If Golden State is giving up Wiseman, the Hawks should be Listening.


Diesel
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36 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

True but picks and Wiggins isn’t enough to get that guy they want which is their second coming of Durant in Beal or someone else. It’s gonna take Wiseman  to make the impact they want. 

Wiggins is still a guy you have to pay someone to take.

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1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

In all fairness, I don't see Wiseman being shopped by Golden State unless they can land a star and even then, they are trying to move the picks and Wiggins, not Wiseman

Would be hard to get Wiseman. Other than Trae and Capella alot of young players who haven't reached star potential. I doubt the Hawks deal Capella right now with OO hurting. Wonder if theirs a way to send Collins and another to Warriors. Think they have cap problems though unfortunately.  

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1 hour ago, thescout said:

Would be hard to get Wiseman. Other than Trae and Capella alot of young players who haven't reached star potential. I doubt the Hawks deal Capella right now with OO hurting. Wonder if theirs a way to send Collins and another to Warriors. Think they have cap problems though unfortunately.  

This will be the 4th time I've said this in the last 2 weeks. You can't package players with a sign n trade player.

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4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

As someone who loves Okongwu, I still have my doubts on him being a 5 for us considering we need a paint protector at the 5 as well which Capela gives us 

I know you love Big O, but I have to point out I'm not sure why the bolded gets assumed that he can't provide. I think it's clear as day he's eventually going to be an even better paint protector than Clint. What gives? Height alone doesn't define a paint protector. Let's not forget Clint is only 6'10", not some 7'1" giant. There is more to being a paint protector than size, which Onyeka has enough of anyway with his huge wingspan and standing reach. 

Which reminds me to ask why some think Wiseman is always going to be a better rebounder than our OO? Again, a 6'10" Capela just lead the NBA in rebounds per game, in a league filled with many players taller than him. Rebounding isn't all about height either, so why assume Wiseman will be better at it than OO? Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but assuming he will at this stage is premature at best. 

I'm also less convinced Wiseman is going to have a greater offensive impact throughout his career. I do think he has an easier path to offensive success than Onyeka, but it's not like OO doesn't have the tools to eventually surpass Wiseman if OO reaches his full potential.  

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On 7/26/2021 at 7:23 PM, thecampster said:

This will be the 4th time I've said this in the last 2 weeks. You can't package players with a sign n trade player.

Sorry campster I just got on the board.

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7 hours ago, thescout said:

Sorry campster I just got on the board.

Most of my grumpiness is meant to head off trends, not to discourage new posters. Welcome to the board.

I blame myself really. I usual post a twice annual post meant to discourage posters from believing you can acquire a Westbrook for a Subway coupon book, 3 pesos and an animated GIF of a raccoon and a porcupine getting it on.

I forgot this year.

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I can be as crazy as some of these other wild trades.  Trae for Westbrook - both are on their rookie contracts so the salaries should work.

Why would they both do this?  Both would get exactly what they want, wouldn't they?  Never mind what they lose.  It works.  That's what really matters, isn't it.  After all, Westbrook is a young, truly big center with a great future and Young couldn't even make the NBA all star team so he can't be that good.

:hi:

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On 7/26/2021 at 6:38 PM, RandomFan said:

I know you love Big O, but I have to point out I'm not sure why the bolded gets assumed that he can't provide. I think it's clear as day he's eventually going to be an even better paint protector than Clint. What gives? Height alone doesn't define a paint protector. Let's not forget Clint is only 6'10", not some 7'1" giant. There is more to being a paint protector than size, which Onyeka has enough of anyway with his huge wingspan and standing reach. 

Which reminds me to ask why some think Wiseman is always going to be a better rebounder than our OO? Again, a 6'10" Capela just lead the NBA in rebounds per game, in a league filled with many players taller than him. Rebounding isn't all about height either, so why assume Wiseman will be better at it than OO? Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but assuming he will at this stage is premature at best. 

I'm also less convinced Wiseman is going to have a greater offensive impact throughout his career. I do think he has an easier path to offensive success than Onyeka, but it's not like OO doesn't have the tools to eventually surpass Wiseman if OO reaches his full potential.  

Oh, I actually think it is the opposite.  I think Onyeka has some inherent shooting ability that will allow him to space the floor at some point in his developmental arc.  He's already a very good pick and roll big.  Wiseman has shown some flashes of being a solid pick and roll big, but nothing he does offensively is consistent.  It's hard for me to envision seeing Wiseman spacing the floor.  I had Onyeka rated as the better prospect between the two because he's an infinitely better defender, and I believe he will be able to shoot it at some point.  

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18 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Oh, I actually think it is the opposite.  I think Onyeka has some inherent shooting ability that will allow him to space the floor at some point in his developmental arc.  He's already a very good pick and roll big.  Wiseman has shown some flashes of being a solid pick and roll big, but nothing he does offensively is consistent.  It's hard for me to envision seeing Wiseman spacing the floor.  I had Onyeka rated as the better prospect between the two because he's an infinitely better defender, and I believe he will be able to shoot it at some point.  

