The last roster spot

[GameTime]

TLC is back in Atlanta!

[sturt]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

LMAO.  I have not idea where you came up with this.  What is the next question for me, when did you stop beating your wife?*

I just told you that our GM announced that he had settled on our opening night roster the day before the NBA season officially opens and I'm ok with him having settled on TLC for that opening night spot rather than keeping the door open that TLC might be cut before opening night so that we could sign Aminu or something.  

What didn't hurt my head was TS effectively signaling that he isn't going to consider swapping TLC out for any of these recently cut players (or any players who foreseeably will be cut) before opening night (3 days later for Atlanta).  TLC doesn't excite me at all but if TS thinks he is a better option for our roster than any of these other players, Travis has earned my trust.

All of that has exactly nothing to do with Hunter being an injury concern.  I'm not content with any of our players being a continuing injury concern.  What I want or what TS wants for Dre's health is irrelevant.  What is relevant for roster construction is his actual health.  So it doesn't hurt my head if TS signals he is filling the 15th spot with TLC on an unguaranteed contract if Hunter is healthy and it actually makes even more sense if Dre is an injury concern so TS making the right moves to give us depth wouldn't hurt my head either.

The bottomline is that the downside to this announcement is closing the door on signing available alternative players and as I said:

 

 

While I was kinda-to-somewhat serious in that post, I wasn't nearly so serious as all of this seems to indicate you'd thought.

So, soberly, make no mistake, I believe you when you say you're "not content with any of our players being a continuing injury concern." Truly. Seriously. I do.

MY implicit issue (I thought obviously) is that no one (media or here, other than me it seems) is talking about the implication of the roster decision... and that (yet again) we have to figure it out for ourselves that there is a health issue still bothering a player we're counting on in a big way. Your post... and I hasten to say I apologize for using your words as I did... was merely a platform to call attention to what a major "announcement" it was when the 15th player's identity was made public... though in actions not so much words, since the words "Dre is still having trouble, and we need some insurance" hasn't yet come out of anyone's mouth from inside the Hawks deep state.

Nothing anyone can do about that, of course, but whine and kick dirt. But whine and kick dirt, we should... at least those of us who believe Dre's absence is a primary reason we didn't get to the Finals last time, and I'm one.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

While I was kinda-to-somewhat serious in that post, I wasn't nearly so serious as all of this seems to indicate you'd thought.

So, soberly, make no mistake, I believe you when you say you're "not content with any of our players being a continuing injury concern." Truly. Seriously. I do.

MY implicit issue (I thought obviously) is that no one's (media or here, other than me it seems) is talking about the implication of the roster decision... and that (yet again) we have to figure it out for ourselves that there is a health issue still bothering a player we're counting on in a big way. Your post... and I hasten to say I apologize for using your words as I did... was merely a platform to call attention to what a major "announcement" it was when the 15th player's identity was made public... though in actions not so much words, since the words "Dre is still having trouble, and we need some insurance" hasn't yet come out of anyone's mouth from inside the Hawks deep state.

Your point about Dre's health being a reason for concern is a good one for discussion.  TLC is maybe a canary in the well on that but I think we are all going to be watching this very closely when the season starts.

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, sturt said:

MY implicit issue (I thought obviously) is that no one (media or here, other than me it seems) is talking about the implication of the roster decision... and that (yet again) we have to figure it out for ourselves that there is a health issue still bothering a player we're counting on in a big way.

Our roster makeup, as I've noted in another thread is the same as it was last year in terms of bigs. 

Center: Clint, Bruno, OO (injured to start)  vs Clint, Dieng, OO (injured to start)

Power Forwards: JC, Gallo, Hill and Johnson (we actually have one more big in Johnson)

TLC is filling Snell's and Dunn's role.

It has been mentioned - Hunter's knee holding up will be our 'x' factor.

[sturt]

@JayBirdHawk I did see you make that point, and it is valid (except for one mostly insignificant detail).

But I'm just going on what the GM himself said... and I'm pretty sure you know I'm not making it up.

Schlenk distinctly said in that most recent Zoom presser that he thought it was obvious that the roster as it stood then was skewed heavy on guards, and that he would probably be inclined to add another big.

It's not wrong, in my opinion, to think Schlenk doesn't change his mind without something prompting it.

