Ben Simmons A Hawk? I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[hazer]

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

So now you use my red neck man gif and this. Should I retire from the site. You’re really cuttin me off at the knees here.

 

 Oh Siiii you have a  plethora! 

[AHF]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

No..

I stand by what i said.

I said.. we had game planned for Giannis.  We had a wall.   Milwaukee's offense revolved around what Giannis can do and while he was on the floor... the others stood by and watched.

When he went out...  everybody else stepped up.  WE did not game plan for that.  Not just Portis.. but Holiday.  Lopez... Middleton.... and the rest of them destroyed our defense.  Go and look at the numbers again... those last two games they had 4-5 guys in Double digit scoring (20+ Points).   That's not to say that they were better without Giannis.. but that says that we had a better chance against them when Giannis was in the game.  With Giannis in the game, we knew where the ball was going.  We knew what the play was going to be.. .we had a chance of stopping it.   With him out..  Sheez...  Maybe you Blocked it out of your mind.. .but Brook Lopez went Clean off on us.

IN their series with the Nets.. Portis averaged like 3.0 ppg.  Lopez  like 11.0 ppg.   What do you think happened in games 5 and 6 of our series??  I'd guess that Lopez averaged 30 ppg in those two. 

And some of yall actually think Bud made adjustments????  When has Bud ever made adjustments???  We have died on Bud's hills. 

Finally,  Milwaukee had an easy time with Phoenix and Giannis looked like the best player in the league because Phoenix refused to make a wall.   They thought Ayton could take him one on one. 

 

 

Like I said.  I think this is a one man opinion.  Definitely not representative of the board.  We all know the Bucks weren’t winning a ring without a Giannis return and weren’t beating us without a Trae injury and/or Giannis return.  

[Diesel]

The opinion has a hard time standing up against the FACTS...

Hawks Bucks... Game 1

STARTERS	MIN	FG	3PT	FT	OREB	DREB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	+/-	PTS
P.J. TuckerPF	35	2-3	0-0	0-0	3	4	7	2	0	0	0	3	-2	4
G. AntetokounmpoPF	41	14-25	0-2	6-8	4	8	12	9	2	2	3	4	+4	34
K. MiddletonSF	41	6-23	0-9	3-4	0	5	5	4	2	0	1	2	-13	15
B. LopezC	20	3-7	1-4	0-0	1	1	2	0	0	1	0	0	-14	7
J. HolidayPG	42	14-25	5-12	0-0	0	4	4	10	2	1	3	3	-3	33
BENCH	MIN	FG	3PT	FT	OREB	DREB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	+/-	PTS
B. PortisC	15	5-8	1-2	0-0	3	5	8	1	0	0	1	1	0	11
J. TeaguePG	6	0-1	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	+1	0
P. ConnaughtonSG	29	1-6	0-4	2-2	1	4	5	0	0	0	0	1	+4	4
B. ForbesSG	12	2-4	1-3	0-0	0	2	2	0	0	0	0	0	+8	5

 

Hawks Bucks Game 5

STARTERS	MIN	FG	3PT	FT	OREB	DREB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	+/-	PTS
P.J. TuckerPF	38	2-5	1-3	0-0	2	9	11	1	1	0	2	3	+14	5
K. MiddletonSF	45	10-20	2-6	4-5	3	10	13	8	2	1	1	2	+16	26
B. LopezC	38	14-18	0-2	5-7	4	3	7	0	2	4	2	2	+17	33
B. PortisC	36	9-20	1-3	3-6	3	5	8	3	3	0	0	2	+14	22
J. HolidayPG	42	9-20	3-8	4-5	2	4	6	13	1	0	2	1	+8	25
BENCH	MIN	FG	3PT	FT	OREB	DREB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	+/-	PTS
T. AntetokounmpoSF	3	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	3	-4	0
J. TeaguePG	4	0-1	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	3	0	0	1	0	0	0
P. ConnaughtonSG	21	3-7	1-4	2-2	0	1	1	0	1	0	0	4	-2	9
B. ForbesSG	14	1-4	1-3	0-0	0	1	1	0	0	0	0	0	-6	3
E. BryantSG	1	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	-2	0

 

