The NBA’s Anti-Vaxxers Are Trying to Push Around the League—And It’s Working

[Gray Mule]

I've had my shots.  The stat that impresses me that I have from around here:  The vast majority of deaths from people in hospitals are not vaccinated.  One paper stated that of well over 400 in the hospital there, 2 were vaccinated.  The rest were not.

The shots will not prevent you from getting Covid-19.  They will not prevent you from spreading covid-19.  However, if you get Covid-19 your chances of survival is so much better I'm willing to go there!!

Gamble if you wish.  Play Russian roulette with your life.  Not for me...

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The unvax are putting everybody's lives in danger.  They are a looming clear and present threat to the rest of society.  Maybe not at this very moment but eventually.   

 

 

What are you talking about???  This is so nonfactual that I don't know where to begin?  Did you even look at the video that I provided?  You need to get your facts right before spreading this blatant misinformation.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

I've had my shots.  The stat that impresses me that I have from around here:  The vast majority of deaths from people in hospitals are not vaccinated.  One paper stated that of well over 400 in the hospital there, 2 were vaccinated.  The rest were not.

The shots will not prevent you from getting Covid-19.  They will not prevent you from spreading covid-19.  However, if you get Covid-19 your chances of survival is so much better I'm willing to go there!!

Gamble if you wish.  Play Russian roulette with your life.  Not for me...

I think that is the only point many athletes are making.  The incident of serious disease in Athletes is almost zero.  So it probably should be a choice.  the other issue is the different set of rules for Vax vs NonVax.  They don't make any sense

[Diesel]

14 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I want to reiterate this again!!!  Vaccination status does not matter in this scenario.  Vaccinated people can infected you at the same rate as unvaccinated people

You're talking about time here.....  Let's cut the BS PB...

Let's say a Vax and Unvax both get the Covid.

The Vax has the Covid for 2 days.  The Unvax has the COVID for 8 days. 

In the 2 days... the Vax is going to transmit less genetic materials to less person than the Unvax will over those 8 days.

 So in a sense, what you are saying is true (this is on the fringes true) ... but in reality... the vax is less likely to transmit as strong a Covid to anybody and definitely not as long a time period as an unvax.

 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, Diesel said:

You're talking about time here.....  Let's cut the BS PB...

Let's say a Vax and Unvax both get the Covid.

The Vax has the Covid for 2 days.  The Unvax has the COVID for 8 days. 

In the 2 days... the Vax is going to transmit less genetic materials to less person than the Unvax will over those 8 days.

 So in a sense, what you are saying is true (this is on the fringes true) ... but in reality... the vax is less likely to transmit as strong a Covid to anybody and definitely not as long a time period as an unvax.

 

Where did you get that nonsense from???

[Peoriabird]

13 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

There have been lots of studies showing the vaccine does provide protection against infection.   It's not 90% as pointed out that's the protection against severe disease but it does still provide protection against infection so not sure where the idea that it doesn't has come from.

New CDC Study: Vaccination Offers Higher Protection than Previous COVID-19 Infection | CDC Online Newsroom | CDC

The rate of 'breakthrough' infection of vaccinated people is still significant i agree.   

The Delta variant has proven to be much more dangerous to a  younger group of people.   This is anecdotal for sure but have you ever seen the flu take out 2 parents in their early 40s? 

Georgia teacher dies of COVID-19 1 month after husband, a middle school football coach – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta (wsbtv.com)

Reinfection rates are low.  Less than 5%. So if 1 study shows a reinfection rate of 2.5% in vaccinated people, you are 2 times more likely to be reinfected if not vaccinated. but practically there is very little difference.

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

What are you talking about???  This is so nonfactual that I don't know where to begin?  Did you even look at the video that I provided?  You need to get your facts right before spreading this blatant misinformation.

https://reliefweb.int/report/world/two-thirds-epidemiologists-warn-mutations-could-render-current-covid-vaccines

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcell.2020.547314/full

Quote

 Over time, the progressive loss of responsiveness to a pathogen and the decreased antibody titer or cellular responses would result in loss of immunity. In the early 21th century, measles infections peaked in Chinese middle-aged adults after re-introduction of the wild-type virus, who had been immunized by early-age vaccination and then boosted with attenuated virus after a time interval (He et al., 2013). And this phenomenon also occurred in South Korea (Kang et al., 2017).

Quote

To survive and escape the herd immunity, the virus may fight by gene mutation and then the original immune system won’t recognize the mutated virus and the herd immunity will thus be ineffective. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8245316/

 

Quote

Outbreaks of SARS-CoV-2 variants will likely continue for a long time. Therefore, future research will require special efforts to continually track variants and find effective ways of preventing them. Furthermore, we should strive to build a system that can respond quickly to unexpected mutation of the virus.

 

[Diesel]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Where did you get that nonsense from???

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html#:~:text=• Fully vaccinated people with,the virus to others.

[Diesel]

PB... I get it...

You will argue against Scientific facts all day.   I can show you fact after fact that is from scientific research and to you it's always nonsense.

