If Golden State is giving up Wiseman, the Hawks should be Listening.

[JCDBaptist]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

A big with Wiseman's skills and potential usually are not traded.  We're talking a franchise player. 

So why is GSW so adamant to trade him. Age and injury is catching up to Klay, Draymond, and Steph. This is potentially your future face of the franchise and top 5 player as you stated.

[Dnice]

This thing really escalated.

[sturt]

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Wiggins #1 pick, Anthony Bennet #1 pick and Thaddeus Young #12 pick - traded for Kevin Love.

I think you are overvaluing his #1 pick status. 

Remember since last draft, GSW has been trying to move that pick for a win now player.

 

They're also in Salary Cap hell.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

Oh I beg to differ. There are a number of very useful (no superstars) pieces in this year's draft that are flying under the radar. Queta is going to be in this league a while. Kai Jones is going to be a very useful big going forward. Garuba and Butler. All going to provide good minutes at reasonable costs. If I could spin that 20 + players into 7/14 and get Jones/Butler I'd call this a very successful offseason.  Lose CC/Gallo (which I agree sucks) but get a year of Wiggins + Wiseman, Jones (or Garuba) and Butler on rookie deals for the next 3-4 years...yah, I'm all over that.  Loads of talent and cap flexibility.  Those picks are going to be solid role players in the near future. 

This would not preclude signing a Whiteside...there is still going to be a roster spot or two and exceptions.

My point is that with or without Wiseman... us keeping Hunter, Cam, Trae, JC, Bogi etc... is already a close to impossible task.  The hard cap and LT tends to eat teams up and force them to throw away players like Obre. 

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

My point is that with or without Wiseman... us keeping Hunter, Cam, Trae, JC, Bogi etc... is already a close to impossible task.  The hard cap and LT tends to eat teams up and force them to throw away players like Obre. 

Cap will go up significantly in 25-26 season.  The Hawks will not be in Luxury tax hell if the cap goes up double.  The new TV deal is expected to by about $75 billion.  That's up more than triple from the current $24 billion deal. 

If the Hawks anticipate this and plan to stay out of the Luxury tax one extra season, they only may pay tax two seasons and then drop out of it in the 25-26.  Many teams are willing to pay that if you have a championship level team and can keep them together through their primes.

[JCDBaptist]

9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

My point is that with or without Wiseman... us keeping Hunter, Cam, Trae, JC, Bogi etc... is already a close to impossible task.  The hard cap and LT tends to eat teams up and force them to throw away players like Obre. 

Bogi would be the 1st sacrificial lamb IMO. We Hawks fans endured endless mockery. I love our organic buildup and player development and chemistry. All of this is organically done with our core. Gallo and Clint would be the next sacrificial lambs.

For the right deal if course. Also assuming our core returns on team friendly, slightly less than market value to keep the core intact.

[RandomFan]

4 hours ago, thecampster said:

Okay, lets be real.  Wiseman is better than OO. His ceiling is top 5 center (5 years from now). OO's more of a top 15 ceiling.  Still good, but there is a huge difference in 5 to 15.  Wiseman has size and you can't teach size. He has a solid foundational offensive game. Needs polish but he's very ahead there.

Agreed with most of the rest of your post, but I can't disagree more strongly with this part I quoted. Most of the knowledgeable basketball heads I follow or listen to think it's not even a hint of a question that OO is clearly better than Wiseman, not only now but also in the future. 

OO has top 30 player in the NBA potential, not just top 15 center. From where you seem to value OO I understand all of your arguments, I just think you GREATLY undervalue OO. Personally, I wouldn't trade OO straight up for Wiseman; and I highly doubt any other team would either. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by RandomFan

[marco102]

7 minutes ago, JCDBaptist said:

Bogi would be the 1st sacrificial lamb IMO. We Hawks fans endured endless mockery. I love our organic buildup and player development and chemistry. All of this is organically done with our core. Gallo and Clint would be the next sacrificial lambs.

For the right deal if course. Also assuming our core returns on team friendly, slightly less than market value to keep the core intact.

I think you have that backwards. Gallo is likely the first to go do to the structure of his contract.  Then Client and Bogi.

