My guy has talked around NBA circles of late

[Final_quest]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

He gotta score 30's for you to believe in him, FQ?  Geez.  High bar, mayne.

My gentle pushback is that, on most nights, we shouldn't need anyone to score that much. At full strength, we're strength in numbers. We should (emphasis on 'should') only need him to play like that for stretches of certain games or quarters where offense bogs down.

So, ideally, he won't be at 30 but could still be a 'dude'.  Make sense?

Also, nobody saw 'star' potential in Marvo.  Those were wishes and hopes based on nothing.  The 'star' ship (heh, get it?  starship) sailed quite early on ol' Marvo.

Yeah, that's not really it.  A lot of scrubs have scored 30 points in a game over the course of a career.  Cam has been so inconsistent.

Last year Hunter started the year as our most consistent player.  Good defense, scored in the flow of offense, made smart plays in general.  Cam hasn't put together a stretch of good play more than a couple games.  And he doesn't really create offense for other players.  He has a very low shooting percentage and assist percentage with higher than average turnovers.  He hits set shots but most of his off the dribble game was around 30%.  So a few games where he played well wasn't changing my mind on who he was at his core. Now we're starting to see him getting shots in the flow of offense. 

Cam becoming a 'dude' would just mean he made the right play a majority of the time.  

As far as Marvin goes.  It's a little fuzzy to me when we accepted that he was never gonna be more than a 12-14 ppg type of player.  I remember a few people holding out hope for a few years, and I'm not digging up old threads to check.     

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Yeah, that's not really it.  A lot of scrubs have scored 30 points in a game over the course of a career.  Cam has been so inconsistent.

Last year Hunter started the year as our most consistent player.  Good defense, scored in the flow of offense, made smart plays in general.  Cam hasn't put together a stretch of good play more than a couple games.  And he doesn't really create offense for other players.  He has a very low shooting percentage and assist percentage with higher than average turnovers.  He hits set shots but most of his off the dribble game was around 30%.  So a few games where he played well wasn't changing my mind on who he was at his core. Now we're starting to see him getting shots in the flow of offense. 

Cam becoming a 'dude' would just mean he made the right play a majority of the time.  

As far as Marvin goes.  It's a little fuzzy to me when we accepted that he was never gonna be more than a 12-14 ppg type of player.  I remember a few people holding out hope for a few years, and I'm not digging up old threads to check.     

I'm not sure if you are into draft scouting, but me and @NBASupes,  always said Cam was a raw talented prospect.  We expected him to take time to figure some things out.  Players as talented as Cam have a hard time figuring the right play because they are used to being able to do anything in high school.  That's not me saying he's low IQ, but he definitely has to figure out the team concept of basketball. 

This isn't me saying he's going to be a superstar, All Star or anything. I just think if he puts it all together, he has one of the highest ceilings on the team and we need Cam's prototype if we expect to win a championship.

A few more consistent games, you'll be on the Camfam bandwagon.  His defense alone makes me want to keep him and Hunter on the team.  Hunter is better on ball while Cam is better at playing the passing lanes. They will help with our biggest weakness when healthy and playing together. 

I just hope that happens sooner than later this season. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by marco102

[mrhonline]

A little factoid: Marvin Williams is 150th in all-time NBA minutes.

[Spud2nique]

Just now, mrhonline said:

A little factoid: Marvin Williams is 150th in all-time NBA minutes.

If you gonna be the 2nd pick, you’ve earned those minutes. 

[NBASupes]

Massive Update: 

As I told a number of my PM buddies on this site, I haven't heard anything till today. So when you asked if I knew anything, I didn't. 

But I do now: 

 

Atlanta has been extremely aggressive in the last week. 

I am told all of these guys are available for an upgrade:

Bogi

Gallo

Delon

OKC 1st

2nd rounders. 

 

We are also shopping these major assets: 

Reddish

Hunter

JC

Our unprotected 1st. 

 

I am told: Capela, Trae, Kev, and Okongwu are the only players who aren't being shopped at all. 

I am told we have made progress with 3 and a half teams. 

 

1/2. Indy - We went into depth for Brogdon but what Indy wants is too much. Atlanta isn't interested in him for a major asset. 

