Suns too Small

[AHF]

6 hours ago, marco102 said:

I  may be misinterpreting this, but some said that the Bucks were easier to defend with Giannis on the court.  Without him, Jrue and Middleton got way more aggressive because the lane wasn't as clogged and exposed the Hawks perimeter defense much more without Giannis as the offense was being run through him.

 

Two things on this: 

First, there is no question that Jrue and Middleton got more aggressive when Giannis went out.

Second, it is super obvious they were also a much worse team without Giannis.  They didn't have a prayer of winning a title without him.  He is their best player by a huge margin.

So there isn't much a through line on that from the first observation to the second.  I.e., the Magic and Lakers probably saw higher production from their guards who could take the ball to the hole when Shaq was out but they obviously were a much better team with Shaq.  Same with the Bucks.  Giannis is the primary reason they were contenders in the first place and if he doesn't recover then they lose to us if Trae doesn't get hurt and lose to the Suns if they get by us.

[marco102]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Two things on this: 

First, there is no question that Jrue and Middleton got more aggressive when Giannis went out.

Second, it is super obvious they were also a much worse team without Giannis.  They didn't have a prayer of winning a title without him.  He is their best player by a huge margin.

So there isn't much a through line on that from the first observation to the second.  I.e., the Magic and Lakers probably saw higher production from their guards who could take the ball to the hole when Shaq was out but they obviously were a much better team with Shaq.  Same with the Bucks.  Giannis is the primary reason they were contenders in the first place and if he doesn't recover then they lose to us if Trae doesn't get hurt and lose to the Suns if they get by us.

Yes, but my overall point was no one was saying the Bucks were better without him. The Hawks were able to defend the Bucks better with him on the court than without him, but that doesn't mean the Bucks are better without Giannis.

[macdaddy]

I'm a little late to this discussion but we have to get away from the idea that we need a '7-footer'.   For one, with required accurate measurements there aren't that many good 7 footers in the league and a big chunk of the ones that are truly that big are guys who would rather be around the perimeter.  

Brook Lopez played 1 minute in the 4th quarter in a championship game.   Not that he didn't have a good game but the most valuable guys in crunch time are the versatile bigs who work their asses off.   Like the 6'8" Portis and Tucker.    We've already got those guys in JC and OO.   I wouldn't mind having a guy like Lopez too but i'm not spending a bunch of money on  him. 

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

Yes, but my overall point was no one was saying the Bucks were better without him. The Hawks were able to defend the Bucks better with him on the court than without him, but that doesn't mean the Bucks are better without Giannis.

What if a Bucks fan said the Hawks are easier to defend without Trae after game 4? It's a reactionary take based on a small sample size. 

[marco102]

37 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

What if a Bucks fan said the Hawks are easier to defend without Trae after game 4? It's a reactionary take based on a small sample size. 

I wouldn't care.  Casuse fanatics think and say crazy things. No idea why you think fans should be reasonable.  The actual definition of a fan is not to be reasonable. 

I never said the above by they way, I was explaining what some were saying. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

What if a Bucks fan said the Hawks are easier to defend without Trae after game 4? It's a reactionary take based on a small sample size. 

It would also be not true.   Because we don't have players that step up when Trae goes out.   Lemon Pepper didn't.   Dunn Didn't.   Kev Didn't. 

However, when Giannis went out... Jrue became super freaking man.  Instead of 1 target... he had 4.  He fed Brook Lopez as Default.. but he also fed Portis.  He also fed Middleton... everybody was eating.  When Giannis is on the floor, Giannis eats.  That's how he gets 50 points in a game.  He keeps eating.  What did Portis get in that same game??  Remember, Portis didn't even see the court against Brooklyn.  Crazy Eyes became a star against us.   Lopez looked like Lopez of old.   Why.. because once Jrue had us backing up... He had Lopez for the Backdoor lob,.... same shit that Trae does with Clint. 

 

So... yeah.. Trae going out takes away all of our offense. 

Giannis going out.. takes away one way that they play the game... but offers another. 

 

 

 

[AHF]

4 hours ago, marco102 said:

Yes, but my overall point was no one was saying the Bucks were better without him. The Hawks were able to defend the Bucks better with him on the court than without him, but that doesn't mean the Bucks are better without Giannis.

Maybe my memory is deceiving me but I thought I saw some arguing that the Hawks only lost to the Bucks because Giannis got injured as it led to them playing better than they played with him.  Am I remembering that wrong?  

