Ben Simmons A Hawk? I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[RedDawg#8]

36 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The rest of the league is watching.   IF Ben is not being a professional, he's ruining his future.    Yes, his agent should act on some things... but His agent also has to draw the line and give him advice that will help him secure a better future. 

Just imagine.  Philly Calls the bluff.  Let Ben miss the whole year... force him to go to arbitration.    What team is going to give Ben a 100 Million dollar contract?  None.  He's lowering his value as we speak.. because he's showing that he's not professional. 

An Agent who doesn't advise i.e. make his client do better is not worth a damn!

 

Y'all should have listened to Noel, he tried to tell y'all about Rich Paul but y'all didn't want to listen lol

[sturt]

From Simmons' own perspective, this is where it's just damning to be under contract to a team in a city that, where sports are concerned, is the antithesis of a city of brotherly love. (Well, come to think of it, are we talking about me and my brother as kids, or as adults... huge difference... hehe).

Some cities, if not most, I think might just rally around the guy and show some optimism that the ATL series was a one-off. Or, at least, there would be a considerable faction who would take that perspective.

But for whatever reason, Philly is that city known for its venom even for its own, and it's not weird in the least to me that Simmons is determined to never wear the Sixer uni ever again... to the point of pushing millions of dollars back to the other side of the table and saying, "nah, no thanks." He's already a wealthy man, or it would be some weird. But his bank account is healthy enough, and truth be told, he does have some leverage in the fact that no team would ever choose to have a 35,000,000 pound weight on their payroll w/o any return for the accommodation... so Morey in reality has no choice but to keep lowering the asking price until a deal would be struck.

[marco102]

10 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Y'all should have listened to Noel, he tried to tell y'all about Rich Paul but y'all didn't want to listen lol

This is the exact opposite situation. Why are y'all blaming Paul for this?

[AHF]

11 hours ago, Diesel said:

The rest of the league is watching.   IF Ben is not being a professional, he's ruining his future.    Yes, his agent should act on some things... but His agent also has to draw the line and give him advice that will help him secure a better future. 

Just imagine.  Philly Calls the bluff.  Let Ben miss the whole year... force him to go to arbitration.    What team is going to give Ben a 100 Million dollar contract?  None.  He's lowering his value as we speak.. because he's showing that he's not professional. 

An Agent who doesn't advise i.e. make his client do better is not worth a damn!

 

Ben can stay away for as long as he wants but I don't see anything that he could go to arbitration on.  He is under contract and refusing to play so he just won't get paid.  

In defense of Paul, it is very possible that he loses money when Ben doesn't get paid so having Ben sit out actually reduces his cut on that contract.  (Sending the message that he has the power to move players between teams which is a selling point for him with other potential clients.)

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

From Simmons' own perspective, this is where it's just damning to be under contract to a team in a city that, where sports are concerned, is the antithesis of a city of brotherly love. (Well, come to think of it, are we talking about me and my brother as kids, or as adults... huge difference... hehe).

Some cities, if not most, I think might just rally around the guy and show some optimism that the ATL series was a one-off. Or, at least, there would be a considerable faction who would take that perspective.

But for whatever reason, Philly is that city known for its venom even for its own, and it's not weird in the least to me that Simmons is determined to never wear the Sixer uni ever again... to the point of pushing millions of dollars back to the other side of the table and saying, "nah, no thanks." He's already a wealthy man, or it would be some weird. But his bank account is healthy enough, and truth be told, he does have some leverage in the fact that no team would ever choose to have a 35,000,000 pound weight on their payroll w/o any return for the accommodation... so Morey in reality has no choice but to keep lowering the asking price until a deal would be struck.

I agree 100% and this is the primary take away for me.  I understand Ben is a bit of a diva and he is clearly without fault, but the way the entire city/franchise acts deserves a lot of the blame.  The culture there is just unbelievably toxic and while it doesn't change who people are, it definitely brings out the worst in them.  Doc deserves a ton of blame as well because he clearly has zero leadership skills and hasn't done much to make that relationship a good one.  The way he talks about Ben to the press is ...not ideal.

I'm not exonerating Simmons and his childishness either, but the way the organization has handled this entire situation has in large part led to the toxicity and drama that has lowered Simmons' trade value.  A professional org/business should not be stooping to the level of a guy that surrounds himself with instagram stars and tv show personalities.  If this situation was taking place in Atlanta, I would mostly be upset at our coach and front office.  

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

I agree 100% and this is the primary take away for me.  I understand Ben is a bit of a diva and he is clearly without fault, but the way the entire city/franchise acts deserves a lot of the blame.  The culture there is just unbelievably toxic and while it doesn't change who people are, it definitely brings out the worst in them.  Doc deserves a ton of blame as well because he clearly has zero leadership skills and hasn't done much to make that relationship a good one.  The way he talks about Ben to the press is ...not ideal.

