CAM REDDISH TO NY FOR KEVIN KNOX AND FIRST!?!

[JayBirdHawk]

Wait wait wait....you are saying LP would be crazy to not start Cam at SF and have Hunter as our Super Sub but you won't take a start of season bet as who LP chooses. (You can add the caveat regarding injuries to start the season).

I'm watching you with a side eye Supes 

[Buzzard]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I want him to be right so bad.

I just prefer to temper my expectations and be pleasantly surprised after the fact.

I will bow to almighty Supes.

Same here. I am with you and AHF. I want that .772 FT Shooting to translate to the NBA 3PT line as bad as anyone. His .333 from college three is not horrible; but that 2PT % is horrendous.

I think he will need time and hope we get some glimpses of great potential some time this season.

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

No deal then

Wait wait wait....you are saying LP would be crazy to not start Cam at SF and have Hunter as our Super Sub but you won't take a start of season bet as who LP chooses. (You can add the caveat regarding injuries to start the season).

I'm watching you with a side eye Supes 

[NBASupes]

27 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm on board for this bet if there are no other takers.  I'd just add a proviso that games where one of these guys is too injured to play don't count so if Cam starts the season at SF and starts 30 games at SF and is then replaced by Hunter for the remaining 52 games when Cam is lost for the year that I don't end up winning the bet (and vice versa).  DNP-CD games count.  Does that work?

Deal. Good provision for both of us. Injuries suck and we hope both play 82

Edited July 18, 2019 by NBASupes

[thecampster]

17 hours ago, NBASupes said:

*Randy Moss in terms of gamebreaking rookie year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMU4bwje89U

 

1. He is the NBA's Randy Moss. This year we seen the two most versatile 3pt shooters Tyler Herro and Cam Reddish since Steph Curry enter the draft. We are talking about shooters who can shoot 3 pointers with every variance. The standstill, stepback, hesi, iso 3, pull up, hard one dribble pull up, catch and shoot, clutch 3, combo move to 3pt. Cam has even more in his bag. Cam has the range to shoot consistently from 30ft and he has movement skills he learned in his role to be the 6'8 lol J.J. Redick and looked nowhere as good as Redick but looked as good as Jodie Meeks as an one prong movement specialist. The only skill they both lack of the ability to shoot 3 vs. high pressure defense. Both are bad at it for now. Herro does have a higher FT% but he shot 9.5 3pts in Miami and shot a solid 32%. What's crazy about this is, this is extremely translatable. Herro finished with his freshman year with a RARE 38.1% projected NBA 3pt without high end volume. 

Redick at 21 with higher volume had a 40.4% http://www.tankathon.com/players/jj-redick

PG without the volume had a 38.4 http://www.tankathon.com/players/paul-george

Klay at 21 with higher volume , 38.8% http://www.tankathon.com/players/klay-thompson

Reddish before the groin injury with higher volume 39% https://web.archive.org/web/20190214192729/http://www.tankathon.com/players/cam-reddish

GOAT Curry at 21 with insane volume, 41.1% GOAT shit! http://www.tankathon.com/players/stephen-curry

What makes Herro and Reddish rare is they play in an era where shooting 3s isn't looked down upon. Steph took 4.8 a game as a rookie. Compare that to Luka's 19th best VORP in the NBA who shot 7.1 3 pointers a game. Trae shot 6 3 pointers a game. Note: It's hard af to shoot 6 threes in a game. Teams start scheming the f*** outta you. John was killing it on the Oboards and they started double blocking out him on the boards and it was kinda easy since Dedmon lived at the 3pt line. To get 7 or 8 requires extreme skill. Either you are elite movement specialist like J.J. Redick, Steph, Klay, Hield, Korver which no rookie is or ever will be outside of Curry, Redick could have been as well if they used him right but that's not how the game was played back then. You have an elite variance (Cam, Herro, Steph, Trae, Harden, Lillard, Gordon, D'Lo). This means both Herro and Reddish could make an impression similar to Trae and Luka as rookies but what makes you get to the RARE 9 and 10+ Harden/PG13 status. Elite offensive skill where you can't sit on his 3s for Harden and can guard his dibble drive or finishing due to his GOAT level offensive talent as he is an elite half court player who has the elite playmaking where you can't just double or zone him the entire time. 

For PG, luck. How? Simple, it's extremely unlikely a player with is an average movement player regardless of how lights out a shooter can get 9.8 3s unless you get lucky and get a generational shot primary creator. How many are there in the history of the game? (70's - Pistol Pete, 90's - Stockton, 2000's - Nash, 2010s - LeBron, John Wall, CP3, Lowry, Now - Westbrook, Trae, Ben Simmons.) Chances are, if you got one of those, you will have more opportunity to get high quality looks that would not be there without one of them. The best shot in Basketball is the corner 3. No one but Trae Young as created more than Russell Westbrook (98). Paul George greatly benefited from this. I been on record saying Russell Westbrook makes players around him better but he makes teams worse because of his highly inefficient style of play for a primary ball handler. But he makes players around him better which gets us in the who's first on this list?