If they were an 8 this season, when Giannis went out the others guys stepped up to have them playing at a 6.  Obvious downgrade.  Not sure what else it could mean for the Hawks to be "unlucky" that the Bucks lost him.

[marco102]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

Maybe my memory is deceiving me but I thought I saw some arguing that the Hawks only lost to the Bucks because Giannis got injured as it led to them playing better than they played with him.  Am I remembering that wrong?  

If they were an 8 this season, when Giannis went out the others guys stepped up to have them playing at a 6.  Obvious downgrade.  Not sure what else it could mean for the Hawks to be "unlucky" that the Bucks lost him.

Oh maybe a few did. I initially read his comments that most were saying that. I don't put crazy comments past anyone including myself..lol

I said no one in my comment, but I was meaning most. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by marco102

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Maybe my memory is deceiving me but I thought I saw some arguing that the Hawks only lost to the Bucks because Giannis got injured as it led to them playing better than they played with him.  Am I remembering that wrong?  

If they were an 8 this season, when Giannis went out the others guys stepped up to have them playing at a 6.  Obvious downgrade.  Not sure what else it could mean for the Hawks to be "unlucky" that the Bucks lost him.

I said that had Trae and Giannis not got hurt, we would have beat them.   Giannis was not the same guy that played Phoenix.   Remember... the cold sweats when he went to the FT line.   We were going to Ben Simmons him... then the ref with the feet of stone showed up. 

 

[AHF]

20 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I said that had Trae and Giannis not got hurt, we would have beat them.   Giannis was not the same guy that played Phoenix.   Remember... the cold sweats when he went to the FT line.   We were going to Ben Simmons him... then the ref with the feet of stone showed up. 

 

I just don't see the Ben Simmons comparison.  Simmons was weak and backed down when we sent him to the line and he missed.  Guys like Wilt, Shaq, Giannis, etc. may have a terrible night from the line but they aren't backing down and they will keep going at you with their superstar talent.  There is a reason the guy who literally spawned the "hack-a-Shaq" ended up with 4 nba championship rings.

[JayBirdHawk]

24 minutes ago, Diesel said:

We were going to Ben Simmons him...

Not even close. Ben is a RELUCTANT scorer/shooter - not so with Giannis. Even with bad freethrow shootee, Giannis isn't afraid.

[bleachkit]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

It would also be not true.   Because we don't have players that step up when Trae goes out.   Lemon Pepper didn't.   Dunn Didn't.   Kev Didn't. 

However, when Giannis went out... Jrue became super freaking man.  Instead of 1 target... he had 4.  He fed Brook Lopez as Default.. but he also fed Portis.  He also fed Middleton... everybody was eating.  When Giannis is on the floor, Giannis eats.  That's how he gets 50 points in a game.  He keeps eating.  What did Portis get in that same game??  Remember, Portis didn't even see the court against Brooklyn.  Crazy Eyes became a star against us.   Lopez looked like Lopez of old.   Why.. because once Jrue had us backing up... He had Lopez for the Backdoor lob,.... same shit that Trae does with Clint. 

 

So... yeah.. Trae going out takes away all of our offense. 

Giannis going out.. takes away one way that they play the game... but offers another. 

 

 

 

Portis had 16 last night. He was solid. When Giannis is in the game, you have to defend Giannis. And as you saw last night, you can just foul him, he can hit free throws when he gets in a rhythm. He also has a huge impact on defense. We just got smoked game 5 and game 6. Both wire to wire wins. In that moment we had to rise to the occasion, but we didn't as they are the better team. And now champions. As much as we like to knock coach Bud, the man coached his ass off in these playoffs. His teams lost early games in some these series, they didn't lose late those series, overcoming several 0-2 deficits to the Nets and the Suns. He was making the right adjustments and pushing the right buttons. 

[RandomFan]

9 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

Bucks in Milwaukee are pretty unbeatable. Remember how they made us look in game two with Trae healthy. Sometimes you acknowledge the other team is just better. 

I notice you failed to mention game 1 when our Hawks walked in and put the smack down on their head. It's highly debatable if they are the better team if Ttae and Hunter are healthy, so no, zero reason to acknowledge they are just better man. 

[Atlantaholic]

Just now, RandomFan said:

I notice you failed to mention game 1 when our Hawks walked in and put the smack down on their head. It's highly debatable if they are the better team if Ttae and Hunter are healthy, so no, zero reason to acknowledge they are just better man. 

