If Golden State is giving up Wiseman, the Hawks should be Listening.


Diesel
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Honestly... if we could have a handshake deal with GS..  whereby the first trade was Hunter for Wiseman and the second trade was JC (SNT) for Wiggins, I would do it. 

I like everything that Hunter brings to the game but Hunter doesn't have the (Here it comes) Upside of Wiseman.  An Athletic 7 footer who can run the floor, pass, and block shots...  He has the skillset of a young KG.   

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Different proposal....

Clint and Gallo for Wiseman and Wiggins?

Thoughts. 

Clint and Gallo provide GS with what they want... Talent around Steph, Klay, and Draymond.   They also get out of Wiggins deal. 

Us.. we get Wiseman.  We lose some depth...

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9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Honestly... if we could have a handshake deal with GS..  whereby the first trade was Hunter for Wiseman and the second trade was JC (SNT) for Wiggins, I would do it. 

I like everything that Hunter brings to the game but Hunter doesn't have the (Here it comes) Upside of Wiseman.  An Athletic 7 footer who can run the floor, pass, and block shots...  He has the skillset of a young KG.   

I can appreciate that...I wouldn't.  The Wiggins part of it isn't Hawks friendly because it binds our hands for 2 seasons to a big contract for a player worth more like $18 mil a year. 

 

Let's play the game though for a minute.  You could do the following trade....this I might consider.

CC + Gallo (37.5 million) + 20th pick + the OKC 1st for Wiseman + Wiggins ($40.5 million) + 7th pick.

 

Why we do it - Wiseman + the 7th pick, a chance to spin Wiggins next year as an expiring.

Why GS does it.  Clint fills an immediate need. Gallo fills an immediate need. They drop $3 million LT space and save $10-15 (ish) million in LT penalty.

 

Yes, this is a real possibility and something GS might do.

Edited by thecampster
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14 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Homer goggles. OO is not "better", nor was he a better prospect.  But they are close enough I can accept your premise.

I believed OO was a better prospect before the draft. I never believed in Wiseman potential. Just go back to my draft thread that year. I always believed he was overrated, overhyped and most importantly, not that good. He has upside but my question was would it be realized. 

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If there was a way to spin it for future draft capital for 14 I would do that as well.  

Just now, NBASupes said:

I believed OO was a better prospect before the draft. I never believed in Wiseman potential. Just go back to my draft thread that year. I always believed he was overrated, overhyped and most importantly, not that good. He has upside but my question was would it be realized. 

You just can't coach size man. He's going to have a big frame. An offensive weapon at center is going to make Trae's life much easier in the future.

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5 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I can appreciate that...I wouldn't.  The Wiggins part of it isn't Hawks friendly because it binds our hands for 2 seasons to a big contract for a player worth more like $18 mil a year. 

 

Let's play the game though for a minute.  You could do the following trade....this I might consider.

CC + Gallo (37.5 million) + 20th pick + the OKC 1st for Wiseman + Wiggins ($40.5 million) + 7th pick.

 

Why we do it - Wiseman + the 7th pick, a chance to spin Wiggins next year as an expiring.

Why GS does it.  Clint fills an immediate need. Gallo fills an immediate need. They drop $3 million LT space and save $10-15 (ish) million in LT penalty.

 

Yes, this is a real possibility and something GS might do.

Like minds.

I wouldn't even include picks.  I think that #7 pick would be advantageous for them to use to try and pick up another piece.   Just getting Clint and Gallo puts them back in championship contention.   We don't need more picks.   We should then be able to still resign JC and deal Wig next year. 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Sure they do....

Harden was traded. 

Westbrook was traded. 

Kareem was traded. 

Shaq was traded. 

KG was traded. 

KG01... what you say sounds good until it's scrutinized.  Under Scrutiny, we find that this statement is just conjecture.   Sheez.. Luka could be traded soon.   Beal is on the trading blocks.  Dame may be traded.  Simmons is on the Blocks.  Franchise players are traded all the time.  Teams look at windows and matchups...  They also look at player happiness.   Golden State is considering it's window.  They have to do something to keep Steph happy. 

Ironic statement here.

Franchise players force trades all the time.  Is that what's happening to Wiseman?

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Just now, Diesel said:

Like minds.

I wouldn't even include picks.  I think that #7 pick would be advantageous for them to use to try and pick up another piece.   Just getting Clint and Gallo puts them back in championship contention.   We don't need more picks.   We should then be able to still resign JC and deal Wig next year. 

 

 

IF we did deal Clint... that would lead to a circumstance where I would strongly consider picking up Dwight.  Until OO gets back, we would need somebody that we could platoon in that can get rebounds.   This past years championship and last years too was determined by the ability to control rebounds.  With that in mind, the best rebounding big out there in FAcy is still Dwight.   I would hold my nose but a 1 year deal could be thought about. 

 

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A note on the GS picks.  They are so far over the cap that high draft picks are actually painful for them.

Assuming they waived all free agents next year and took both draft picks...they would sit $38 million above the luxury tax threshhold and would owe almost $164 million in LT payments. Not an exaggeration. $164 million owed. The total salary for Wiseman and their 2 picks is about $18 million total but will cost them almost $90 million in LT payments. Sending us 14 to take Wiggins and Wiseman for CC and Gallo would save them over $6 million in cap space and $30 million in LT payments. Yes their cap situation is that bad.  If you're winning chips its less egregious but out in the 1st round, its criminal.