What prompted it?

Well, it's not as-if TLC's preseason performance blew everyone away. (Am I wrong?)

And it is as-if we've known all along that there remain some health concerns/questions due to Hunter's knee swelling after games.

So here we are, not where Schlenk thought we'd be.

 

  

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It has been mentioned - Hunter's knee holding up will be our 'x' factor.

Perhaps. I don't read every thread like some people appear to do... sue me ... but my sense is it hasn't been mentioned in the context of starting the damn season with the problem, or at least, not bad enough that a roster slot would need to be dedicated to insurance.

 

_________________________________________________

 

That (truly) insignificant detail? It's that Schlenk's math appears to always count two-ways. The only way you could look at our roster of 14--with 5 guys who ever play SG with any regularity--and say it skews heavier toward guards is to count Cooper and Mays. Otherwise, it's a dead even 5 guards, 6 bigs (1 injured) and 3 whose best assignment is SF. So, Knight would be counted in that math, and that puts the big count at dead-even year over year.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, sturt said:

Schlenk distinctly said in that most recent Zoom presser that he thought it was obvious that the roster as it stood then was skewed heavy on guards, and that he would probably be inclined to add another big.

Inclined yes, definitely will add No.....and he didn't.  Possible reasons other that Hunter's knee (which EVERYBODY is monitoring closely):  OO as he has indicated (he hopes to be back by December although TS said otherwise) may be back sooner than originally thought...maybe the scraps on the market at Centre is not something Nate was interested in....maybe after seeing Jalen Johnson up close they will give give some PF minutes which slides Collins and/or Gallo some C minutes (not realistic, but you never know).

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, sturt said:

my sense is it hasn't been mentioned in the context of starting the damn season with the problem,

Noted and discussed after final preseason game.

 

 

[sturt]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Possible reasons

(1) OO as he has indicated (he hopes to be back by December although TS said otherwise) may be back sooner than originally thought...

(2) maybe the scraps on the market at Centre is not something Nate was interested in....

(3) maybe after seeing Jalen Johnson up close they will give give some PF minutes which slides Collins and/or Gallo some C minutes (not realistic, but you never know).

Now c'mon.

(1) Even assuming Big2O is back in a month, whoever is the 15th man on a min non-guaranteed contract would have no bearing on the situation on October 18th, many games before that. (You know that. Why am I having to say it?)

 

(2a) Schlenk didn't specify a C. He said a big. (Again... you know that.) And there's good reason to think the smarter play would be a PF anyhow, but regardless...

(2b) Whatever "scraps" were on the market among the bigs, who's saying TLC is so outstanding a wing as to distinguish himself from "scraps" status?

 

(3) Of the three ideas, this one is far and away the best grounded now that Gallo's opening night health has become an issue....

...and yet... but... then... that only should lead to the conclusion... again... that you still need another player who can be the 5th big.

Johnson needs minutes. And he's not getting them as the 5th big in SFA. That didn't seem lost on Schlenk when he made his comment a month ago, and it's difficult to make a case why that would have changed now.

 

No. You're grasping at straws, my friend. No other reasonable way to interpret the roster move.

 

19 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Noted and discussed after final preseason game.

So noted. Game threads just aren't usually my thing. Preseason game threads really aren't usually my thing.... hehe.

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, sturt said:

Now c'mon.

(1) Even assuming Big2O is back in a month, whoever is the 15th man on a min non-guaranteed contract would have no bearing on the situation on October 18th, many games before that. (You know that. Why am I having to say it?)

 

(2a) Schlenk didn't specify a C. He said a big. (Again... you know that.) And there's good reason to think the smarter play would be a PF anyhow, but regardless...

(2b) Whatever "scraps" were on the market among the bigs, who's saying TLC is so outstanding a wing as to distinguish himself from "scraps" status?

 

(3) Of the three ideas, this one is far and away the best grounded now that Gallo's opening night health has become an issue....

...and yet... but... then... that only should lead to the conclusion... again... that you still need another player who can be the 5th big.

Johnson needs minutes. And he's not getting them as the 5th big in SFA. That didn't seem lost on Schlenk when he made his comment a month ago, and it's difficult to make a case why that would have changed now.

 

No. You're grasping at straws, my friend. No other reasonable way to interpret the roster move.

