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Noel sues Rich Paul


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27 minutes ago, kg01 said:

A lot of people don't like him because it's perceived that he only has his position because he's Lebron's friend.

Oddly, people that feel that way completely ignore other instances of nepotism and cronyism in the world.

I'll leave it at that to avoid going too political.

Well god damnit I’m going to take it there 😂

We not going to pretend like coaches’ sons don’t get opportunities to coach because they are so and so’s son. 

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2 hours ago, marco102 said:

To me, it seems like a lot here are just assuming Noel is telling the truth. I'd like to see this play out in court before making Rich Paul out to be this terrible agent. 

Not saying Noel isn't telling the truth, but there are a lot of RP is crap in this thread and already assuming he is guilty. 

You have to actually see how discovery plays out.  I'm not saying it is true - just that if it is true the allegation that RP didn't return calls, etc. shouldn't be hard to prove.

The only things I take for sure as true are:  (1) Noel made a huge mistake turning down that $70M; (2) RP did him no favors in the contracts he got while represented by them (they were so low it is hard to conceive of how you could do worse); and (3) Noel is clearly unhappy with the way things worked out.

It may well be that RP has explanations for why he couldn't do better than what he did for Noel but it is a bad look regardless.

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21 hours ago, capstone21 said:

Says a lot about Paul.  You would think a dude who was selling jerseys out of his car would take his situation more seriously and treat all his clients with respect.

He's probably focused on non-Nba deals for his big clients. Trying to bring up Noel's stock might've been eating into Lebron and AD's more lucrative off-court sponsorships.

Pretty scummy.

 

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Noel had to know it was a gamble and then he got hurt.  I don't know.  I definitely think he chose the wrong agent but the suit assumes that if Paul had worked harder he would have found a better deal for him.   I don't know about that.   I don't think the advice being wrong is something he can win on.   It would have to be negligence right?

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Just now, macdaddy said:

Noel had to know it was a gamble and then he got hurt.  I don't know.  I definitely think he chose the wrong agent but the suit assumes that if Paul had worked harder he would have found a better deal for him.   I don't know about that.   I don't think the advice being wrong is something he can win on.   It would have to be negligence right?

Causation is going to be a big challenge in cases like this so I think trying to get the $70M he passed on or something is a lost cause. 

Likely he would have to show that other teams were prepared to offer or did in fact offer something better than what he got or that Paul's team fraudulently induced him to stay with promises like:

Quote

Noel says he considered dropping Paul as his agent in 2020, but was convinced to stay by Klutch agent Lucas Newton, whom Noel claims told him the Thunder were planning to offer a three-year deal worth $7-10 million per year.

Bear in mind that what he got was:

Pre-Paul:

$70M, 4 year offer from Dallas

Paul Era

$1.7M one-year

$2M one-year

$5M one-year

After-Paul

$32M, 3 year deal from NY

If he can prove things like this he may very well have a case:

Quote

Noel says he later learned from Brett Brown, his former coach with the Philadelphia 76ers, that the Sixers attempted to contact Paul about signing Noel only to not have any of their calls taken or returned. Noel claims he learned of other teams encountering the same reception.

If Brown testified to this and that the Sixers were prepared to offer a two-year $20M deal or something but didn't have their calls returned and Noel ended up signing a $2M deal instead, then he could have a good case.

It is going to have to be more than simply getting bad advice to bet on yourself.

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That's pretty amazing but you wonder if it really happens like that.   I mean do GMs decide "Let's try to sign player x"  and then when they don't get a call back from the agent just say "oh well we tried".    I mean there is a really small pool of players to pick from.   Seems like if a team wanted someone it wouldn't be that hard to get in touch with them. 

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40 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

That's pretty amazing but you wonder if it really happens like that.   I mean do GMs decide "Let's try to sign player x"  and then when they don't get a call back from the agent just say "oh well we tried".    I mean there is a really small pool of players to pick from.   Seems like if a team wanted someone it wouldn't be that hard to get in touch with them. 

I'm sure Paul's attorneys will make arguments just like that which go more to causation of damages and less to whether Paul was or wasn't grossly negligent (which is what I'd call not returning calls).  Elsewhere in the article, it does mention that Noel ultimately signed for much less than he wanted not through Paul's efforts but by working around his agent and getting directly recruited by players.  