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3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Ironic statement here.

Franchise players force trades all the time.  Is that what's happening to Wiseman?

True... but that's not what's going on in all of these cases.   Beal is not forcing a trade.   Beal is happy but Washington is looking at their situation and saying... our window doesn't make sense with Beal.   Teams look at their window all the time and trade what we consider are franchise players.   Don't we know that???  Do you think that Nique wanted to be traded when we shipped him off to LAC??  Come KG01.  You might win some but you just lost one. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Like minds.

I wouldn't even include picks.  I think that #7 pick would be advantageous for them to use to try and pick up another piece.   Just getting Clint and Gallo puts them back in championship contention.   We don't need more picks.   We should then be able to still resign JC and deal Wig next year. 

 

 

Its too expensive for them to keep. Its $5 million in salary year 1 and $25 million in LT Penalty. They've got to find a way to drop salary and those are going to be their only trading capital.  They are letting Oubre walk for free this year because they can't justify resigning him.  Oubre isn't a franchise player but he's walking for free....that's a sin.

IE they can be fleeced right now if it helps them win today.

Edited by thecampster
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1 minute ago, thecampster said:

A note on the GS picks.  They are so far over the cap that high draft picks are actually painful for them.

Assuming they waived all free agents next year and took both draft picks...they would sit $38 million above the luxury tax threshhold and would owe almost $164 million in LT payments. Not an exaggeration. $164 million owed. The total salary for Wiseman and their 2 picks is about $18 million total but will cost them almost $90 million in LT payments. Sending us 14 to take Wiggins and Wiseman for CC and Gallo would save them over $6 million in cap space and $30 million in LT payments. Yes their cap situation is that bad.  If you're winning chips its less egregious but out in the 1st round, its criminal.

My man..  You are unapproachable with that cap s--t. 

 

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16 hours ago, gurpilo said:

It would take probably Huerter and Hunter to get Wiseman. And I think I would do it,

The only thing that would give me pause for thought to consider this is Hunter's health so far in his career a bit of a yellow flag.

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1 minute ago, Diesel said:

My man..  You are unapproachable with that cap s--t. 

 

don't have to know it to see it....go here: http://www.shamsports.com/capulator choose GS from the drop down.

 

Go down to free agents and hit renounce all on the first 2 columns, then slide to the bottom. Look at Luxury Tax Room and Payment. Its really that easy.  They're in it in a bad way.

 

Then do the same for the Hawks. Without Collins hold, we've got about $15 million to spend. With Collins hold, technically $3 million. If Dunn opts out...$8 million. If Collins signs elsewhere and Dunn opts out, $20 million.  We're no where near the LT this year. But next year, the holds for Huerter, Trae tie our hands. Following year, Cam and Hunter.  Its why I keep saying Gallo is the magic key to keeping everyone.

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20 minutes ago, thecampster said:

If there was a way to spin it for future draft capital for 14 I would do that as well.  

You just can't coach size man. He's going to have a big frame. An offensive weapon at center is going to make Trae's life much easier in the future.

Whiteside is available for the vet min

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14 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Like minds.

I wouldn't even include picks.  I think that #7 pick would be advantageous for them to use to try and pick up another piece.   Just getting Clint and Gallo puts them back in championship contention.   We don't need more picks.   We should then be able to still resign JC and deal Wig next year. 

 

 

Oh I beg to differ. There are a number of very useful (no superstars) pieces in this year's draft that are flying under the radar. Queta is going to be in this league a while. Kai Jones is going to be a very useful big going forward. Garuba and Butler. All going to provide good minutes at reasonable costs. If I could spin that 20 + players into 7/14 and get Jones/Butler I'd call this a very successful offseason.  Lose CC/Gallo (which I agree sucks) but get a year of Wiggins + Wiseman, Jones (or Garuba) and Butler on rookie deals for the next 3-4 years...yah, I'm all over that.  Loads of talent and cap flexibility.  Those picks are going to be solid role players in the near future. 

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Whiteside is available for the vet min

This would not preclude signing a Whiteside...there is still going to be a roster spot or two and exceptions.

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19 minutes ago, thecampster said:

A note on the GS picks.  They are so far over the cap that high draft picks are actually painful for them.

Assuming they waived all free agents next year and took both draft picks...they would sit $38 million above the luxury tax threshhold and would owe almost $164 million in LT payments. Not an exaggeration. $164 million owed. The total salary for Wiseman and their 2 picks is about $18 million total but will cost them almost $90 million in LT payments. Sending us 14 to take Wiggins and Wiseman for CC and Gallo would save them over $6 million in cap space and $30 million in LT payments. Yes their cap situation is that bad.  If you're winning chips its less egregious but out in the 1st round, its criminal.

Even still, I think the Warriors would rather just go all in and try to acquire Dame. That deal you proposed isn't bad though, and I might be eager to pull the trigger. But at the same time, I'm unsure if Wiseman will be able to improve his BBIQ in one offseason. Enough to the point to where he can be a defensive anchor on a championship team.

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2 hours ago, EazyRoc said:

Why on earth, if your assertion is true, would JW be the first overall pick in the draft and OO the sixth ?

2nd.. :indifferent:

2 hours ago, EazyRoc said:

for a first overall pick

:indifferent:… 2nd. 

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