Jalen Johnson (Josh Smith)

[RedDawg#8]

Jalen is taking full advantage of this offseason. You see the youth/rawness, but  look how much more fluid, smooth, and comfortable he is compared to fellow rookie Kai Jones. 

JJ has a ways to go but he is on the right path. That rip through series is in his bag. He's going to be a good one.

[MarylandHawk]

7 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Jalen is taking full advantage of this offseason. You see the youth/rawness, but  look how much more fluid, smooth, and comfortable he is compared to fellow rookie Kai Jones. 

JJ has a ways to go but he is on the right path. That rip through series is in his bag. He's going to be a good one.

This guys work ethic seems legit. I have already seen more offseason work from him than Cam. I know Cam and Dre are pretty private guys but I hope they are putting in that work. Don’t really have to question that with Jalen at this point. 

[Gray Mule]

Nice to know that Hawk's rookie isn't just sitting around, getting fat, waiting for pre season!!

[AHF]

18 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

You know what it is, man?

It's the big elephant in the room.  We felt that we NEEDED Cam to not only be good, but very good, in order to justify the trade of "that dude in Dallas" for Trae Young + 1st rd pick ( Cam Reddish ).

That's part of the reason why people go so hard for Cam, and sell him very high on his potential. 

 

Not sure why you'd go here.   Cam was viewed as having elite potential from day 1 and not (just) by Hawks fans.  If you recall, his peers said he was the guy who would have the best career over all their draft peers including Zion:

Quote

Rookies see Reddish, not Zion, having best career

Zion Williamson has been hailed as the next big thing in the NBA, but his colleagues in the incoming rookie class aren't sold on the idea that the No. 1 overall pick will have a great NBA career.

In the league's annual survey of rookies, players were asked which member of the 2019 class would have the best career. Williamson received only 5% of the votes.

Cam Reddish, Williamson's teammate at Duke, garnered 19% of the votes. Reddish went to the Atlanta Hawks with the 10th pick of the draft.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27421425/rookies-see-reddish-not-zion-having-best-career

 

Cam has always been seen by scouts as having elite potential.  It isn't just something that Hawks fans have generated out of whole cloth because they "needed" him to be great due to the trade.

[marco102]

2 hours ago, MarylandHawk said:

This guys work ethic seems legit. I have already seen more offseason work from him than Cam. I know Cam and Dre are pretty private guys but I hope they are putting in that work. Don’t really have to question that with Jalen at this point. 

In the social media age, we think because someone is not posting, they aren't working.  You barely saw anything from Hunter last year and look at his improvement. You rarely see anything from JC and he's added something substantial to his game every off season.  Some NBA players love the attention  and others are more private.  It doesn't mean they aren't working just as hard as the ones you see in the runs and training sessions. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by marco102

[RedDawg#8]

34 minutes ago, marco102 said:

In the social media age, we think because someone is not posting, they aren't working.  You barely saw anything from Hunter last year and look at his improvement. You rarely see anything from JC and he's added something substantial to his game every off season.  Some NBA players love the attention  and others are more private.  It doesn't mean they aren't working just as hard as the ones you see in the runs and training sessions. 

All true.

I think it's also the player's agents/management team pushing content as well. Jalen is coming in with a lot of criticism so they are likely putting out as much content as possible to combat any accusation that he doesn't love the game or want to work hard.

When JC was preparing for the draft you saw, or at least I did, a few workout videos of him shooting from the outside. This was likely put out because his scouting report going in to the draft was that he didn't shoot the ball at Wake Forrest. 

Last off season, due to Covid restrictions, I don't blame the players for not putting out a ton of workout content. 

There is always a rhyme or reason, I'm sure most of the guys would rather go to the gym and go home and not bring cameramen. 

 

 

 

[sillent]

On 9/21/2021 at 2:31 PM, AHF said:

Ummm....are we talking about the same player?  Here are Josh's FG% numbers by distance:

0-3 feet from the rim:  .669%   -- Great strong start here!

3-10 feet from the rim:  .354% -- Wait, just moving out a few feet causes his FG% to crash to horrific lows?!?