Hawks Bucks Game 6

STARTERS	MIN	FG	3PT	FT	OREB	DREB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	+/-	PTS
P.J. TuckerPF	32	2-10	1-7	0-0	4	4	8	2	1	0	0	2	0	5
K. MiddletonSF	41	10-22	4-10	8-8	1	3	4	7	3	0	7	4	+3	32
B. LopezC	39	5-9	1-1	2-2	2	4	6	0	0	3	1	2	+25	13
B. PortisC	32	3-8	0-3	6-6	3	6	9	2	0	0	0	3	+11	12
J. HolidayPG	42	11-23	4-12	1-3	1	8	9	9	4	2	6	5	+13	27
BENCH	MIN	FG	3PT	FT	OREB	DREB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	+/-	PTS
T. AntetokounmpoSF	1	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	0
J. TeaguePG	12	3-5	3-3	2-2	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	4	+1	11
P. ConnaughtonSG	30	5-8	3-6	0-0	1	7	8	1	2	0	0	2	+5	13
B. ForbesSG	10	2-4	1-3	0-0	0	2	2	2	0	0	0	1	-3	5

 

These games were not blow outs.. There were no trash minutes given.   Game 1.. We won.  Extraordinary game from Trae.. but look at where the Bucks points came from.  Giannis and Holiday.   Everybody else was kept to a minimum.

IN a 2-2 Series.. we show up for game 5.... NO Giannis... Look at their scoring. Not only did Brook Lopez have a career day.. but Portis and Middleton showed up too. 

Game 6 was the Middleton Show.  But Teague and Connaughton showed up too. 

You can talk opinions all you like.  The facts are that without Giannis, these other guys stepped up.   That would not have happened had he stayed in the game... and we learned to win with him in the game.   Something that we didn't do so well with him out of the game.

And before you say Trae..  In game 5, we scored almost as many points as if Trae had played.  There was 4 points difference between game 1 and game 5... and we lost by 11.

[AHF]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

The opinion has a hard time standing up against the FACTS...

Hawks Bucks... Game 1

STARTERS	MIN	FG	3PT	FT	OREB	DREB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	+/-	PTS
P.J. TuckerPF	35	2-3	0-0	0-0	3	4	7	2	0	0	0	3	-2	4
G. AntetokounmpoPF	41	14-25	0-2	6-8	4	8	12	9	2	2	3	4	+4	34
K. MiddletonSF	41	6-23	0-9	3-4	0	5	5	4	2	0	1	2	-13	15
B. LopezC	20	3-7	1-4	0-0	1	1	2	0	0	1	0	0	-14	7
J. HolidayPG	42	14-25	5-12	0-0	0	4	4	10	2	1	3	3	-3	33
BENCH	MIN	FG	3PT	FT	OREB	DREB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	+/-	PTS
B. PortisC	15	5-8	1-2	0-0	3	5	8	1	0	0	1	1	0	11
J. TeaguePG	6	0-1	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	+1	0
P. ConnaughtonSG	29	1-6	0-4	2-2	1	4	5	0	0	0	0	1	+4	4
B. ForbesSG	12	2-4	1-3	0-0	0	2	2	0	0	0	0	0	+8	5

 

Hawks Bucks Game 5

STARTERS	MIN	FG	3PT	FT	OREB	DREB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	+/-	PTS
P.J. TuckerPF	38	2-5	1-3	0-0	2	9	11	1	1	0	2	3	+14	5
K. MiddletonSF	45	10-20	2-6	4-5	3	10	13	8	2	1	1	2	+16	26
B. LopezC	38	14-18	0-2	5-7	4	3	7	0	2	4	2	2	+17	33
B. PortisC	36	9-20	1-3	3-6	3	5	8	3	3	0	0	2	+14	22
J. HolidayPG	42	9-20	3-8	4-5	2	4	6	13	1	0	2	1	+8	25
BENCH	MIN	FG	3PT	FT	OREB	DREB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	+/-	PTS
T. AntetokounmpoSF	3	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	3	-4	0
J. TeaguePG	4	0-1	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	3	0	0	1	0	0	0
P. ConnaughtonSG	21	3-7	1-4	2-2	0	1	1	0	1	0	0	4	-2	9
B. ForbesSG	14	1-4	1-3	0-0	0	1	1	0	0	0	0	0	-6	3
E. BryantSG	1	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	-2	0

 

Hawks Bucks Game 6

STARTERS	MIN	FG	3PT	FT	OREB	DREB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	+/-	PTS
P.J. TuckerPF	32	2-10	1-7	0-0	4	4	8	2	1	0	0	2	0	5
K. MiddletonSF	41	10-22	4-10	8-8	1	3	4	7	3	0	7	4	+3	32
B. LopezC	39	5-9	1-1	2-2	2	4	6	0	0	3	1	2	+25	13
B. PortisC	32	3-8	0-3	6-6	3	6	9	2	0	0	0	3	+11	12
J. HolidayPG	42	11-23	4-12	1-3	1	8	9	9	4	2	6	5	+13	27
BENCH	MIN	FG	3PT	FT	OREB	DREB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	+/-	PTS
T. AntetokounmpoSF	1	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	0
J. TeaguePG	12	3-5	3-3	2-2	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	4	+1	11
P. ConnaughtonSG	30	5-8	3-6	0-0	1	7	8	1	2	0	0	2	+5	13
B. ForbesSG	10	2-4	1-3	0-0	0	2	2	2	0	0	0	1	-3	5