I will give you that his (Wiseman) Jumphook is trash.  He shoots it too often but if he gets it together, he will be very hard to stop.  However, he has a quality of facing up when pushed outside and either spinning his way to the basket or shooting the midrange shot.  His midrange shot is iffy.. he hits it more than his jumphook... but his spin move is good most of the time.  I would say 60-70%.  I know that defenders will eventually get the book on him and slow or stop the spin move.. but that's why his midrange becomes important.   The thing about his shot is that he has really good mechanics, so there's no need to believe that it won't get better. 

IMHO, Wiseman is a much better finisher than Onyeka.   It almost makes me drool to think what Trae can do with him in a PNR situ. He's a very fluid roller who can slip screens almost as good as JC.  JC is probably the best playing right now.   I recall somebody telling me earlier last season that JC's screen slipping was not important???  Until we fed that screen slip in the playoffs and made Trae a Monster. 

The place where Onyeka cannot contend with Wiseman (other than finishing) is just size.   7'1 with a 7'6" wingspan, athletic, and has good timing on shot blocks.   While Wiseman is not the defensive player that Onyeka is yet...  He has the tools to be better. 

Bottom line...  Onyeka  = High Floor.   Wiseman = High Ceiling. 

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15 minutes ago, ATLHawks3 said:

Objectively speaking, OO is better than Wiseman right now at everything except points per game, and that's only because of the volume of shots they both get.

 

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=okongon01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=wisemja01&p2yrfrom=2021

This is true so far.  This was never meant to be an OO vs. JW thread.  Hawks homers made it that to try to discredit Wiseman.  But in looking at the two, Wiseman will be better in the future if the continue the same path.  Everybody sees that except Hawks fans.  We get giddy because OO can guard Giannis better than Clint did.   OK... But Wiseman will have the same abilities as Giannis in a few short years. 

 

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I don’t think Wiseman is actually on the block.  Unless GSW are packaging him along with their first pick tomorrow I can’t see them moving him.  Even then I don’t think they are getting a stud player in return.

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1 minute ago, Alex said:

I don’t think Wiseman is actually on the block.  Unless GSW are packaging him along with their first pick tomorrow I can’t see them moving him.  

Agree.  I don't think he is moving.

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5 minutes ago, Alex said:

I don’t think Wiseman is actually on the block.  Unless GSW are packaging him along with their first pick tomorrow I can’t see them moving him.  Even then I don’t think they are getting a stud player in return.

 

I think there's an impetus for GS to do something.   They are the one team under a lot of pressure.  Steph's window is closing.   The three headed monster of Steph, Klay, and Green has this one time to show that they are still championship quality.   But they need that one extra player to be up with the top tiers.  Steph and Green did a Herculean effort last year and ended up out of the playoffs.  The quality of Klay's game is unknown.  These are things that they can't change.   I think in desperation, they are willing to part with the near future for one more shot.   It's been stated that they asked specifically for their GM to go out and get Beal.  They could possibly not be true, however, I would think they if it were, Wiseman would be an attractive piece that they can throw in a deal. 

 

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Just now, Diesel said:

 

I think there's an impetus for GS to do something.   They are the one team under a lot of pressure.  Steph's window is closing.   The three headed monster of Steph, Klay, and Green has this one time to show that they are still championship quality.   But they need that one extra player to be up with the top tiers.  Steph and Green did a Herculean effort last year and ended up out of the playoffs.  The quality of Klay's game is unknown.  These are things that they can't change.   I think in desperation, they are willing to part with the near future for one more shot.   It's been stated that they asked specifically for their GM to go out and get Beal.  They could possibly not be true, however, I would think they if it were, Wiseman would be an attractive piece that they can throw in a deal. 

 

@kg01 aaaaannnnd Diesel wants to double up on my blood pressure lol. Okay I’m in. What can we do to make Curry’s golden years memorable. :sleep:

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32 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Hawks homers made it that to try to discredit Wiseman. 

:mellow:

33 minutes ago, Diesel said:

OK... But Wiseman will have the same abilities as Giannis in a few short years.

Absolutely no.

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2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

@kg01 aaaaannnnd Diesel wants to double up on my blood pressure lol. Okay I’m in. What can we do to make Curry’s golden years memorable. :sleep:

One more run at the title.... and beat Lebron and his forces on the way. 

You do know that Lebron is trying to recruit Curry to come and join his legion in LAL?

 

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1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

:mellow:

Absolutely no.

Aside from your dislike of Wiseman... this requires explanation.   Let me give you some points to refute....

  • He has a similar Ball radius. 
  • Similar size.
  • Similar athletic ability
  • just as good a finisher as Giannis at the same time.  (probably better). 
  • Poor but bettering midrange shot (like Giannis at the same stage). 

These are not just my thoughts...

 

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