1. Minny - Atlanta has called and offered several assets for KAT, including JC and Reddish or Hunter. I was told Atlanta hasn't mentioned picks yet but it will likely get to that point for a player of his caliber.  MIN is very interested at this time he said but aren't sure they will make a move yet. Russell and T. Prince are also on the block. Atlanta has also spoke to them about Pat Beverly. There is a chance Atlanta could try to land both Pat Bev and KAT. MIN has had interest in KAT for awhile. MIN hasn't decided yet but they could start a fast rebuild around Edwards. Atlanta also called and asked about Edwards with MIN having no interest. I am told Boston has been interested in KAT as well as Russell. I heard they don't want to move Brown or Tatum at any cost but keep an eye on Boston. 

2. NO - Atlanta called for Zion and Ingram and NO listened to offers on both! I am told there is a lot more progress for Ingram to Atlanta than Zion but I did find it interesting Zion was really listened to from NO. I am told, Ingram is expensive but a lot more reasonable than KAT or the next guy. NO seems to have a lot of interest in Reddish and have for the last couple of years but especially this year. 

3. OKC - Atlanta asked about SGA and OKC listened. I was told the price is on KAT's level so it's unlikely of any deal but Atlanta was intrigued that OKC would listen. 

Atlanta called a lot of teams, especially teams with a star or superstar. Hell, they even called the Lakers and asked about Bron and AD's availability which they aren't available. Most teams weren't interested other than these above. 

I was told that a lot of guys are available but their price is extremely high as this is a seller's market. Sabonis seems to be getting the most traction. Teams are willing to pay a fortune for him. Washington and New York are extremely interested. As is Charlotte. 

I am told it's unlikely Brogdon, LeVert, Warren, or Turner will be moved. There cost is far greater than their demand and all of them have received high demand but teams don't see them as more than quality pieces and Indy wants high end value for them. 

MIN possibly blowing it up is interesting as well. That would chance the landscape of the league. So many teams have called them but it's really hard to meet their demands and they haven't really been willing to blow it up. Everyone says it but the teams with value to do it like MIN actually can. Indy can say it but if they want too much, no one will do anything. 

Nothing has changed too much in the West. Teams are still stubborn as ever like Portland. Philly would trade them Simmons yesterday if Dame became available but Portland is not interested. They don't see Simmons as a franchise piece. That's what is hurting his value. Also, Philly thinks Harden is coming within the industry. 

Houston has also been very aggressive with their willingness to trade guys like Gordon, Wood, now Porter Jr, Augustin, and Wall. Wood price has been dropping so I would say, he's likely to be traded to someone. The teams who are interested are non-lottery teams and they wanted lottery team value for him which wasn't happening. 

Teams should start putting guys on the block soon. The Knicks have Knox on the block. Magic with Ross. Hornets with Plumlee, shocked Oubre not on the block just for example. This might be the most depressing block for PGs ever. Hardly anyone is available. 

I was told this should be a fairly quiet deadline unless New Orleans or Minnesota blows it up. He said he didn't expect this trade deadline to be too active. Way more sellers than buyers due to the cost. 

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am told all of these guys are available for an upgrade:

Bogi

Gallo

Delon

OKC 1st

2nd rounders. 

No surprise with these.

17 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

We are also shopping these major assets: 

Reddish

Hunter

JC

Our unprotected 1st. 

These are being shopped for 'major upgrades'

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

No surprise with these.

These are being shopped for 'major upgrades'

Yep

All star player is what I was told

[macdaddy]

I'm most interested in Ingram.   I'm not interested in KAT it if takes JC.  I'd gamble on Zion depending on the price

But let the others blow it up and it'll just move them out of our way.  We're fine.

[JayBirdHawk]

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

1/2. Indy - We went into depth for Brogdon but what Indy wants is too much. Atlanta isn't interested in him for a major asset. 

1. Minny - Atlanta has called and offered several assets for KAT, including JC and Reddish or Hunter. I was told Atlanta hasn't mentioned picks yet but it will likely get to that point for a player of his caliber.  MIN is very interested at this time he said but aren't sure they will make a move yet. Russell and T. Prince are also on the block. Atlanta has also spoke to them about Pat Beverly. There is a chance Atlanta could try to land both Pat Bev and KAT. MIN has had interest in KAT for awhile. MIN hasn't decided yet but they could start a fast rebuild around Edwards. Atlanta also called and asked about Edwards with MIN having no interest. I am told Boston has been interested in KAT as well as Russell. I heard they don't want to move Brown or Tatum at any cost but keep an eye on Boston. 

2. NO - Atlanta called for Zion and Ingram and NO listened to offers on both! I am told there is a lot more progress for Ingram to Atlanta than Zion but I did find it interesting Zion was really listened to from NO. I am told, Ingram is expensive but a lot more reasonable than KAT or the next guy. NO seems to have a lot of interest in Reddish and have for the last couple of years but especially this year. 

