If Golden State is giving up Wiseman, the Hawks should be Listening.


Diesel
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Premium Member
7 hours ago, marco102 said:

This thread is getting more outrageous with each post supporting this trade.  

I have no idea why no one wants to run it back with a healthy squad (minus OO) to see what we really have. Then we should start making trades to address needs.

Wiseman is a good young big, but to give up that much depth is crazy!!!

A big with Wiseman's skills and potential usually are not traded.  We're talking a franchise player. 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The hottest rumor is Siakim for Wiseman and Wiggins. 

Now... I don't know but A SNT of JC for Wiseman and Wiggins would work for me...  but we would have to see what kind of deal is available. 

Hmmm....see I don't hate that because I don't hate Wiggins. I think he's overpaid but he isn't as bad as people play him out to be. There are 2 years left on that deal as opposed to a full contract if you resign JC.  As long as there is no other "compensation" I think I'd do that deal. Let Wiseman tutor under Clint (it did wonders for OO) and see if OO can make that jump to the 4 offensively (he's already there on defense).

 

3 years from now a starting roster of :

Trae

Cam/Huerter

Hunter

OO

Wiseman

would be pretty hard to beat defensively. You have my attention now....tell me more. (FYI, there would have to be something else sent to GSW to satisfy the cap and you can't add to it in a sign and trade from our end so it would have to be 2 separate simultaneous deals or 3 team).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me set the math for you.

JC's starting contract is about $28 million if max'd. Wiseman + Wiggins next year is $40 million.  The easiest answer is we include a pick that gets forwarded to another team who sends a player to GS worth about $7 million.  The least GS takes back in this deal is about $35 million so it would have to be a player buy at 7-17 million with a pick (helping someone else drop cap and they'd have to take something else back so a pick.

 

Sending Bruno doesn't really help he doesn't make enough. Either we send that 7 ish million because we'll be over the cap and the salaries must align or we send compensation (pic) and someone else sends it.

Edited by thecampster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member
5 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Hmmm....see I don't hate that because I don't hate Wiggins. I think he's overpaid but he isn't as bad as people play him out to be. There are 2 years left on that deal as opposed to a full contract if you resign JC.  As long as there is no other "compensation" I think I'd do that deal. Let Wiseman tutor under Clint (it did wonders for OO) and see if OO can make that jump to the 4 offensively (he's already there on defense).

 

3 years from now a starting roster of :

Trae

Cam/Huerter

Hunter

OO

Wiseman

would be pretty hard to beat defensively. You have my attention now....tell me more. (FYI, there would have to be something else sent to GSW to satisfy the cap and you can't add to it in a sign and trade from our end so it would have to be 2 separate simultaneous deals or 3 team).

Ah....   Welcome to the Darksyde!!!

JC would look good in GS too...  Like I said, the Hawks ought to be listening. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Diesel said:

Ah....   Welcome to the Darksyde!!!

JC would look good in GS too...  Like I said, the Hawks ought to be listening. 

yah the salaries don't align and although they'd like to drop Wiggins, I'm not sure this gets it done.  The deal as I stated it would help them drop 6 million in salary and like $30 million in LT penalty but I'm not sure that moves their needle to give up now. I don't think JC alone puts them back into contention for a chip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member
1 minute ago, thecampster said:

Let me set the math for you.

JC's starting contract is about $28 million if max'd. Wiseman + Wiggins next year is $40 million.  The easiest answer is we include a pick that gets forwarded to another team who sends a player to GS worth about $7 million.  The least GS takes back in this deal is about $35 million so it would have to be a player buy at 7-17 million with a pick (helping someone else drop cap and they'd have to take something else back so a pick.

 

Sending Bruno doesn't really help he doesn't make enough.

Well, I don't know if the rules still state that we can't SNT with other players involved.  But....  How much can we frontload a JC contract?  Or could we do two deals to get it done...handshake.   I was listening to them also talk about Sexton for Wiseman with Picks involved... but I doubt that one.  That's just talk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member
Just now, thecampster said:

yah the salaries don't align and although they'd like to drop Wiggins, I'm not sure this gets it done.  The deal as I stated it would help them drop 6 million in salary and like $30 million in LT penalty but I'm not sure that moves their needle to give up now. I don't think JC alone puts them back into contention for a chip.

It's illegal... but if we did a Hunter for Wiseman... then turn around and SNT JC for Wiggins...in a second deal would that work?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Diesel said:

Well, I don't know if the rules still state that we can't SNT with other players involved.  But....  How much can we frontload a JC contract?  Or could we do two deals to get it done...handshake.   I was listening to them also talk about Sexton for Wiseman with Picks involved... but I doubt that one.  That's just talk.

That's not how this works. See here: 

 

 

image.png.3b3e74ef1a95b6e73b5755007541d7fa.png

 

6 years or less column. That's his max contract allowable signing with us. Starting at $28.1 million, same cap hit...no exceptions or weird NFL bonus fenagling. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member
1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He WAS a 1st overall pick. He's now an NBA player with an assigned value after playing games.

11.5 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 51% from the field in 21 mpg....

Yes.. He has value. 

KG = 10.4 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 49% shooting in his first year.  28 mpg.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

It's illegal... but if we did a Hunter for Wiseman... then turn around and SNT JC for Wiggins...in a second deal would that work?

 

JC for Wiggins straight up works. That part you're fine on ($28mil for $31 mil, within 25%).