Trae Young (104). Who on our elite variance list is playing with Trae Young? You got it, Cam Reddish. Cam took a rare 7.4 3s for a off-ball player. How rare? Only Kyle Guy met these numbers who was exclusively a standstill, C&S shooter who can shoot with and without pressure. He is going to have to develop a movement game which I believe he can since we seen Joe Harris do it. UVA(Bennett) guys are instinctive and got the BBIQ but UVA just doesn't teach that so it's a skill they tend to lack initially. Klay didn't have it either at first and now he is the best in the world at it. Clemons and Edwards are the only NBA guys with more attempts with high end variance but neither of them project to be starters so it doesn't matter as Clemons lacks the size/passing/defense and Edwards lacks the athletic ability and the ability outside of shooting. Herro and Cam are both skilled isolation players which makes a massive difference and they have the athletic ability. This means, even as a rookie, if, big if Cam could possibly shoot between 8-10 3s per a game which a projected 39% when healthy, this could end up being 9.36 to 11.7 points a game. FFT, if Cam gets 6-8ppg from isolation, transition, FT which he is good drawing which is really good at, open dunks which is possible in our system. While I think 20ppg is out of the realm for Reddish with his style of play as a rookie, I do think 16-18ppg with a higher TS% than he had at Duke is extremely possible considering his skill-set, tool-kit, role, personnel, fit, and playing with Trae Young. Cam could end up with a rare 3 to 4 OBPM as a rookie. This mark would be extremely rare. His impact on our wins is could be just as impactful as a massive Trae Young improvement over the duration of next year. 

 

2. "His FG% in college was historically low. Look at Malachi Richardson who is the only sub 40 FG% 1st rounder. If you can't finish v. teens, how can you finish v. pros? Richardson had a historically low 50.1% TS and Cam's is even lower Supes at 49.9% and Supes, his TS when he was healthy was 51.9%. The data don't look good Supes, it don't, he gonna flop bro!" Let me tell you something. 

STAY OFF THE WEED and watch the film. Richardson had a low feel, low BBIQ, low IQ and was only a 1st rounder because SAC got no workouts with most guys in a historically weak draft. Papagiannis was a lotto pick. Why because him and Richardson worked out for them and shot well. Richardson was likely to not even get drafted. Let's just make it clear, we aren't dealing with a legit NBA prospect in Richardson, at least one that's a legit 1st rounder. As far as TS and FG. Name one 1st rounder with less easy two pointers in college than Cam Reddish in the last 20 years? Just one. Name one with more jumpshots than Cam Reddish? 79.8. Name one with more shot versatility than Cam Reddish? Just one? When Cam as easy twos, he easily scores but Duke was for R.J. and Zion and Cam/Jack/Tre to a degree and Goldwire had to play a specific role on offense and defense. The film is very damning on this. This is not to say Cam's finishing is great but Cam wasn't missing wide open layups. Cam was beating his man and had another person waiting for him. There was literally no space. Teams took Duke extremely serious as they should. They were the biggest NCAA team in the last 20 years in terms of popularity. 

Cam may never have a very good or good TS but as long as his eFG is great and his adv analytics is great, idgaf!

3. "Cam only average 3.7 Rebounds a game bro. His rebounding was ass bro. Jimmer had 3.4. Come on man, are you kidding me?" Simple, look at this: 

 

He sky over Zion for a board. This look like a 3.7 REBs guy? Let's break down why he got so few boards. Coach K usually has Cam get back on D so that Zion/R.J./Tre/Bolden get the DREB and wants him to spring out on offense so that Duke has numbers as R.J. likes to get a DREB and go coast to coast and needs numbers for spacing. This kills Cam's numbers. Just for reference, Cam rebounding was 7.8 at EYBL and 5.6 REBS in HS. If asked to REB, Cam will. 

4. Cam's defensive talent rivals Lonzo Ball's. A lot of people say Cam is PG like on D but Cam body is different. He has great footwork with good lateral quickness, a tad stiff which is good for defensive instincts like Ball, in fact, his body functions a lot like Ball and not so much like PG. I felt I liked Cam on D more as a prospect in terms of finish product than Zo, both are very similar. Both had excellent steals rates. Before Cam's injury, Cam had an elite steal rate. Both show elite potential in terms of perimeter defense and I think Cam has more shot blocking potential as of the 26 shots Cam blocked, 19 were on ball. That's an excellent number as off ball blocks are always more likely in the NBA but on ball is truly signs of an elite freakish defender. Cam's development throughout the season, he became a much better man defender in terms of discipline when before he was just overly aggressive and while the numbers are good,  he wasn't as effective in my opinion. That said, he needs to be aggressive playing the passing lanes but discipline. Unlike Baze and Prince, he has the hand speed like Ball to be effective doing it and not putting the team in harms way.  

