

Cam was mostly playing guard and a little while Solo was a 4/3 ... Solo is more willing to bang with the big boys though

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, capstone21 said:

Cam was mostly playing guard and a little while Solo was a 4/3 ... Solo is more willing to bang with the big boys though

Honestly.. when Solo is on the court, I don't know what position he plays.  I say the same about Red Velvet. 

Our team positions are kinda fluid because we line up everybody on the perimeter at some point or another (except Clint/OO).  With that fluidity in offense, most rebounds are going to be away from the basket and not at the basket.  That's why I believe Capela led the league in rebounds.   He's not Rodman.. but offensively he's the only person inside and defensively he's good enough to get rebounds. 

That's why I like to see JC crashing the boards.   He should do it every play.

 

[warcore]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

Solo didn't play badly in game 3.

You lost me here.