I'm not exonerating Simmons and his childishness either, but the way the organization has handled this entire situation has in large part led to the toxicity and drama that has lowered Simmons' trade value.  A professional org/business should not be stooping to the level of a guy that surrounds himself with instagram stars and tv show personalities.  If this situation was taking place in Atlanta, I would mostly be upset at our coach and front office.  

It's the whole system in football and basketball. 

You blame Doc and Embiid.

I have always been against reporters who come along and stick and camera in a guys face the moment after he has just lost the big game and expects him to give a PC answer.   Hello Cam Newton. 

What is there to expect from somebody who just gave their all and come up short.   I think that there should be some time for the guys who lost to gather their composure before the reporters stick a mic in their hand a camera in their face and interrogate them about what could be the biggest lost. 

This goes into other sports too.. Hello ShaCarrie.

We vilify the players/coaches but we didn't have the right to ask the question or shouldn't have had the right to question them at that time either. 

[JeffS17]

11 minutes ago, Diesel said:

It's the whole system in football and basketball. 

You blame Doc and Embiid.

I have always been against reporters who come along and stick and camera in a guys face the moment after he has just lost the big game and expects him to give a PC answer.   Hello Cam Newton. 

What is there to expect from somebody who just gave their all and come up short.   I think that there should be some time for the guys who lost to gather their composure before the reporters stick a mic in their hand a camera in their face and interrogate them about what could be the biggest lost. 

This goes into other sports too.. Hello ShaCarrie.

We vilify the players/coaches but we didn't have the right to ask the question or shouldn't have had the right to question them at that time either. 

It's rough being right in front of reporters immediately after an emotional loss, and it's definitely a ripe opportunity to say something you don't really mean in the heat of the moment, but I don't think that was the case... they said how they felt, have no regrets about it, and have continued to double down shitting on Simmons.  If they spoke out in a moment of emotion, they could apologize, correct their statements, reverse course, or at least make it clear they don't actually put the entire series on Simmons.  Doc didn't do any of that.  Embiid I don't really blame, dude is just being honest out there even if it's not helping the situation.

Also, the post game pressers are not IMMEDIATELY after the loss ...like they have time to gather themselves, this is no richard sherman interview that was truly immediately after the game -- media appearance and presentation is also a hugely important part of the coach's job, unlikely players whose primary job is on the court.  I'm hesitant to blame reporters who although sometimes are shitty, are really there to help connect the audience/viewers with the players, teams, and front offices.  The reporters are just doing their jobs... only Doc is responsible for what comes out of his mouth.

[sturt]

30 minutes ago, Diesel said:

we didn't have the right to ask the question or shouldn't have had the right to question them at that time either. 

With you partially... there should be a higher ethical culture among sports journalists than there is, which isn't actually any different than saying there should be a higher ethical culture among... journalists. Period.

Can't go that far with you, though, to speak in terms of "rights." There are many things in our lives where we have, and should have the right to, for instance, say "f*** you." But there is a matter of maturity and decency and respectfulness that 99-ish% of the time ought to persuade any one of us to not.

[Diesel]

32 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

It's rough being right in front of reporters immediately after an emotional loss, and it's definitely a ripe opportunity to say something you don't really mean in the heat of the moment, but I don't think that was the case... they said how they felt, have no regrets about it, and have continued to double down shitting on Simmons.  If they spoke out in a moment of emotion, they could apologize, correct their statements, reverse course, or at least make it clear they don't actually put the entire series on Simmons.  Doc didn't do any of that.  Embiid I don't really blame, dude is just being honest out there even if it's not helping the situation.

Also, the post game pressers are not IMMEDIATELY after the loss ...like they have time to gather themselves, this is no richard sherman interview that was truly immediately after the game -- media appearance and presentation is also a hugely important part of the coach's job, unlikely players whose primary job is on the court.  I'm hesitant to blame reporters who although sometimes are shitty, are really there to help connect the audience/viewers with the players, teams, and front offices.  The reporters are just doing their jobs... only Doc is responsible for what comes out of his mouth.

Nope.

It was an emotional loss.  This was the same night.   This wasn't a week later.. or two week later... it was the same day... You can't process disappointment that fast. 

Dude even said... Hey Joel... I know it's fresh tonight....

 

[sturt]

New... and counterintuitive... thought for me, but someone most certainly beat me to it.

As much disdain as Simmons has gotten for that decision, zooming out and thinking about it on its face, it was actually a team-first and very cerebral in-the-moment decision if you let yourself think about it.