 

These games were not blow outs.. There were no trash minutes given.   Game 1.. We won.  Extraordinary game from Trae.. but look at where the Bucks points came from.  Giannis and Holiday.   Everybody else was kept to a minimum.

IN a 2-2 Series.. we show up for game 5.... NO Giannis... Look at their scoring. Not only did Brook Lopez have a career day.. but Portis and Middleton showed up too. 

Game 6 was the Middleton Show.  But Teague and Connaughton showed up too. 

You can talk opinions all you like.  The facts are that without Giannis, these other guys stepped up.   That would not have happened had he stayed in the game... and we learned to win with him in the game.   Something that we didn't do so well with him out of the game.

And before you say Trae..  In game 5, we scored almost as many points as if Trae had played.  There was 4 points difference between game 1 and game 5... and we lost by 11.

By your logic, we were better without Trae because we had a better net score.  You are never going to convince me that the Bucks got some big benefit in the matchup against us when they lost their MVP.  Game 5 was unsustainable for us and the Bucks are a much worse team over a sustainable period of time without Giannis.  If you are talking about what happens over just a few games, there is enough randomness that there is little that you can’t see there.  We’ve all seen teams that featured Holiday more extensively and how much worse they were but on a given night that can work.

[kg01]

10 hours ago, hazer said:

@Spud2nique is like ....

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

By your logic, we were better without Trae because we had a better net score.  You are never going to convince me that the Bucks got some big benefit in the matchup against us when they lost their MVP.  Game 5 was unsustainable for us and the Bucks are a much worse team over a sustainable period of time without Giannis.  If you are talking about what happens over just a few games, there is enough randomness that there is little that you can’t see there.  We’ve all seen teams that featured Holiday more extensively and how much worse they were but on a given night that can work.

That's a misread of logic.  I said that they found a better matchup for our defense.

It's like when you play a small ball team so instead of keeping Clint and JC as the 5 and 4 we would go to a much bigger lineup...  Does that mean that we're better without Clint and JC???  Hell No.  That means that against that lineup we have a better matchup.

Go examine the LOGIC...

 

[AHF]

Just now, Diesel said:

That's a misread of logic.  I said that they found a better matchup for our defense.

It's like when you play a small ball team so instead of keeping Clint and JC as the 5 and 4 we would go to a much bigger lineup...  Does that mean that we're better without Clint and JC???  Hell No.  That means that against that lineup we have a better matchup.

Go examine the LOGIC...

 

I don't buy the logic.  Milwaukee is better on both ends of the floor with Giannis.  To the extent that the solution is to shift offense to Middleton and Holiday (much more erratic performers), you can always do that at any time.  

Going to have to agree to disagree on this.

My point wasn't to argue this with you but to point out that your view was not representative of the view of the board.  I'm not sure there is anyone else who thinks our chances of winning the Milwaukee series got worse when Giannis went out.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

By your logic, we were better without Trae because we had a better net score.  You are never going to convince me that the Bucks got some big benefit in the matchup against us when they lost their MVP.  Game 5 was unsustainable for us and the Bucks are a much worse team over a sustainable period of time without Giannis.  If you are talking about what happens over just a few games, there is enough randomness that there is little that you can’t see there.  We’ve all seen teams that featured Holiday more extensively and how much worse they were but on a given night that can work.

Game 5... They scored at will.  From everywhere. 

We didn't suffer in game 5 from a lack of scoring.  We suffered in game 5 because we couldn't stop them from scoring. 

They shot 50.5% from the field in game 5.

In game 1, when Giannis played, they shot 46% from the field. 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I don't buy the logic.  Milwaukee is better on both ends of the floor with Giannis.  To the extent that the solution is to shift offense to Middleton and Holiday (much more erratic performers), you can always do that at any time.  

Going to have to agree to disagree on this.

My point wasn't to argue this with you but to point out that your view was not representative of the view of the board.  I'm not sure there is anyone else who thinks our chances of winning the Milwaukee series got worse when Giannis went out.

