1 Injury ruined our Run.....

[Diesel]

So far Phoenix is proving that Milwaukee with Giannis on the floor is easier to beat than when he is off the floor.

A lot of people pin our lost unto

1. Capela not being able to defend everybody.
2. JC having moments of disappearance on offense. 
3. Trae's Foot. 
4.  K'Von's disappearance. 
5. LWill's up and down. 
6. Solo's Minutes. 

However, I believe that the biggest factor in us losing was Giannis going out. 

Giannis doesn't know how to get others involved.   So when he's on the floor, the other players just stop and stare.  Yeah, they go through the motions,  but if he's having a big game, more than likely, the rest of them are not.  He sucks up the post.   So that there's no Lopez and Portis is diminished.   He blows free throws.  He's an excellent stat guy but he's not a team guy. 

I said it before, when he went out, they were able to find their 5 man game and their 5 men were better than ours. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I think the biggest issue with the Bucks, is that they don't let the PG run the team.  Holiday needs to be the decision maker, not Giannis, because he's more than likely just going to get his own shot.  A very high percentage one, but his own shot nonetheless.

Giannis could probably still get his numbers even with Holiday pulling the trigger on offense.

But this is why people question if Bud is really a great coach or not.  He's "good", but not "great".

[Peoriabird]

They lost that 2nd game because Middleton and Holiday were garbage!

[RedDawg#8]

I can agree with this. You replace Giannis, a non shooter, with Portis and all of a sudden you have to defend the entire halfcourt. No more sagging off and helping in the lane, everyone becomes a threat if left open.

[sturt]

I'm all for unique perspectives, and I'm not immune to the occasional one.

But I just can't buy-in to any perspective/theory that doesn't embrace the idea that (a) having a healthy Trae would have been the difference for us, and (b) having a healthy Dre might have been the difference for us, and (c) having both would have made us impossible for MIL to stop.

[TheTruth]

30 minutes ago, sturt said:

I'm all for unique perspectives, and I'm not immune to the occasional one.

But I just can't buy-in to any perspective/theory that doesn't embrace the idea that (a) having a healthy Trae would have been the difference for us, and (b) having a healthy Dre might have been the difference for us, and (c) having both would have made us impossible for MIL to stop.

I think it's a combination of your take and Diesel's. We were constantly overmatched by Milwaukee's Giannis-less lineups. Even without Trae due to AnkleGate, OO's emergence defensively on him in Game 4, along with Cam's defensively play, gave me hope to pull it out in 7.

There is no doubt in my mind, however, that had we had a fully healthy Trae and Hunter all series going against a fully healthy Bucks team, we would have gotten past the Bucks. 

 

[sturt]

PMd you, @TheTruth.

[Diesel]

5 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

They lost that 2nd game because Middleton and Holiday were garbage!

Middleton and Holiday become garbage when Giannis has his biggest games.   Look at our series.  Game 1.  Middleton and Holiday were garbage.   I don't know if it's the knowledge that they have to step up or the missing black hole, but when Giannis goes down (Not out for a breather) their offense becomes a 5 man offense and those garbage players become allstars. 

 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, sturt said:

I'm all for unique perspectives, and I'm not immune to the occasional one.

But I just can't buy-in to any perspective/theory that doesn't embrace the idea that (a) having a healthy Trae would have been the difference for us, and (b) having a healthy Dre might have been the difference for us, and (c) having both would have made us impossible for MIL to stop.

I will speak to the healthy Dre'.   Our defense (as elementary as it was) is about switching.   We had a constant switch off of the dribble drive.  That switch involved Capela or OO stepping up to stop the drive and JC rotating over to cover OO or Capela's man.... and leaving the harder perimeter shot open.  The problem became... Milwaukee took advantage of the mismatch of Brook Lopez/JC   Brook Lopez/Gallo swtich.  Honestly, most of the time, Gallo never switched.   It made it look like Lopez was dominating our bigs.  The truth is that Holiday was dominating our bigs. 

This was the case in all three playoff games and we played it differently each time.   In the first series, we let Rose drive and everybody stayed home.   Rose had big games but we controlled the scoring of their bigs and their perimeter players.   This is why Randle looked God awful from outside.   Prior to the series, Randle had wide open shots when Rose passed out.   When everybody stayed home and Bogi or Dre' picked up Rose, it really hurt NY's perimeter attack and they were never able to get their inside game working.

In the Philly series, it was the same thing run a different way.  Simmons was not allowed to run the offense, instead the offense went through Embiid.   So we manned up on Embiid... Everytime we doubled him, he was able to find the open man.  Usually Curry.  The main problem we had in that game is that Clint didn't matchup well with Embiid and needed a double.   We couldn't play Embiid man on man otherwise nobody would have gotten open looks.  The other thing that Philly did was they cleared out the C so that Embiid could work down low... this was a problem for Simmons because he can't hit an outside shot.  That's why when Maxy and Milton came in, they were able to have big games because when they replaced Simmons, now Embiid has one more shooter that he can throw the ball to and there was really nobody for Trae to guard. 

