Ben Simmons A Hawk? I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[909]

Ben Simmons ain’t no Shaq  and will never be.

[sturt]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

And most applicable... there was no Steve Sax syndrome concern.

The concern is not merely free throw shooting for BS. The concern is more than that. It's that he checked out of games. He's begun to doubt his ability to affect a game offensively.

This was never the case for Shaq. It is the case for BS. And every post you've posted @Diesel has curiously ignored it, though it's been the theme of every post I've posted.

[Diesel]

18 minutes ago, sturt said:

This was never the case for Shaq. It is the case for BS. And every post you've posted @Diesel has curiously ignored it, though it's been the theme of every post I've posted.

Steve Sax Syndrome is the yips.   Like Barkley's golf swing.   Ben Simmons doesn't have the yips. 

[sturt]

Don't care what you want to call it. Make up a new name if you'd like. At its core, just like Sax, it's a psychological efficacy thing if you want to get into some technicalities, but who really cares. The point made remains.

[macdaddy]

14 hours ago, Diesel said:

My point is when you look at the risk.. the reward is so far above the risk that the risk sounds like the crying of teams that don't want to win

We're already winning.  We already beat the team he's on that was the #1 seed.  Why do we want to mess that up to go after a guy we just embarrassed in the playoffs?  

And as an aside Simmons will not win an MVP, he will not be a hall of famer, he is not Shaq.  These things are all fantasy.  

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

We're already winning.  We already beat the team he's on that was the #1 seed.  Why do we want to mess that up to go after a guy we just embarrassed in the playoffs?  

And as an aside Simmons will not win an MVP, he will not be a hall of famer, he is not Shaq.  These things are all fantasy.  

If he learns to shoot, he would. But ya, in his current state, no.

IMHO if Simmons could elevate his FT% to 80% (unlikely) and his 2pt % (outside 10 feet) to 50%, 3pt to 35%  (these are not unrealistic numbers for an above average shooter), then yes, he's MVP quality. Those are big "ifs".

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Don't care what you want to call it. Make up a new name if you'd like. At its core, just like Sax, it's a psychological efficacy thing if you want to get into some technicalities, but who really cares. The point made remains.

I don't think we have to go that low.   He's about a 60% shooter from the FT in the regular season.   He's a shade under what Lebron has done for his career.   Right along with Westbrook.   Far higher than Clint.   Until we have put him with a shooting coach and see that it doesn't work... until he has tried to fix his free throw with great effort and see that it doesn't get better, I'm not going to suggest that he has the Yips or Steve Sax Syndrome or whatever you'd like to call it.  Much like Lebron, I just think this guy has not put time in trying to make it better. 

[Diesel]

38 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

We're already winning.  We already beat the team he's on that was the #1 seed.  Why do we want to mess that up to go after a guy we just embarrassed in the playoffs?  

And as an aside Simmons will not win an MVP, he will not be a hall of famer, he is not Shaq.  These things are all fantasy.  

Mac.  We barely beat Philly.  If we played them 10 times, it would be 5 -5 or maybe we'd lose.  We had players out, they had players out.  Statistically, they took us behind the woodshed.  IN game, we had to come back from 24 down.  I know we won the series but in my mind, that series could have easily gone their way. 

More importantly...

How do we match up against Brooklyn?  How do we match up against Milwaukee?

Uhm... I don't make bets regularly.. But I am willing to bet you that BS ends up in the Hall of Fame...  His resume right now almost guarantees it.   Here's your homework Mac...   Find me any NBA player that was Rookie of the Year and a three time allstar and All-NBA team that didn't make the Hall of Fame after becoming eligible.  That is to say if Simmons stopped playing right now.. he's still possibly a lock for the Hall.   Cancel culture will be long gone by the time Simmons is up for the Hall. 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

We barely beat Philly.  If we played them 10 times, it would be 5 -5 or maybe we'd lose. 

 huh? Dieselputer needs batteries  

[AHF]

We won a close series against Philly while missing several key players.  Future is bright with or without Simmons.

[aali34]

Big Pass. Most player force themselves off of teams cause of perpetual losing seasons so they can chase a championship.