10-16 feet from the rim:  Good here we are in mid-range primetime so this should be really good, right?  .266%  

16-3pt range:  .345% -- that is really, really bad

3pt range:  ,285% -- my eyes, my eyesssss  

 

So not sure what Josh Smith you are talking about but here is how every Hawks fan should have reacted the moment Josh Smith tried to take any kind of jumper:

It might've only been a yr to 3 at max. Definitely didn't say he was born shooting lol... He did eventually develop a mid range and went off during that season.

Maybe it was one of the yrs Horford went down. Don't act like we all didn't know he was a work in progress though lol... He eventually progressed with the midrange for us.

Too bad he tried to include 3's like the yr after. It just made it all look bad.

[sillent]

On 9/21/2021 at 1:25 PM, Final_quest said:

Someone asked if Jalen should be ahead of other guys on the depth chart right now.  I'm not saying he should get PT over anyone currently.  What does feel off for me was the reaction to the post that he could be better than Hunter, Reddish, and Huerter. 

I have seen this board react to summer league play of 1st rounders, 2nd rounders, and undrafted players and posters will give some crazy hype without much reason.  Jalen comes out and I honestly can't remember a summer league rookie on our team looking that good.  It was the WAY he got his buckets and played.  Some guys have put up stats, but this dude looked like a mixture of Josh Smith and John Collins.  He played so clean and smooth.  Completely in control.  It feels like the inverse of the blind hope that gets applied to other guys when they flash any potential in summer league.  More like irrational lowering of expectations and discarding how he looked.  To apply a term like Rorshach test to a guy who beasted like Jalen means you are going to an extreme degree to minimize what we saw.  Basically says his showing means absolutely nothing.

I will believe in a crude eye test until I see others make Jalen look ordinary.  Same with Cam.  This will be his 3rd year to demonstrate his potential if you count Duke.  So far he has a pretty bad track record of living up to the hype.  Could be tons of flaws in my point of view.  I'm only sharing my reactions on a fan message board.  My take right now is Jalen >>> Cam.  

Corrected. These guys are still super young. They haven't had much time in the league yet.

[sillent]

On 9/21/2021 at 5:15 PM, NBASupes said:

Cam has underwhelmed so far but that's based on him. Not his potential which is off the charts. 

Cam offensive ceiling is Norm Powell. He's been performing closer to a terrible day Norm Powell than Powell outside of the playoffs. 

Defensively, Cam is inconsistent as well. He moves and covers ground like Danny Green but lacks the discipline Green has. It took Green going into his 3rd season to figure it our defensively. Danny was a 4 year college player. If Cam figures it out this year, that would probably be right on time. He also has tremendous perimeter versatility like Ben Simmons. He just doesn't have Ben's strength and body maturity. He's never going to have Ben's size but he needs to be a great size for his frame. 

Cam's right now outside of flashes is a rotational player impact wise. His talent screams star if he's consistent. Cam isn't a versatile offensively player but having tremendous skill,  being a bucket and scoring a lot in limited touches is extremely valuable to an offense impact wise. Especially one like ours. Cam's movement off the ball was a strength we saw Nate use that LP didn't bother as we saw with Bogi. 

Hunter of all three is the most limited scorer but he's the most polished scorer. He can shoot, pass, dribble, post up, and he has really good intelligence where he doesn't make stupid mistakes like the others. Hunter lack of tremendous skill, bigger hands, and off ball movement with a Kawhi mentality of wanting to analyze the game when he touches the ball kinds hurts him as a #4 or #5 option. That said, his defensive value for us is 2nd to only Capela. Even with Cam defensive potential, Hunter ability to guard 1-4 is a massive game changer for us. Hunter has shown time and time again that he's one of the most valuable defenders in the NBA even if no one knows outside of Atlanta.

 

JJ has tremendous potential and I see him more as a 4 than a 3. I can see why he's so appealing offensively as a swingman in general. Once he can showcase a reliable jumpshot, there is no question he is established as a 3 level scorer. He can also pass it and pass it extremely well for a 4 considering his age and experience. 

For JJ, shooting, off ball movement, off ball IQ, discipline when not involved or frustrated, and emotional intelligence is what defines him. A player that also comes to mind when I think about JJ is a young Rasheed Wallace. He's not quite as good as a rookie Sheed but the potential is enormous. 