Fortunately for us... Simmons makes to much to sit him on the bench.  But had Dre' been in the game, Curry would not have gotten open looks and we would have put a cap on Harris. 

That takes us to Milwaukee.  A hurt Bogi can't guard anybody that can move.  We put a hurt Bogi in front of Holiday.  If Dre were out there, Dre' would have played him.   Cam locked down Middleton.   Had we had Cam locking down Middleton and Dre' locking down Jrue... there would have been an easy win because our defense wouldn't have had to shift out of position everytime Jrue dribble drove. 

I agree that Trae couldn't have stopped the bleeding defensively... but offensively, Trae could have given us more control (IF the refs had not swallowed their whistles).   It's shameful but by game 6, the refs had decided that they were not going to call fouls when Trae baited somebody to foul him.   First play of the game, Trae gets Portis in the air and made contact on a three point shot.... NO Call.  No Whistle.  Trae loses the ball and the ref and the ball are going the other way.    That was a clear indication that they were no longer calling the game down the line but that they were pointing out Trae and making sure that he doesn't control the game.   At which point, you're no longer playing basketball, you are letting the refs choose who wins the game. 

[Peoriabird]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

Middleton and Holiday become garbage when Giannis has his biggest games.   Look at our series.  Game 1.  Middleton and Holiday were garbage.   I don't know if it's the knowledge that they have to step up or the missing black hole, but when Giannis goes down (Not out for a breather) their offense becomes a 5 man offense and those garbage players become allstars. 

 

It isn't Giannis' fault that these guys missed shot after shot.  Lay up after lay up.  That's like blaming Capela's blown bunnies on Trae.

[Diesel]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

It isn't Giannis' fault that these guys miss shot after shot.  Lay up after lay up.  That's like blaming Capela's blown bunnies on Trae.

No... I don't blame Giannis for their missing.... but....  Basketball is about momentum for a lot of players.  What I mean is that if you give a player consistent minutes and consistent looks, then they will give you consistent scoring.   There's a clear psychology in Game 2 that a lot of people missed.   Jrue came out trying to get himself going.   He took what... 9 shots in the first quarter.   That's not because he's a ball hog... He came to realize that the longer he sat and watched Giannis work, the colder he became and the worse off he would be when they needed him down the stretch. 

There's only a few players who can come into a game Warm...  Vinny the microwave is a historical note... but in modern day.. Lou Will and Gallo are two guys who can do it.  But not many others (TBH)... 

For long stretches when Giannis is scoring, you don't get any points from Middleton.  He's not the kind of player that doesn't need to "see the ball go in" to get him going.   However, once Middleton finds his shot... you can't stop him... (eh.. Game 2).   

This is where there's a problem with Giannis.   Giannis is not Lebron in that Giannis doesn't know how to get other guys going while he's scoring. 

Somebody else said it perfectly in another post...   Milwaukee isn't a team that is run by the PG.   This is the problem.  Bud is still doing that whoever got the ball shit.   Well, that hurts because your superstar doesn't get others involved enough for them to be counted on later when it counts.   Giannis needs to go and watch footage of Embiid.   Embiid is the most dangerous Big man in the game.  IF he ever got into Basketball shape, he would be an unstoppable force.  His vision is impeccable.   His timing is great. He can score from a lot of places... even three.. But most of all, he knows how to get others involved. 

Us beating Philly was truly David beating Goliath. 

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

No... I don't blame Giannis for their missing.... but....  Basketball is about momentum for a lot of players.  What I mean is that if you give a player consistent minutes and consistent looks, then they will give you consistent scoring.   There's a clear psychology in Game 2 that a lot of people missed.   Jrue came out trying to get himself going.   He took what... 9 shots in the first quarter.   That's not because he's a ball hog... He came to realize that the longer he sat and watched Giannis work, the colder he became and the worse off he would be when they needed him down the stretch. 

There's only a few players who can come into a game Warm...  Vinny the microwave is a historical note... but in modern day.. Lou Will and Gallo are two guys who can do it.  But not many others (TBH)... 

For long stretches when Giannis is scoring, you don't get any points from Middleton.  He's not the kind of player that doesn't need to "see the ball go in" to get him going.   However, once Middleton finds his shot... you can't stop him... (eh.. Game 2).   

This is where there's a problem with Giannis.   Giannis is not Lebron in that Giannis doesn't know how to get other guys going while he's scoring. 

Somebody else said it perfectly in another post...   Milwaukee isn't a team that is run by the PG.   This is the problem.  Bud is still doing that whoever got the ball shit.   Well, that hurts because your superstar doesn't get others involved enough for them to be counted on later when it counts.   Giannis needs to go and watch footage of Embiid.   Embiid is the most dangerous Big man in the game.  IF he ever got into Basketball shape, he would be an unstoppable force.  His vision is impeccable.   His timing is great. He can score from a lot of places... even three.. But most of all, he knows how to get others involved. 