Ben Simmons is the reason why his team wasn't able to advance and now he wants out?

He feels pissed he was thrown under the bus? Why doesn't he imagine how his teammates feel about him releasing shooting videos in the summer and coming back worse?

He's showing right now that signed contracts don't bind him to on court play, that means you're completely dependent on what he wants matching with what is needed.

 

[sturt]

22 minutes ago, Diesel said:

if Simmons stopped playing right now.. he's still possibly a lock for the Hall. 

We're on different planets.

On my planet, he's not a lock, and he's not even "possibly" a lock.

He's not even on the fence.

From where I sit, I see the fence as being right in front of him. And he's at a place in his career that he's going to either (a) become the guy who infamously underperformed because of some psychological efficacy issues that became blatantly clear in 2021, and he remained on the wrong side of that fence for the balance of his career, or (b) the guy who famously overcame those issues.

I'd bet on "b" if forced to bet... but it's too close to call for me to even be interested in making a bet if losing the bet means that the Schlenk is fiscally hog-tied for these upcoming critical years.

[Spud2nique]

Daryl Morey hopes for reconciliation with Ben Simmons

Chris Mannix: Morey says there is “a lot of hope” for reconciliation between the Sixers and Simmons. “We have a lot of optimism we can make it work here.”

 

– via Twitter SIChrisMannix
 

 

Translation: We shopped the hell out of him and couldn’t get anything. Let’s make up!  

[Diesel]

47 minutes ago, AHF said:

We won a close series against Philly while missing several key players.  Future is bright with or without Simmons.

I'm not here to be the debbie downer... but to point out the fact..

We were without players.   Their best player was playing injured and they were down a player or two also. 

I'm glad that we beat them...  I don't think we would have blown them out if both teams came in 100%.  In fact, I worry.  We went to game 7 with them.  I think either way that the game would have been evenly contested (as it was).   The future is still bright (like you said) because they are an elite team.   But the talk around here is that we dominated them.  NOPE. 

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm not here to be the debbie downer... but to point out the fact..

We were without players.   Their best player was playing injured and they were down a player or two also. 

I'm glad that we beat them...  I don't think we would have blown them out if both teams came in 100%.  In fact, I worry.  We went to game 7 with them.  I think either way that the game would have been evenly contested (as it was).   The future is still bright (like you said) because they are an elite team.   But the talk around here is that we dominated them.  NOPE. 

I don't think Embiid was anything but at his peak in terms of performance regardless of his injury status.  He wasn't slowed down at all.  I do agree we didn't dominate them.  Couple of calls or bounces go against us and we could have lost that series.  It was close and a thrilling vicotry.

44 minutes ago, sturt said:

We're on different planets.

On my planet, he's not a lock, and he's not even "possibly" a lock.

He's not even on the fence.

From where I sit, I see the fence as being right in front of him. And he's at a place in his career that he's going to either (a) become the guy who infamously underperformed because of some psychological efficacy issues that became blatantly clear in 2021, and he remained on the wrong side of that fence for the balance of his career, or (b) the guy who famously overcame those issues.

I'd bet on "b" if forced to bet... but it's too close to call for me to even be interested in making a bet if losing the bet means that the Schlenk is fiscally hog-tied for these upcoming critical years.

Simmons isn't remotely close to the HOF right now.

[Diesel]

38 minutes ago, sturt said:

We're on different planets.

On my planet, he's not a lock, and he's not even "possibly" a lock.

He's not even on the fence.

From where I sit, I see the fence as being right in front of him. And he's at a place in his career that he's going to either (a) become the guy who infamously underperformed because of some psychological efficacy issues that became blatantly clear in 2021, and he remained on the wrong side of that fence for the balance of his career, or (b) the guy who famously overcame those issues.

I'd bet on "b" if forced to bet... but it's too close to call for me to even be interested in making a bet if losing the bet means that the Schlenk is fiscally hog-tied for these upcoming critical years.

This is cancel culture at it's best.. or what have you done for me lately culture. 

Let me tell you what My statement is wrapped in...  Not the meanderings of cancel culture.. but the resume' of people already in the hall. 