[Diesel]

20 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Cap will go up significantly in 25-26 season.  The Hawks will not be in Luxury tax hell if the cap goes up double.  The new TV deal is expected to by about $75 billion.  That's up more than triple from the current $24 billion deal. 

If the Hawks anticipate this and plan to stay out of the Luxury tax one extra season, they only may pay tax two seasons and then drop out of it in the 25-26.  Many teams are willing to pay that if you have a championship level team and can keep them together through their primes.

Popularity in the NBA Product is down.  Unless the NBA can manufacture a new star (Hello Steph) to take over after Bron starts to fade then it's going to be hard to see the NBA TV deal to be higher than the last. 

[thecampster]

14 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Agreed with most of the rest of your post, but I can't disagree more strongly with this part I quoted. Most of the knowledgeable basketball heads I follow or listen to think it's not even a hint of a question that OO is clearly better than Wiseman, not only now but also in the future. 

OO has top 30 player in the NBA potential, not just top 15 center. From where you seem to value OO I understand all of your arguments, I just think you GREATLY undervalue OO. Personally, I wouldn't trade OO straight up for Wiseman; and I highly doubt any other team would either. 

There's a reason one was drafted 2nd and the other 6th. At least 5 teams disagree with you!

What I can tell you is we heavily shopped 6 on draft night but weren't blown away by any offers. OO was there if people wanted him. There were no takers. And I don't over value OO, I just understand his ceiling is top 15 center. I'm realistic.

Edited July 24, 2021 by thecampster

[RandomFan]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

There's a reason one was drafted 2nd and the other 6th. At least 5 teams disagree with you!

Not after seeing them both in the NBA they don't. 

There were 4 teams that thought they had better players to draft than Trae Young too.

Edited July 24, 2021 by RandomFan

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Popularity in the NBA Product is down.  Unless the NBA can manufacture a new star (Hello Steph) to take over after Bron starts to fade then it's going to be hard to see the NBA TV deal to be higher than the last. 

Popularity in the nba is not down. How people consume the NBA is much different than previous generations.  I believe they measure by hours spent watching the product to price the deals.  Social Media makes the NBA one of the biggest sports in the world.  If you don't have a TV deal you can't be posting highlights, etc. on social media that get interactions and also make these companies money.  

Again, the Hawks may not have as much trouble keeping their core as some may believe. 

[aali34]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Popularity in the NBA Product is down.  Unless the NBA can manufacture a new star (Hello Steph) to take over after Bron starts to fade then it's going to be hard to see the NBA TV deal to be higher than the last. 

Nahh. Ratings are down cause the NBA does a shitty job of making their product accessible and convenient for their viewers.

I don't have cable so I can't watch Hawks games on Bally Sports. I don't watch other sports so a FoxSports-Go subscription is outta the cards for me. League Pass is trash also.

I don't know about contract details with ESPN, Fox, and Turner but I would imagine having a central streaming service for all NBA games would be ideal and also makes it easier for foreign viewers. They're probably attempting this but idk.

[RandomFan]

Umm, didn't I read numerous articles this postseason talking about how so many more people are watching this year? What are we even talking about here?

[JCDBaptist]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

I think you have that backwards. Gallo is likely the first to go do to the structure of his contract.  Then Client and Bogi.

My bad. I was responding to a post that did not have Gallo included but more so was speaking on the wings.

[thescout]

9 hours ago, kg01 said:

Franchise players don't get traded.

Brett Farve? 

[thescout]

Before I do any deals there must be a way to find out why Golden State would deal a big with this potential. Is he a locker room cancer? Doesn't get along with certain players or coaches? Is a stat padder? You see the tools but these questions need to be answered. If everything checks out find a way to get him. 

[kg01]

56 minutes ago, thescout said:

Brett Farve? 

If they're having Farve-in-Atlanta type problems, i really don't want Wiseman.

[thescout]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

If they're having Farve-in-Atlanta type problems, i really don't want Wiseman.

Lol.Yep I remember. Sometimes a change of environment can do wonders though. I would hope Hawks GM has enough connections to find out what's going on.