The Board has been wrong before.  At the point when you tried to show that it's not the "representative view of the board"... You and others treated my point as though it has NO MERIT....  BUT My point is filled with Merit.  Just because you agree to disagree doesn't mean that it's meritless.  That's the problem with cancel culture and mob mentality.   You don't give room for other arguments that do have merit.   I stand on what I said because if you want to say that it lacks logic or merit then you have to prove it with the facts...  Something which you or anybody has yet to do.   Just going out and trying to disagree with something by belittling it doesn't make your point better or true.   The point still remains... We had an easier time defending the MVP...  We had a much more difficult time trying to stop "the others" that stepped up in his absence because we had no game plan for them.   Hence is the reason why Brook Lopez went from 7 pts to 33 pts.  Why Portis who averaged 3 ppg vs. BKLN looked like a bonafide starter against us in those last 2 games. 

 

[AHF]

16 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Game 5... They scored at will.  From everywhere. 

We didn't suffer in game 5 from a lack of scoring.  We suffered in game 5 because we couldn't stop them from scoring. 

They shot 50.5% from the field in game 5.

In game 1, when Giannis played, they shot 46% from the field. 

Tony Delk scored 50 points in a game.  What happens in a single game is not a meaningful predictor of future results.  Middleton, Holiday and Lopez all had standout games.  That rarely happens in the same game with or without Giannis.  

In Game 5, Middleton, Holiday and Lopez put up a combined 84 points on 57% fg%.

You are making the case that this is sustainable.

 

Middleton, Holiday and Lopez played in 8 other games without Giannis last season.  In those games, they averaged 58.25 points on 48.5% fg%.

 

I don't buy that Middleton, Holiday and Lopez could beat the Hawks without Giannis over a full series with a healthy Trae or that they could maintain that game 5 performance in any case.

 

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Tony Delk scored 50 points in a game.  What happens in a single game is not a meaningful predictor of future results.  Middleton, Holiday and Lopez all had standout games.  That rarely happens in the same game with or without Giannis.  

In that game, they put up a combined 84 points on 57% fg%.

You are making the case that this is sustainable.

 

Middleton, Holiday and Lopez played 8 other games without Giannis last season.  In those games, they averaged 58.25 points on 48.5% fg%.

 

I don't buy that Middleton, Holiday and Lopez could beat the Hawks without Giannis over a full series with a healthy Trae or that they could maintain that game 5 performance in any case.

 

Nice deflection with something irrelevant.   We're talking about Game 5 with a 2-2 series.  Not Tony Delk having a career day and the other team not caring.   Our defense couldn't get up for a game 5 with everything on the line... when Giannis is gone?  What you saw was not some random set of events, it was guys who had it in their mind that without Giannis, I have to step up.  Without Giannis, my number will be called.   

Some NBA stars have the ability to take all the attention on offense.  I think that's Giannis.  That's why he was the MVP..  But the MVP can be hindered by a Wall.   Miami proved this.  They learned his spots... defended them and took their chances that Milwaukee couldn't hit their threes consistently... and it worked.  Milwaukee retooled with Jrue Holiday.. but they are still susceptible to the same thing.  If Middleton is not feeling like hitting shots, Milwaukee losses to the wall (when Giannis plays).   

When Giannis doesn't play... others step up... Others who are impervious to a Wall.    That's why we lost game 5.  Our gameplan had to go out the window.. but what do you do when the other team has new ways of attacking your defense?  Make Adjustments?  How?  We didn't have the personnel to deal with what they were doing.  Even in game 6 with the surprising play of Cam... it wasn't enough. 

 

 

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Nice deflection with something irrelevant.   We're talking about Game 5 with a 2-2 series.  Not Tony Delk having a career day and the other team not caring.   Our defense couldn't get up for a game 5 with everything on the line... when Giannis is gone?  What you saw was not some random set of events, it was guys who had it in their mind that without Giannis, I have to step up.  Without Giannis, my number will be called.   

Some NBA stars have the ability to take all the attention on offense.  I think that's Giannis.  That's why he was the MVP..  But the MVP can be hindered by a Wall.   Miami proved this.  They learned his spots... defended them and took their chances that Milwaukee couldn't hit their threes consistently... and it worked.  Milwaukee retooled with Jrue Holiday.. but they are still susceptible to the same thing.  If Middleton is not feeling like hitting shots, Milwaukee losses to the wall (when Giannis plays).   

When Giannis doesn't play... others step up... Others who are impervious to a Wall.    That's why we lost game 5.  Our gameplan had to go out the window.. but what do you do when the other team has new ways of attacking your defense?  Make Adjustments?  How?  We didn't have the personnel to deal with what they were doing.  Even in game 6 with the surprising play of Cam... it wasn't enough. 