Well, they were like 9-1 at home in the playoffs with an average margin of victory of like +16, it took a monumental performance from Trae Young to steal that one loss. And I never said the Hawks being 100% healthy wouldn't be able to beat the Bucks... just that the Hawks in that Bucks series were easily not the better team, Khris Middleton and Jrue Holliday were better than anyone on the Hawks the last two games, and it's not close. And there is no shame in that the Bucks were easily the best team in the NBA this season and they proved it by handling a blazing hot Suns team in 6. Jrue, Kris and Giannis played all around incredible basketball, and then you have depth behind that. 

[RandomFan]

3 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Well, they were like 9-1 at home in the playoffs with an average margin of victory of like +16, it took a monumental performance from Trae Young to steal that one loss. And I never said the Hawks being 100% healthy wouldn't be able to beat the Bucks... just that the Hawks in that Bucks series were easily not the better team, Khris Middleton and Jrue Holliday were better than anyone on the Hawks the last two games, and it's not close. And there is no shame in that the Bucks were easily the best team in the NBA this season and they proved it by handling a blazing hot Suns team in 6. Jrue, Kris and Giannis played all around incredible basketball, and then you have depth behind that. 

Disagree completely about them being the better team. You act like Trae getting injured didn't completely change that series. 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Portis had 16 last night. He was solid. When Giannis is in the game, you have to defend Giannis. And as you saw last night, you can just foul him, he can hit free throws when he gets in a rhythm. He also has a huge impact on defense. We just got smoked game 5 and game 6. Both wire to wire wins. In that moment we had to rise to the occasion, but we didn't as they are the better team. And now champions. As much as we like to knock coach Bud, the man coached his ass off in these playoffs. His teams lost early games in some these series, they didn't lose late those series, overcoming several 0-2 deficits to the Nets and the Suns. He was making the right adjustments and pushing the right buttons. 

I love clowning Bud but his stubborn ass finally adjusted against Brooklyn, us, and PHX

[JTB]

10 hours ago, macdaddy said:

I'm a little late to this discussion but we have to get away from the idea that we need a '7-footer'.   For one, with required accurate measurements there aren't that many good 7 footers in the league and a big chunk of the ones that are truly that big are guys who would rather be around the perimeter.  

Brook Lopez played 1 minute in the 4th quarter in a championship game.   Not that he didn't have a good game but the most valuable guys in crunch time are the versatile bigs who work their asses off.   Like the 6'8" Portis and Tucker.    We've already got those guys in JC and OO.   I wouldn't mind having a guy like Lopez too but i'm not spending a bunch of money on  him. 

That’s fair but to say we don’t need a lengthy big I just disagree. Spend a little cap and add a McGee or Boban or someone.

we shouldn’t spend big money no but to just not add one at all I think is absurd.

I feel like we got beat by length and strength in the ECF. I don’t believe it was skills. Even with a healthy cam or Hunter I do agree it’s big help on the defense but I believe the bucks would have still pulled it out . We have a good big man rotation but sign a vet center to a small contract to add another big body I say. When the playoffs come around he’ll be useful….it’s not really a regular season move when the pace of the game is ridiculous.

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I love clowning Bud but his stubborn ass finally adjusted against Brooklyn, us, and PHX

He did and honestly he probably could have always adjust but like you said was just too damn stubborn.

[JTB]

2 hours ago, RandomFan said:

I notice you failed to mention game 1 when our Hawks walked in and put the smack down on their head. It's highly debatable if they are the better team if Ttae and Hunter are healthy, so no, zero reason to acknowledge they are just better man. 

We may be a more skilled team but even with Trae, cam, Hunter healthy they still held a length and strength advantage on us.

when I go back and look at how we lost even when Giannis and Trae were out we got beat mainly by being outmuscled. 
 

we don’t need to change anything just need to add one more big body who can get into the mix with Capela and Okungwu….then we’ll be set! I wish we could somehow get Robin Lopez but he’s likely too expensive.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

19 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Start of the Giannis dynasty. 

 

He can have 3 out of 4.  Just let us get at least 1.

[sillent]

12 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

Bucks in Milwaukee are pretty unbeatable. Remember how they made us look in game two with Trae healthy. Sometimes you acknowledge the other team is just better. 

I remember how we beat them in Milwaukee game 1. After that they should've beat us like they did but I can't say Trae didn't help them a bit with 9 turnovers. Mostly unforced