I wouldn't be shocked it if did work like that sometimes, though.  Teams are out there talking to a bunch of different people as fast as they can to try to snag guys while they have money to spend.  They might be interested in Noel at $10M, Redick at $15M, etc. and once you sign one of them then you are done with the big cash guys and are on to your list of players you've budgeted for $3-4M, etc.  If a guy won't return your calls, you assume he isn't interested and keep working down your list of targets.  Moreover, you know if you reach out directly to a player that his agent is likely to burn you not just on this deal but on others because negotiating directly with an agent's client is very much not accepted practice. 

That scenario is more about the early days of FA and less about what is happening weeks into it but guys like Dennis and Noel can go from big $$ offers to garbage when they miss that initial window.

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According to sources, Paul recently filed a grievance to the Players Association that Noel owes him $200,000 as commission for the one-year, $5 million deal he signed with the Knicks during last November’s free agency.

Industry sources believe Paul’s grievance may have been the impetus in Noel filing a $58 million lawsuit against Paul on Tuesday, claiming Paul was negligent in representing him.

Noel fired Paul soon after signing with the Knicks and did not pay his bill, the grievance states.

 

things-that-make-you-go-hmmm-gif-2.gif

 

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On 8/25/2021 at 3:23 PM, EazyRoc said:

Because weirdly enough, a lot of people don’t like Rich Paul for some reason and this story just confirms their pre-existing biases.

Agreed..

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59 minutes ago, terrell said:

Agreed..

Plus he objectively did a s*** job for Noel.  Advising him not to take the offer from Dallas was garbage.  Two minimum salary one year deals were garbage.  After he had shown out well in OKC the 1 year, $5M deal was garbage.  Noel could have earned $100M (the 70M Dallas deal and $32M Knicks deal) from non-Paul agreements but got less than 9M over three years with Paul.  Even if there is no legal cause of action that is garbage.

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On 8/25/2021 at 2:30 PM, marco102 said:

To me, it seems like a lot here are just assuming Noel is telling the truth. I'd like to see this play out in court before making Rich Paul out to be this terrible agent. 

Not saying Noel isn't telling the truth, but there are a lot of RP is crap in this thread and already assuming he is guilty. 

There is the point that Noel didn't bring out this lawsuit until Rich Paul demanded to be paid from what Noel got from the Knicks.   Supposedly, Noel is withholding RP's payment. 

 

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10 hours ago, Diesel said:

There is the point that Noel didn't bring out this lawsuit until Rich Paul demanded to be paid from what Noel got from the Knicks.   Supposedly, Noel is withholding RP's payment. 

 

I think that isn't even in dispute.  The real question is whether Noel owes it if RP was not meeting basic standards of professionalism for an agent.  It is like refusing to pay a contractor who did a garbage job renovating your kitchen.  You got the bill and refused to pay.  You signed a contract agreeing to pay.  But if the contractor failed to build to code or otherwise failed to meet the minimum standards or actively breached the agreement, you may have a good defense against needing to pay and even a potential counterclaim for damages which is really what we are seeing with this suit.

If Noel can't establish causation or good proof of a breach, this could very well end up being a pyrrhic victory for Paul where his terrible work for Noel gets splashed across the press and he ends up with $200k from Noel.  There is a very real scenario where Paul indisputably did a garbage job but didn't actually go so far as to breach the contract and still gets his cut.  

I have a very hard time seeing how Paul comes out of this looking good when you look at the contracts he landed for Noel and what other agents have gotten for Noel.

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On 8/25/2021 at 4:03 PM, kg01 said:

A lot of people don't like him because it's perceived that he only has his position because he's Lebron's friend.

Oddly, people that feel that way completely ignore other instances of nepotism and cronyism in the world.

I'll leave it at that to avoid going too political.

That's true. But some forms of nepotism are more accepted than others. For example, coaches giving their son a job on the staff. With LeBron, it's basically his friends from back home, so that's probably frowned upon a bit more, fair or not. LeBron might end up being too old to leverage an NBA deal for his son Bronny, who is only 6'2". We will see though. 

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