 

 

How did you ignore the fact that Game 5 was a huge outlier among the 9 game sample last season?

Tony Delk was the illustration that game to game performance is highly variable which is not at all irrelevant.  The performance of Holiday, Middleton and Lopez was probably the single best combined performance by those players during the entire year with or without Giannis.  It was not sustainable.  

Again, 84 points on 57% shooting is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...(wait for it)....aaaayyyyyyyyy better than anything they did over the 8 other games that Giannis missed.  

We lost Game 5 because (a) Trae was out and (b) those 3 got way hotter than they can be expected to get in a normal game.  

(Milwaukee won 66% of games with Giannis and 55% without him last year even after everyone saw what Miami did in the bubble.)

[Spud2nique]

11 hours ago, hazer said:

well… well..

Jbap  

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

@Spud2nique is like ....

Put me down as officially scared .. (and horny). 

[kg01]

6 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

well… well..

Jbap  

You and @hazer gettin' it on while dieso and @AHF are really gettin' it on.

Come on @Diesel, AH didn't hear no bell ...

Edited September 8, 2021 by kg01

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

well… well..

Jbap  

Lol. I’m not good at pulling off a Haze immi as shown above. There’s too many magical twirly wurlyness going on with the  ✍ along with a Spanglish/ italiano going on with it.

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

You and @hazer gettin' it on while dieso and @AHF are really gettin' it on.

Come on @Diesel, AH didn't hear no bell ...

Haze is just wearing everything in my closet. Could he beeeeeee any more Spudly? 
 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Haze is just wearing everything in my closet. Could he beeeeeee any more Spudly? 
 

I see no evidence you aren't also @hazer.  I also see no evidence have isn't kg01. 

[hazer]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

I see no evidence you aren't also @hazer.  I also see no evidence have isn't kg01. 

Blowing our cover, let’s just go back to them thinking Cagey-Wan and Hazer are burners. Will ban the 3 of us if they catch on  

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

How did you ignore the fact that Game 5 was a huge outlier among the 9 game sample last season?

Tony Delk was the illustration that game to game performance is highly variable which is not at all irrelevant.  The performance of Holiday, Middleton and Lopez was probably the single best combined performance by those players during the entire year with or without Giannis.  It was not sustainable.  

Again, 84 points on 57% shooting is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...(wait for it)....aaaayyyyyyyyy better than anything they did over the 8 other games that Giannis missed.  

We lost Game 5 because (a) Trae was out and (b) those 3 got way hotter than they can be expected to get in a normal game.  

(Milwaukee won 66% of games with Giannis and 55% without him last year even after everyone saw what Miami did in the bubble.)

Since, you want to make the Tony Delk 53 points... let's talk about it.

Delk... Played his former team on Jan 2, 2001.  They lost this game in overtime.   Tony Delk hit NO THREE POINTERS.  This was all drive and score.   He shot 15 FTs.   Sacramento's Best interior Defender... Chris Webber played just 7 minutes.   They replaced C-Webbs interior defense with Scott Pollard.  Porous sieve like defense at best. 

Delk had the perfect storm working for him.  He had the hot hand... he had nothing stopping him from driving the lane and getting either a score or to the FT line... and Jason Kidd is the type of PG that will continue to feed the hot hand until it's stopped. 

I'm sure everytime you replace C-Webb with Scott Pollard and whatever defense Lawrence Funderburke could muster.... Tony Delk (feeling like he needs to sure up his old team) will go for big points.   But Just for grins.. in his next encounter against the same team.. C-Webb played 43 Minutes and Delk only scored 6 points.   And the time after that Delk scored 10 points on 29% shooting. 

It's randomness.  Not by design.  When Giannis went out, other guys stepped up.. Not random. 

You say we lost because Trae went out.

Does Trae make our defense better??  They shot 50.5% with Trae and Giannis out.... Does having Trae change that... in ANY WAY?  My thought is that with Trae in the game, they may have shot 55%.  Would Trae have stopped Lopez from Bullying our Big on all those lobs?   Would Trae have done anything to stop their interior scoring?  They scored 66 points in the paint.   That's better than they averaged when Giannis played. 

Trae would have gave us more scoring opp... OK.. But when he played and had his best game against Milwaukee... We scored 116 points.  Game 5, we scored 112 points.  Remember game 1, Trae scored 48 points.  Without his 48, we still scored 112.  He would have helped us with points, but our problem wasn't scoring.. our problem was stopping them from scoring.  50.5% tp 46%... that's the problem.