So my question to you...  Where have you been getting your Nonsense??

Notice, I brought you Scientific Journal Articles and quotes from scientist who work in the field... nothing political.. just science.   If you doubt that.. then there's really nothing else to talk about.

 

[Peoriabird]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

https://reliefweb.int/report/world/two-thirds-epidemiologists-warn-mutations-could-render-current-covid-vaccines

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcell.2020.547314/full

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8245316/

 

 

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

None of these article support your assertion that the infection period is somehow affected by vaccines.  Maybe I'm missing something but can you provide me with the exact quote that support your assertion that vaccines decrease you ability to infect others

[Peoriabird]

13 minutes ago, Diesel said:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html#:~:text=• Fully vaccinated people with,the virus to others.

That is old and politicized.  This is recent

 

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

That is old and politicized.  This is recent

 

Maybe I needed to be more clear...  I didn't say that this is not true... this is what I said in CDC talk...

Quote

• Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time: For prior variants, lower amounts of viral genetic material were found in samples taken from fully vaccinated people who had breakthrough infections than from unvaccinated people with COVID-19. For people infected with the Delta variant, similar amounts of viral genetic material have been found among both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people. However, like prior variants, the amount of viral genetic material may go down faster in fully vaccinated people when compared to unvaccinated people. This means fully vaccinated people will likely spread the virus for less time than unvaccinated people.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html#:~:text=• Fully vaccinated people with,the virus to others.

 

Like I said before... Your argument is an argument about TIME.... 

Just to simplify this again.

If you have the virus (unvax) for 8 days and I have it for 2 days... and we go the same places, who will effect more people??

Whose virus has the more opportunity to Mutate??

You do believe in mutation right?

 

[Peoriabird]

 

[Peoriabird]

 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

 

[Peoriabird]

 

[niremetal]

28 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Why do we then say Freddie Mercury died of AIDS? Why do we not say he died of pneumocystis? 

A couple answers to that. First--you're moving the goalposts. Before you were talking about official COVID death statistics. Now you're asking why "people" say Freddie Mercury died of AIDS. It should be obvious that "what people say" is not the same as what epidemiologists include in mortality statistics.

That said, it's all about cause and effect. If the UK's mortality recordkeeping is like here, Mercury's death certificate probably has bronchial pneumonia as the immediate cause of death. But If the medical examiner determined that the bronchial pneumonia would not have happened but for Mercury having AIDS, then it would also say that the bronchial pneumonia was a result or consequence of AIDS (possibly with one or two intervening causes in between, e.g. an infection that he wouldn't have been susceptible to absent AIDS). At that point, AIDS is considered the cause of death because AIDS caused the bronchial pneumonia. That's why it would be counted as an AIDS death (though it might also be counted as a bronchial pneumonia death if the UK separately tracks such deaths).

The same would not be true if, say, Freddie Mercury died in a terrible car accident two days before he otherwise would have actually died. In that case, his death certificate would probably say something like "multiple organ failure" as the cause of death, as a consequence of/resulting from blunt force trauma, etc, as a consequence of/resulting from a car accident. His death would be counted as due to a car accident. The fact he had AIDS might be mentioned in the notes, but it wouldn't be a cause of death. He would have been counted in the car accident mortality stats but not the AIDS mortality stats.

So with COVID. The death certificate would mention COVID if it's in the chain of causation, regardless of what might have been going on in the person's health in the background. That's not unusual. It's how epidemiological stats work.

[Diesel]

 

This is from what you just posted. 

I hope you understand it.

Let me just say... 

1.  Breakthrough cases still fall within the ineffective % of each vaccine.    - No issue there.  expected.

2.  Breakthrough cases are just as effective at spreading the disease as vaccinated.  That's because the Delta Variant is highly transmissible. 

BUT.

3.  Unvax will hold on to Virus LONGER than Breakthrough cases.   (TIME). - This effects how many more people will be infected. 

 

I've noticed that in all your posting... you fail to address TIME.  You won't acknowledge it at all.   None of your videos acknowledge time. 

You'd rather argue about the 12% of vaccinated people that will have a breakthrough case... rather than talk about the severity of their disease or the time they have the virus.  Stop ignoring the science PB.

 

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

The counter argument to this is not one athlete has been admitted to an ICU to my knowledge.  This population has a healthy immune system and is able to mount an adequate defense against this virus resulting in most being asymptomatic carriers

But the counter counter argument is that those attending the event have a reasonable expectation of safety. Splitting hairs I know and I really am in the middle with for/vs player arguments.

[JeffS17]

@Peoriabird: no one is arguing that you cannot spread the virus as a vaccinated individual.  You can -- that is known.  But while the research shows that you can spread it, you are still LESS likely to spread it.  If you are not coughing and sneezing and have excess mucus, you will spread the virus to fewer people than if you are symptomatic.  And as @Diesel keeps repeating, if you are unvaccinated you will carry the virus for a longer time period which means you will be spreading to more people than a vaccinated individual.  The vaccine helps in a multitude of ways in addition to preventing a serious case of Covid-19.