In fact, had there been a resulting dunk and a foul shot on the other end of the play, the fact that Simmons passed up the shot may have went into the highlight reel as evidence of his being cognizant of his own FT hiccups and unselfishness in giving the ball to Thybulle.

[Diesel]

34 minutes ago, sturt said:

With you partially... there should be a higher ethical culture among sports journalists than there is, which isn't actually any different than saying there should be a higher ethical culture among... journalists. Period.

Can't go that far with you, though, to speak in terms of "rights." There are many things in our lives where we have, and should have the right to, for instance, say "f*** you." But there is a matter of maturity and decency and respectfulness that 99-ish% of the time ought to persuade any one of us to not.

Well, let me put it this way...

The Leagues make players answer questions after a game.   It's forced.   This is how the league keeps it's relationship with the fans... after every game you can expect players win, lose, or draw to have to face the media. 

In the same moment, you expect players and coaches to put emotions aside and give the politically correct answer. 

They had just lost game 7.   That's another year trying to reach for a goal... down the drain.  Failure has never tasted good.  So on that same night that we just lost game 7 .... you ask questions that you know are inflammatory.   When Cam Newton walked off he was fined and villainized.  When Beastmode would come to press conferences and say Nothing he was vilified.  The Hoodie can get away with not speaking as long as his team keeps winning.  When Doc Rivers or Embiid open their mouth to say how they really feel in that moment.. they should have known better.   I can't wait for the day that players show up with a script of what they are supposed to say and just read off the script.  Then.... there will be an understanding of how dumb this is. 

I grew up on ABC sports.  They used to start their day by talking about "The thrill of Victory and The Agony of Defeat".   Defeat is agonizing... and the higher the stakes the more agony there is...  I can't blame these guys for being pissed and human.

 

 

 

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Nope.

It was an emotional loss.  This was the same night.   This wasn't a week later.. or two week later... it was the same day... You can't process disappointment that fast. 

Dude even said... Hey Joel... I know it's fresh tonight....

 

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

...have continued to double down shitting on Simmons.  If they spoke out in a moment of emotion, they could apologize, correct their statements, reverse course, or at least make it clear they don't actually put the entire series on Simmons.  Doc didn't do any of that....

This isn't about the statements they made the night of the loss.  Not only did they not clarify the statements they made were rash and in the moment, they have doubled down on those narratives.  So it's odd to me you want to pin this on the media/reporters.  

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

This isn't about the statements they made the night of the loss.  Not only did they not clarify the statements they made were rash and in the moment, they have doubled down on those narratives.  So it's odd to me you want to pin this on the media/reporters.  

Doc did try to reverse course when he made the we want Ben Back plea.. But it was met with unbelief..

And Honestly.. Doc has a whole team to be concerned with... he can't come back and say that he do believe that he can win with Simmons at the PG. 

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

This isn't about the statements they made the night of the loss.  Not only did they not clarify the statements they made were rash and in the moment, they have doubled down on those narratives.  So it's odd to me you want to pin this on the media/reporters.  

Given time to process the loss, I believe that Doc and Embiid would have given better answers. 

[terrell]

Ironically, game 7 of Hawks-Sixers is on NBA TV right now.. The beginning of the End...lol

[RedDawg#8]

8 hours ago, marco102 said:

This is the exact opposite situation. Why are y'all blaming Paul for this?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2948947-sources-new-developments-emerge-in-ben-simmons-philadelphia-76ers-standoff

Common denominators:

Client losing money

Same agent

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[RedDawg#8]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

This is what will force the action. Ben thought he was getting off easy, but now the bag is going away.

I love the fact Philly kept this play close to the vest as it was already public about him still getting his guaranteed check. They let him think that right up until payday.

Hit em hard in the pockets. His next move is to show up and fake injury.

Oh, the drama 

[sturt]

Came to the revelation just now that plausibly there is no single city for which yours truly holds greater repugnance than the city of the Flippies, the Iggles, and Sexers.

Had to share.

As you were.

[AHF]

On 10/1/2021 at 8:10 PM, RedDawg#8 said:

Hit em hard in the pockets. His next move is to show up and fake injury.

Oh, the drama 

The faking injury thing is the sort of thing that could really destroy your reputation.  https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ben-simmons-could-show-sixers-202838065.html

I want nothing to do with Simmons at this point even if we could get him for near free.  Looks like someone who is both extremely self-centered and has no ethical issues in lying to take money that he isn't earning (i.e., contractually isn't entitled to get when he is refusing to show up and give a good faith effort).

He and his agent are making some bad decisions right now.  If you want to force a trade just hold your ground and accept that you are going to lose some salary.  If you aren't willing to lose salary, then loudly demand a trade but show up and be a professional and then you get paid.  You don't get both.