Us beating Philly was truly David beating Goliath. 

Kinda of a strange analysis seeing that Middleton played 41 minutes and Holiday played 39 minutes.  Holiday took 21 shots and Middleton took 16 all early in the game and both were missing badly.  Giannis took 22 shots and played fewer minutes than Middleton. 

[hawkman]

6 hours ago, sturt said:

I'm all for unique perspectives, and I'm not immune to the occasional one.

But I just can't buy-in to any perspective/theory that doesn't embrace the idea that (a) having a healthy Trae would have been the difference for us, and (b) having a healthy Dre might have been the difference for us, and (c) having both would have made us impossible for MIL to stop.

I agree 100% with this. I'll go even further. Heck, you can argue that with a relatively healthy team throughout the Playoffs (Hunter, Cam, Bogi, and Trae) the Hawks win the Championship this season. The Knicks would've been swept. The Philly series would've been Hawks in 5 or 6 maximum. The Bucks series would've been Hawks in 5 or 6 maximum, Giannis injured or healthy. The same with the Suns. Of course, I'm not objective at all but I also don't feel like I'm being a total homer by believing that. Even without Hunter, imagine Trae being 100% plus the bonus of having Cam back on the perimeter during the ECF. The Hawks win that series in 6 games. The Hawks were literally one freak accident (Trae's injury) away from playing in the Finals this season. 

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Kinda of a strange analysis seeing that Middleton played 41 minutes and Holiday played 39 minutes.  Holiday took 21 shots and Middleton took 16 all early in the game and both were missing badly.  Giannis took 22 shots and played fewer minutes than Middleton. 

Being on the floor does not mean that you have been used in a way to get you going.   Middleton is being defended well.   However, Holiday has not been running the offense and his best offense is when Giannis is out of the lane and Holiday can drive.  Holiday is a great player going to the basket terrible at shooting a standstill jumper;  A great player posting up and a terrible player trying to hit a three.   When Giannis is in, Holiday is trying to do those things that he's terrible at.  Hell, I will give him 48 minutes of doing that because I know in the end, he will score maybe 12 points and have a horrible game.   If they had a coach who was a PG first guy, the team would play a lot better. 

[HawkingAwesome]

i wish it were the hawks that got jrue

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, HawkingAwesome said:

i wish it were the hawks that got jrue

What would a Hawks trade look like to you?

This was what the Bucks gave up:

Eric Bledsoe, George Hill, three future first-round picks, and two additional Draft pick swaps

 

[Peoriabird]

On 7/10/2021 at 1:37 PM, Diesel said:

Middleton and Holiday become garbage when Giannis has his biggest games.  

 

Theory debunked tonight!

[AHF]

Giannis is a superstar and is absolutely the best thing to happen to Milwaukee basketball since Lew Alcinder.  The offense can flow a bit better when he is off the floor at times but without Giannis they are a much weaker team.  

The injuries that ruined our playoff runs were Hunter going out and:

[StonedDogs]

A healthy Hawks vs a healthy Bucks. Bucks are pulling off the win because Collins and Capela were defensive liabilities, they were too small, couldn't rebound, Collins would shrink. Also Trae doesn't play defense so the defense breaks down on Trae leading to anyone wide open. On top of Trae poor ill-advised threes at the wrong time. He can't help it. Chris Paul is a true floor general. Morant is a floor general. Curry is under control with his shot selection. Trae and the young Hawks have to learn collective defense, rebounding and proper ball movement. Playoffs exposed all of it

[nathan2331]

9 minutes ago, StonedDogs said:

A healthy Hawks vs a healthy Bucks. Bucks are pulling off the win because Collins and Capela were defensive liabilities, they were too small, couldn't rebound, Collins would shrink. Also Trae doesn't play defense so the defense breaks down on Trae leading to anyone wide open. On top of Trae poor ill-advised threes at the wrong time. He can't help it. Chris Paul is a true floor general. Morant is a floor general. Curry is under control with his shot selection. Trae and the young Hawks have to learn collective defense, rebounding and proper ball movement. Playoffs exposed all of it

I disagree with most of what you're saying. While Trae was healthy, the Bucks only dominated us in Game 2. Game 3 we would have won if Trae doesn't get injured. If Trae and Hunter are healthy, the Bucks switching everything on defense becomes a lot less effective considering those 2 punish mismatches better than anyone on the team. While Collins was disappointing, he didn't shrink. he averaged 9.8 rebounds against the Bucks and was efficient even though his 3 point shot was not falling. Defensively he wasn't effective, but he didn't sink us either. Our biggest problem rebounding against the Bucks was that our wings and guards were getting outmatched on the boards. Collins and Capela were lackluster, but the Bucks are a great team for a reason. Everybody won't look great playing against a good team.

The Hawks didn't get "exposed", we got outplayed by a Bucks team that had Holiday and Middleton step up when called upon. Considering all the injuries we had, it was a good showing. Obviously we need to be better, but who doesn't.