 

You lost me somewhere long ago.... Boo this man j/k but I can't read past that statement lol...

Norman Powell??? Come on Supes

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, sillent said:

You lost me somewhere long ago.... Boo this man j/k but I can't read past that statement lol...

Norman Powell??? Come on Supes

Norm Powell is extremely valuable offensively especially when it comes to scoring consistency with limited touches. Probably the best in the NBA. 

[NBASupes]

19 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Dude I’m a Norman dude UCLA dude.. not really but loved him from the start but that’s not Cam’s ceiling. It’s gotta be PG13  ceiling wise and I know that’s high but you know Cam’s got it. The confidence and consistency has to show up this year and I know you can’t control injuries but he needs to stay healthy and play at least 65 games this year imo.

Touches, will Cam get the touches to be a PG13 type. That's neither here or there, if Cam exceeds the Norm Powell level, that would mean he's an unquestioned top 15 player. To me, I would be happy if his offensive ceiling is PG because I like his defensive potential a lot more than PG at this stage. 

[Spud2nique]

37 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

if Cam exceeds the Norm Powell level, that would mean he's an unquestioned top 15 player.

I agree with everything else in your post except the above. If Cam exceeds Normal Powell level he could be 50-70 best player in the league to me. 
 

My projection for Cam is for him to be listed as a top 50 player by the end of the 2022-2023 season in the entire league. That gives him 2 years to fly into the top 100 list. 

[MarylandHawk]

8 hours ago, marco102 said:

In the social media age, we think because someone is not posting, they aren't working.  You barely saw anything from Hunter last year and look at his improvement. You rarely see anything from JC and he's added something substantial to his game every off season.  Some NBA players love the attention  and others are more private.  It doesn't mean they aren't working just as hard as the ones you see in the runs and training sessions. 

No argument on the fact that guys MAY be woking on their games but there is also chance that they MAY not be doing that much. Cam has been hampered in the past due to injury and covid restrictions in the offseason but has he has no such issues this year. He already passed on an opportunity to run in the summer league, so the expectation is that he would be having runs with seasoned vets over the summer. Signing with Klutch would have given him access to the same people Jalen and Trae have but no videos on him. Talent and BBIQ is not the issue with Cam, it is game experience. If he is waiting on this season to get it, he might be in for a surprise because Kevin, Bogi, and Hunter will have a tight hold on minutes. 

[marco102]

11 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

No argument on the fact that guys MAY be woking on their games but there is also chance that they MAY not be doing that much. Cam has been hampered in the past due to injury and covid restrictions in the offseason but has he has no such issues this year. He already passed on an opportunity to run in the summer league, so the expectation is that he would be having runs with seasoned vets over the summer. Signing with Klutch would have given him access to the same people Jalen and Trae have but no videos on him. Talent and BBIQ is not the issue with Cam, it is game experience. If he is waiting on this season to get it, he might be in for a surprise because Kevin, Bogi, and Hunter will have a tight hold on minutes. 

You don't see me so I MAY not exist.  See how that works? My argument is you can't say because someone is posting on social media that means they are putting in more work than others.  @thecampster has already posted about the team liking what Cam is doing this offseason.  Just because you don't see it doesn't mean they aren't working is the only point I'm making.  

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

I agree with everything else in your post except the above. If Cam exceeds Normal Powell level he could be 50-70 best player in the league to me. 
 

My projection for Cam is for him to be listed as a top 50 player by the end of the 2022-2023 season in the entire league. That gives him 2 years to fly into the top 100 list. 

Naw, Norm Powell offense is easily top 100 status. That's unquestionable when you dig deep into the metrics. His defense is merely average and he lacks defensive versatility. 

I don't know what ya'll think when you think of Norm Powell but I think extremely highly of Norm. You can't find guys who can average 16+ with less than 40 touches a game. Him and Klay are the kings of that but Klay is less versatile offensively than Powell although a superior shooter. You guys are coming off as casuals when it comes to Powell. He's a much better player than you think. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by NBASupes

[MarylandHawk]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

You don't see me so I MAY not exist.  See how that works? My argument is you can't say because someone is posting on social media that means they are putting in more work than others.  @thecampster has already posted about the team liking what Cam is doing this offseason.  Just because you don't see it doesn't mean they aren't working is the only point I'm making.  