Wiseman will be at $9 million. We'd have to send out between 7.2 and 11.25 million. (note: we could also simultaneously snt any of our free agents in this scenario as well...say snell but don't get cocky its too complicated). In this scenario and including only 1 player, only Deandre Hunter fits. Including 2 players and using Bruno, only OO + Bruno fits. 

 

So to clear it up, what you'd be proposing is sending out Collins and Hunter for Wiggins and Wiseman or Collins, Bruno and OO for Wiggins and Wiseman in 2 separate deals. Sorry that's just too much.  But I like the enthusiasm.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Go back and read draft material from last year.  Many people were not convinced Wiseman would be the best big selected.

Yes, I like to joke around but I'm no clown with my opinions.

I'm also waiting for someone to explain why a win-now team has been tying to move the guy for the better part of a year.  And why another win-now team wants to pay a premium to acquire him.

He’s always been a high potential prospect no doubt about that.

Because GS already has a formula for winning a championship and only needs a few more pieces to get back that level.

Atlanta could be looking at long term fit taking our conference into consideration that Embiid and Giannis will always be barriers to a finals appearance. A Wiseman and OO front court COULD defensively be the answer more so than JC/Clint or Clint/OO. It would be a risky move, but one if successful could mean a real deal dynasty. I just happen to believe Wiseman will be one of the Top 3-5 bigs in the league a couple of years from now. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Diesel said:

A big with Wiseman's skills and potential usually are not traded.  We're talking a franchise player. 

LMAO! Okongwu is better and was better as a prospect.

Edited by NBASupes
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member
3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Franchise players don't get traded.

Sure they do....

Harden was traded. 

Westbrook was traded. 

Kareem was traded. 

Shaq was traded. 

KG was traded. 

KG01... what you say sounds good until it's scrutinized.  Under Scrutiny, we find that this statement is just conjecture.   Sheez.. Luka could be traded soon.   Beal is on the trading blocks.  Dame may be traded.  Simmons is on the Blocks.  Franchise players are traded all the time.  Teams look at windows and matchups...  They also look at player happiness.   Golden State is considering it's window.  They have to do something to keep Steph happy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

He WAS a 1st overall pick. He's now an NBA player with an assigned value after playing games.

Yah, no, yah.  There's politics, face saving and it was only 1 Covid shortened year. Typically I'd agree here but honesty compels me to say its a smidge more complicated than that.

6th overall pick, you are 100% right.  1st overall pick but legal trouble...sure.  But the player, size, skills, potential are all still there. If they were giving him away to the Knicks (for example) in exchange for absorbing Wiggins contract (something they could do), New York would jump on that in a minute and still consider it like getting a #1 pick.  He's very close to being Ayton. Ayton's first year he was 16/10 30 minutes per game. Wiseman was 11.5 and 5.8 in 21 minutes. average that out to 30 and he's 16.4/8.3.  I mean he's almost Ayton per minute comparing rookie years'. But I get where you're coming from and it has merit and I'd 100% agree if we were talking a non top 3 pick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Okay, lets be real.  Wiseman is better than OO. His ceiling is top 5 center (5 years from now). OO's more of a top 15 ceiling.  Still good, but there is a huge difference in 5 to 15.  Wiseman has size and you can't teach size. He has a solid foundational offensive game. Needs polish but he's very ahead there.

 

Wiseman, if we're giving his value would be Clint + 20 salary filler from GS (they obviously aren't doing this). or OO +20 and a future unprotected 1st.  Wiseman is not...I repeat is not worth Hunter right now....period.  He is not worth Cam based on Cam's unlimited ceiling....yes of every Hawk on the roster right now Cam has the highest ceiling. He has a climb but his natural gifts are higher than anyone else's. Wiseman is worth Huerter and maybe more except for the the x factor as a teammate Huerter brings. He is a calming force, a loved teammate and his ginger lack of a soul makes every opponent nervous. Talent, absolutely you trade him for Wiseman but K'von has intangibles that you either have or you don't and we don't know that about Wiseman (I'm guessing not).

In the modern NBA, having the best big still matters but it is not like it was 20 years ago.  The game is won on the wing and off penetration. Real 2 way wings are hard to come by. We use the phrase 3 and D but how many are really good it. Really, how many?  All 3 of our wings are good at it (if we count post season Cam). They will only get better and that is the bedrock of modern championships.

I was talking to a buddy of mine who is not a Hawks fan. His opinion was that if 1) Hunter is healthy, 2) Cam is healthy starting with Game 1 and 3) Trae doesn't step on a ref's foot....He thinks we win that series in 6 and are NBA champs right now. I agree. If we can add Wiseman without tampering with the core, I say do it. But we either need to bring JC back or find a viable replacement, keep our 3 wings and Trae. That's your core folks...everything else is moveable. Those 5 for the next 6 years are the backbone of a deep playoff run each year. Tinker, don't get greedy.

This is what I’m saying essentially. I wouldn’t move Hunter or Cam, but if we need to move any combination of Clint, JC, Huerter, and/or draft picks that would be a reasonable price. It’s also something I could see GS doing as Clint fills their biggest need. He’s the main draw of the trade.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

LMAO! Okongwu is better and was better as a prospect.

Homer goggles. OO is not "better", nor was he a better prospect.  But they are close enough I can accept your premise.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

Homer goggles. OO is not "better", nor was he a better prospect.  But they are close enough I can accept your premise.

I think if you want to grade where OO wins its energy, guts, scrambling. All valuable commodities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.