He's only been in the league for 4 years... compare his stats and accolades with:

Maurice Cheeks.

Sydney Moncrief. 

George McGinnis

Just about every europlayer in the Hall not named Dirk.

If after 4 years of play, his resume' can match these guys....  How does he not get in?

At some point... there has to be a line of reference for players making the Hall of fame.   You can't push back the line because you see Simmons coming.  It's possible that for the rest of his career, they snubb him from every allstar game and every All NBA team just so that he doesn't make it.  But what's the likelihood of that happening?

 

 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I don't think Embiid was anything but at his peak in terms of performance regardless of his injury status.  He wasn't slowed down at all.  I do agree we didn't dominate them.  Couple of calls or bounces go against us and we could have lost that series.  It was close and a thrilling vicotry.

Simmons isn't remotely close to the HOF right now.

You can read my point about HOF on the other post.   Moreover, I'm glad that you see the light on us dominating.  I get that statement from the people who believe that we are easily better than Philly.   100% they are the most defensive team in the land and we would have to hope that Nate outcoaches Doc again... and things fall apart. 

You say that Embiid wasn't slowed?  I beg to differ.  It could be timed with a stopwatch.  By the end of the third, Embiid was out of gas.   That's how we could come back from 20 something down.   He would dominated us for 2.5 quarters and for the rest of the game, he was no good inside.  He reverted to taking bad shots and playing lazy defense.   Was it the injury?  Was it conditioning?  Did the injury effect his conditioning??  I don't know.. but what I do know is that it was advantage Hawks.  Now.. if that same killer that was there for the first 2.5 quarters was there for all 4.. we would have been in deep trouble and may have been swept like gentlemen. 

 

[sturt]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

This is cancel culture at it's best.. or what have you done for me lately culture. 

Let me tell you what My statement is wrapped in...  Not the meanderings of cancel culture.. but the resume' of people already in the hall. 

He's only been in the league for 4 years... compare his stats and accolades with:

Maurice Cheeks.

Sydney Moncrief. 

George McGinnis

But, wait. Your words were explicitly, "if he stopped playing today."

You get that, right?

Are you asserting that Cheeks, Moncrief, McGinnis would have been "possibly locks" (again, using your words) for the HOF on the basis of only their first 4 years???

Now c'mon. Not even you believe that. That's why you're saying that, but then actually using their entire careers and the trajectory of their first four to try to buttress your conclusion.

 

Pardon the observation, but post after post after post, what you keep ignoring that I/we keep saying is that there is a very reasonable question right now as to whether Simmons has hit a speed bump in his career that ends up modifying his trajectory... and thus, modifying what his entire career looks like, ie, significantly less than your comparables.

None of your responses except for one insofar as I've caught it have spoken to the possibility that this episode ends up sending his career on an appreciably less attractive trajectory... and of course, saying in effect at least as I interpreted it, "It's okay if BS isn't good enough to put us over the top--Schlenk will just draft more rookie-scale contract super talents in the back end of the draft to make up for it."

*sigh*

[sturt]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

But the talk around here is that we dominated them.

Is it, though?

Or is it, "in light of them missing Danny Green, and us missing Dre and Cam, and assuming Simmons' headcase fights within himself, I like our chances if both were 100%,"

Of what I've read, it's definitely the latter, and not what you said. But maybe I need to read more.

[macdaddy]

Just a couple thoughts.   Simmons All star selection, at least this past season, was a joke.   Of course in the end that won't really matter but i think his chances of continuing to be an all star could be in jeopardy depending on where he lands.   

There have been a bunch of comments about Simmons being a 'baby' or whatever for wanting out.   I don't blame him at all for wanting out.  Doc absolutely through him under the bus.   Embiid didn't really support him and on top of that as others pointed out, just dumping the ball to Embiid doesn't really take advantage of what Simmons brings.  

I've argued vehemently against bringing him here because of the money and cost.   I'm not a big fan of Simmons at all.   But if he somehow made his way to Golden State then they probably go to the finals this year.   He's good.  I just don't want him.