3. OKC - Atlanta asked about SGA and OKC listened. I was told the price is on KAT's level so it's unlikely of any deal but Atlanta was intrigued that OKC would listen. 

1/2. Hawks offered a Bogi swap and minor asset for Brogdon?

1.  Surprised that Minny is in blow up mode, again but not really - they can't seem to get right. Pat Beverly as a stand alone piece is interesting.  He's making $14 million on an expiring contract. Delon, Lou and a 2nd rounder?

2. So if Atlanta offeredv JC and one of Hunter or Reddish (plus picks for KAT) and Ingram is more reasonable, what does that look like?

3. surprised OKC is even listening on SGA

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

So if Atlanta offeredv JC and one of Hunter or Reddish (plus picks for KAT) and Ingram is more reasonable, what does that look like?

Yeah i want to know.  Cam, Bogi, Dieng?   

Ingram on the Hawks is pretty powerful.   I think it's a better fit than KAT with Trae.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

1/2. Hawks offered a Bogi swap and minor asset for Brogdon?

1.  Surprised that Minny is in blow up mode, again but not really - they can't seem to get right. Pat Beverly as a stand alone piece is interesting.  He's making $14 million on an expiring contract. Delon, Lou and a 2nd rounder?

2. So if Atlanta offeredv JC and one of Hunter or Reddish (plus picks for KAT) and Ingram is more reasonable, what does that look like?

3. surprised OKC is even listening on SGA

I dont know the framework of the Indy one but I would imagine something like this

2a. I haven't heard of picks yet but I am sure we will offer that too if a trade is made.

2b. A package around Reddish.

3. Me too. He was off limits this summer. Makes me think OKC maybe further away more than they thought. The idea was he would be there Devin Booker is what I was told in the past. 

[marco102]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I dont know the framework of the Indy one but I would imagine something like this

2a. I haven't heard of picks yet but I am sure we will offer that too if a trade is made.

2b. A package around Reddish.

3. Me too. He was off limits this summer. Makes me think OKC maybe further away more than they thought. The idea was he would be there Devin Booker is what I was told in the past. 

So in a KAT trade we would give up both Hunter and Reddish AND JC?

So starters

Trae

BOGI

Kevin

KAT

Capela?

I don't know about that one.

I would rather one of Cam or Hunter stay.

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by marco102

[Sothron]

I'd love to have KAT on this team but he would have to replace Capela not JC.  Putting KAT next to Capela would be interesting but this isn't the Davis boys era in Indiana or Hakeem/Samson in the 80's. David/Duncan maybe? 

I know Minn has been after JC since his rookie season so it doesn't surprise me that they would want him.

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, marco102 said:

So in a KAT trade we would give up both Hunter and Reddish AND JC?

Supes original post said JC and Hunter or Reddish.

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I'd love to have KAT on this team but he would have to replace Capela not JC.  Putting KAT next to Capela would be interesting but this isn't the Davis boys era in Indiana or Hakeem/Samson in the 80's. David/Duncan maybe? 

I know Minn has been after JC since his rookie season so it doesn't surprise me that they would want him.

Yeah, I have been wanting KAT with Trae for a minute. 

Just have to give up a lot to get him.

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Supes original post said JC and Hunter or Reddish.

Thanks. Completely misread that.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I'd love to have KAT on this team but he would have to replace Capela not JC.  Putting KAT next to Capela would be interesting but this isn't the Davis boys era in Indiana or Hakeem/Samson in the 80's. David/Duncan maybe? 

I know Minn has been after JC since his rookie season so it doesn't surprise me that they would want him.

They been after Hunter since the draft. Both players, MIN highly rated in the process. 

[bleachkit]

I'd trade Cam for Josh Giddey. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by bleachkit

[Sothron]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

They been after Hunter since the draft. Both players, MIN highly rated in the process. 

Do you really think KAT could work with Capela? That is the only thing I question. I'd kill to have KAT on this team with Trae because we'd finally have a reliable second scoring option. But him WITH Capela...

[NBASupes]

Just now, Sothron said:

Do you really think KAT could work with Capela? That is the only thing I question. I'd kill to have KAT on this team with Trae because we'd finally have a reliable second scoring option. But him WITH Capela...

I have my doubts. If it don't work, we still got Okongwu.

[Sothron]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I have my doubts. If it don't work, we still got Okongwu.

My dream scenario with that: move Capela in the offseason and start OO at center. KAT guards the weaker front court player and OO guards the better front court player.