 

I acknowledged that point. Again no argument there. It is not just the videos it is also what goes into these offseason workouts. He is with Dwade on a Sunday morning after a Saturday night workout. He is in California when he doesn’t even own a house in atlanta working with seasoned vets.  He is having runs with Ben Simmons and Gordon, veteran guys he has been compared to and is giving them the business. And he is in atlanta early for their training camp getting in work. I can only judge what I see. I hope Cam is putting in the work and I know he is a private guy but I just can’t see what he is doing, so I can only hope. If he is putting in that type of work, he will be well on his way. 

[Spud2nique]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Naw, Norm Powell offense is easily top 100 status.

Yes but not top 15 which you indicated in the previous post. 

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't know what ya'll think when you think of Norm Powell but I think extremely highly of Norm.

Same but he’s not a top 15 overall in the league offensively no way. 

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Yes but not top 15 which you indicated in the previous post. 

Same but he’s not a top 15 overall in the league offensively no way. 

He's doesn't have Cam's defense. Cam has the type of defense to be all NBA a lot. Cam can seriously be a top 3 defensive player and even the best perimeter defender in the NBA when he become disciplined on that end. You mix that with a top 50 scoring package, I think that's a top 15 player for sure. I would say that's more valuable than Ben Simmons for sure and would even say that's more valuable overall than what we got from Joe Johnson in his prime. So I don't take saying his offensive ceiling is Norm Powell lightly. Could he be better? Sure! But Norm is consistent, he's proficient and efficient. He's been top 5 PPT in the last three seasons. He's add a lot of value just due to his offense along. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by NBASupes

[marco102]

18 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

I acknowledged that point. Again no argument there. It is not just the videos it is also what goes into these offseason workouts. He is with Dwade on a Sunday morning after a Saturday night workout. He is in California when he doesn’t even own a house in atlanta working with seasoned vets.  He is having runs with Ben Simmons and Gordon, veteran guys he has been compared to and is giving them the business. And he is in atlanta early for their training camp getting in work. I can only judge what I see. I hope Cam is putting in the work and I know he is a private guy but I just can’t see what he is doing, so I can only hope. If he is putting in that type of work, he will be well on his way. 

I'm glad to see JJ putting in the work this summer too.  I'm really excited to see how he develops over the next few years.

[thecampster]

10 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He's doesn't have Cam's defense. Cam has the type of defense to be all NBA a lot. Cam can seriously be a top 3 defensive player and even the best perimeter defender in the NBA when he become disciplined on that end. You mix that with a top 50 scoring package, I think that's a top 15 player for sure. I would say that's more valuable than Ben Simmons for sure and would even say that's more valuable overall than what we got from Joe Johnson in his prime. So I don't take saying his offensive ceiling is Norm Powell lightly. Could he be better? Sure! But Norm is consistent, he's proficient and efficient. He's been top 5 PPT in the last three seasons. He's add a lot of value just due to his offense along. 

What you have to remember @NBASupes is that people's memories are very short when it comes to star NBA players.  Joe Johnson is a great example of that. They remember 2006, 25 ppg, 4.2/4.4. What they don't remember is Joe's first 3 seasons in the league at ages 20-22 as a Celtic and Sun.  Joe averaged 6.3, 9.6, 9.8 PPG his first 3 seasons in the league while getting about 27 minutes per game. His rebounds and assists were pretty close at about 3.3/2.8 per game.  But Joe shot about 41.5% in his first 3 seasons and about 33% from 3. It took him time to develop just like everyone else. Expecting Cam out of the gate to be lights out was a nice dream and even you and I bumped heads about it. This was the year I originally said Cam would start putting it all together. Most people are seeing those 1st 2 years and feeling as though that's his ceiling. IMHO, Cam is just now starting to figure things out and starting to realize the work required to reach his potential. It would be foolish to give up on him now. Give people time, they'll come around and forget all about this nasty trade Cam nonsense in 3 years.

Edited September 23, 2021 by thecampster