 

So noted. Game threads just aren't usually my thing. Preseason game threads really aren't usually my thing.... hehe.

 

Even looking back to last season - with the possibility of Clint not being available for opening night (Clint missed the 1st 2 games) and OO out...we did not sign any 'extra bigs'  We rolled with JC, Gallo, Bruno, Solo, Knight on opening night.

You keep referencing Schlenk's comments as if it was carved in stone forever and eternity that he was DEFINITELY signing an additional big.

No grasping, just reading the tea leaves as they were presented by those that cover the Hawks, not saying they cannot and are never wrong but taking stroll down memory lane:

 

Just seemed to me he had a greater shot at making the team over Okafor. 

You also made note via a podcast you heard that the hosts were 'sure' that TLC had the 15th spot locked up.

 

[sturt]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You keep referencing Schlenk's comments as if it was carved in stone forever and eternity that he was DEFINITELY signing an additional big.

Nah. I keep referencing Schlenk's comments as-if it was his stated intention, and, that he pretty much does what he says he's going to do unless there's some new unanticipated development.

Most of those are my exact words at one point or another. And they're not wrong.

And that's what's happened... an unanticipated development.

The proposition that it's not all about Hunter is the actual dispute here, as far as I can decipher. And yet, given the process of deduction, there is no other plausible option. One gets the sense that, for whatever reason, TLC is a pet cat of yours, that you think he won the job because he's shown so much. It happens. It's okay. I just would be one to just admit that, me. If not that, I have no clue why this is so important to you to dispute.

[JayBirdHawk]

26 minutes ago, sturt said:

Nah. I keep referencing Schlenk's comments as-if it was his stated intention, and, that he pretty much does what he says he's going to do unless there's some new unanticipated development.

 

operative word...........Might!

 

 

 

 

[sturt]

*sigh*

Again.

The difference in opinion is not whether something happened to change his mind. We agree (as far as one can tell) what his state of mind was, even if you decide to bold italicize "might." That's still what he said. That's still clear indication of what his thinking was (big), and as importantly to this discussion, that it wasn't, say, a wing.

The difference in opinion is whether there is any other plausible reason for picking a wing off the scrapheap but that the something that happened to change his mind was Hunter's knee and the corresponding perceived need for some insurance unless/until that knee gets to 100%.

You've given it the ol college try. Kudos. But no. None hold water. The swelling knee (pun obviously intended) is the pivotal issue, and TLC is the beneficiary.

And as-if there were any doubt, go back to Schlenk's pre-training camp Zoom presser, and one of the first questions he answers is from Sarah about Dre, and his words were "we anticipate him to be full go at the start of the season."

So is it some pet cat status? Or did I just irritate the living daylights out of you with all my posts about the last roster spot these last several weeks? I could see either being the case. No reason not to be honest.

 

 

[AHF]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:24 PM, sturt said:

*sigh*

Again.

The difference in opinion is not whether something happened to change his mind. We agree (as far as one can tell) what his state of mind was, even if you decide to bold italicize "might." That's still what he said. That's still clear indication of what his thinking was (big), and as importantly to this discussion, that it wasn't, say, a wing.

The difference in opinion is whether there is any other plausible reason for picking a wing off the scrapheap but that the something that happened to change his mind was Hunter's knee and the corresponding perceived need for some insurance unless/until that knee gets to 100%.

You've given it the ol college try. Kudos. But no. None hold water. The swelling knee (pun obviously intended) is the pivotal issue, and TLC is the beneficiary.

And as-if there were any doubt, go back to Schlenk's pre-training camp Zoom presser, and one of the first questions he answers is from Sarah about Dre, and his words were "we anticipate him to be full go at the start of the season."

So is it some pet cat status? Or did I just irritate the living daylights out of you with all my posts about the last roster spot these last several weeks? I could see either being the case. No reason not to be honest.

 

 

One explanation might be that he simply thinks TLC is better than the other options and so given that we have injury concerns both on the wing and inside he will go with the player he likes better.  Don't really know.  I haven't been particularly impressed with TLC but I also was very much not impressed with Okafor.

[thecampster]

On 10/19/2021 at 3:57 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Our roster makeup, as I've noted in another thread is the same as it was last year in terms of bigs. 

Center: Clint, Bruno, OO (injured to start)  vs Clint, Dieng, OO (injured to start)

Power Forwards: JC, Gallo, Hill and Johnson (we actually have one more big in Johnson)

TLC is filling Snell's and Dunn's role.

It has been mentioned - Hunter's knee holding up will be our 'x' factor.

Did I just hear that right?  You said we have a big Johnson????  

Edited October 21, 2021 by thecampster

[sturt]

26 minutes ago, AHF said:

we have injury concerns both on the wing and inside he will go with the player he likes better.

There's some chronology here that would seem to matter.

Back when Okafor was cut, I don't think Gallo was considered to be injured. (Correct me if I'm wrong, tho.) And even now, I'm not aware that Gallo's injury is anything considered to be a chronic concern, as Dre's is.

And I believe you said yourself (?) following Okafor's being cut that you thought TS was likely to be looking for other options as teams made their final cuts. As did I. But in hindsight, probably not so much.

The other part of it is, back when Okafor was cut, it was becoming clear that TS' expectation that Dre would be full-go on opening night was being confounded by Dre's knee still experiencing swelling after preseason games... and the kind thing to do for Okafor then would be to grant him optimal opportunity to still catch-on with another team because TLC was going to be needed for insurance purposes.

[sturt]

30 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Did I just hear that right?  You said we have a big Johnson?

You didn't, but I have to admit I had to read it twice, too.

[AHF]

38 minutes ago, sturt said:

There's some chronology here that would seem to matter.

Back when Okafor was cut, I don't think Gallo was considered to be injured. (Correct me if I'm wrong, tho.) And even now, I'm not aware that Gallo's injury is anything considered to be a chronic concern, as Dre's is.

And I believe you said yourself (?) following Okafor's being cut that you thought TS was likely to be looking for other options as teams made their final cuts. As did I. But in hindsight, probably not so much.

The other part of it is, back when Okafor was cut, it was becoming clear that TS' expectation that Dre would be full-go on opening night was being confounded by Dre's knee still experiencing swelling after preseason games... and the kind thing to do for Okafor then would be to grant him optimal opportunity to still catch-on with another team because TLC was going to be needed for insurance purposes.

My point is really just that it is possible that TS and the coaches actually like TLC.  On the other options, it is also very possible that he didn't see anything he particularly liked among those cuts (after all another team couldn't find room for them among their 15 man roster so it isn't clear that TS would find any of them exciting).

[sillent]

On 10/19/2021 at 3:18 PM, GameTime said:

TLC is back in Atlanta!

So that's why we kept him. Travis moves definitely do creep. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by sillent

[sillent]

On 10/19/2021 at 6:16 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Inclined yes, definitely will add No.....and he didn't.  Possible reasons other that Hunter's knee (which EVERYBODY is monitoring closely):  OO as he has indicated (he hopes to be back by December although TS said otherwise) may be back sooner than originally thought...maybe the scraps on the market at Centre is not something Nate was interested in....maybe after seeing Jalen Johnson up close they will give give some PF minutes which slides Collins and/or Gallo some C minutes (not realistic, but you never know).

That and the fact that TLC still has to earn a guaranteed contract if I'm not mistaken. If he doesn't earn it before January he could easily be replaced if needed.

Also knowing Travis he's 2 steps ahead and if he has to trade someone like Gallo a little earlier than expected TLC could be an extra trade filler so we don't have to think about adding any of our young wings.

Again we aren't sure but still if @JayBirdHawk and me are comfortable with it that means don't panic.

I didn't want to touch TLC at all but as a 15th man on a roster this deep he doesn't hurt temporarily or even possibly for the full yr.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

it is possible that TS and the coaches actually like TLC

Possible, sure. Why not.

And who knows, maybe TLC has some dirt on TS... like he recorded him saying, "He's got some Frenchman in him." (*wink*)

Possible. No one can legitimately say it's not.

But the discussion, at least from my perspective, is what's likely given the evidence?

It might be likely had we seen something in preseason that was overwhelming from TLC. But none of us seem to think that, including yourself.

What we did see in preseason is TS' stated pre-camp expectations about Dre's health being somewhat disappointed... the kind of thing where you're not really super concerned, but just enough to prompt some change in reason, and his better angels telling him better to keep some wing insurance instead of adding a big.

Likely. Highly, just going off what we know.