Like Ball, it wouldn't surprise me if he was an impact on defense Day 1 and someone who can be seen as a defensive specialist day 1. If he matches his offensive impact with his defensive impact, he would be one of the best VORP and BPM rookies since Tim Duncan and rivaling Tim Duncan. Cam could be worth a lot of wins as a rookie. Even in college, it goes understated how good Cam's defense is for his team. Of the two games Cam missed, Duke lost one to Syracuse of all teams with Zion and R.J. and needed luck v. VT in the NCAA tournament. For as much talk Zion gets, that when he was out, Duke was 3-3 but Duke lost to a top 10 ranked VT team and UNC twice who they needed to be at full strength to beat. They didn't lose to unranked Cuse. 

5. Spacing. The biggest thing v. Moss other than off the field stuff was his route running, his level of competition and he wouldn't be open like that in college, and it's easy to put up numbers when you got a very talented NFL potential QB in Pennington v. supremely inferior teams in the MAC or D2 and they couldn't beat anyone that had a pulse. Where was this at Florida State? What happened? He joined the Minnesota Vikings. 

 

 

What made Randy special that season was that three critical things. 

1. Fit - Even though Brad Johnson wasn't an ideal fit, he was a good QB who knew how to manage the game. He was consistent and had a good feel for the game. His backup was Randall Cunningham who best days was behind him and at best at his stage had a great deep ball and was more of a gunslinger but not really that accurate of an all around passer. But with Moss, it was a perfect fit. 

He had a good running game with Robert Smith. 

Most important, he had one of the best WR tandems in Jake Reed and Cris Carter where you couldn't double team him and if you did, someone was always open which really opened the game up for Cunningham who had easy targets to throw to. This was critical because Moss rookie success would NOT be possible without his supporting cast which takes us to the Hawks and Reddish. 

Trae as been mention but what about the others. Collins is an elite PnR PF in the mold of a modern Karl Malone with stretch talent and less of a post up player. Alex Len is a 36% 3pt shooter on low volume and a good PnR finisher in general. Kevin Huerter is a perfect fit marksman who is excellent at standstill, C&S and has range like Trae and Reddish while having playmaking and decision making chops on the ball. We basically have the 6th most efficient offense with Collins on the court last season. That's with two rookies and a 2nd year Collins. With Trae/Kev/Collins adding Trae, it could be like the Vikings adding Moss to Reed/Carter/Smith and eventually Cunningham as Atlanta spacing is already in a top percentile and we are still babies. 

6. Our system is dope. We have a system that plays the style that can allow this to happen. 1st place in PACE. It's possible. 

7. Our coach allows mistakes. None of this is possible with Joeger as a HC. With LP, it's all possible as LP wants to win but he wants to develop the guys more than anything and put them in the best position to shine. 

8. Duke developed him perfectly. Duke did a hell of a job. They didn't play to his strengths and developed his movement, his defense and his willingness to do anything including sacrifice to win. This is a hard thing to do for coaches. For example, the reason Trae struggle was OU was built around him. He had to adjust to how he needed to play in the NBA. Cam kinda already did that and some. Maybe way too much but it will help us as his transition should be the most smooth of all of our rookies that has came in the last 5 years. Probably the easiest transition since Al Horford. Most rooks have to adjust to a role foreign to what they did in college. Cam's is him with what he did at Duke. Probably the easiest transition of all rookies in along time. 

9. Cam has an NBA body already. He has a NBA ready body so he doesn't have to worry about that part which many rookies do. 

10. Cam's personality is a perfect fit for our locker room. Which is important because while he was cool with everyone at Duke and everyone likes Cam, he wasn't loved. I think with us, he will be loved. He fits Trae, De'Andre, Kevin, Bruno and John seamlessly. 

 

 

This has reached trolling status. You can't possibly be serious with this Cam love.

 

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I lost my summary post. I'll do it when I get home. 

1. Simply put. Cam has a chance with his style of play to put up a high OBPM. 

2. His FG% and TS% is fugazi in terms of college. It is indicative of his NBA one which could also be higher. It wouldn't surprise me if he had a 550 TS% as a rookie. 

3. His reb numbers aren't indicative of his rebounding just due to role, potential chances, personnel and how Coach K used him. 

4. His defensive talent translates day 1. He has Lonzo Ball defensive talent. He has a chance to get a 3 DBPM and maybe higher. Ball single handedly changed the Lakers defense. Reddish could as well who might be a better defender at the same stage. He was critical to Duke success defensively. 

5. Comparing situation to Moss and Cam. Team, fit, talent, etc.

6. Our system is a perfect fit. 

7. Coach LP style, Pplayer development and long leash works well with Reddish.

8. Duke developed Cam better than I feel any other college program would have even if he could have been a top 3 pick if used right. Added decent movement skill, defensive polish and a willingness to sacrifice his game for the team. He will adjust exceptionally fast.

9. His body is NBA ready. He is not Jaxson Hayes, Malik Monk or Mo Bamba.

10. His personality is an ideal fit for our locker room.

 

Let me see if I get you hear? 

1. and I also have a chance to develop x-ray vision if dipped in a vat of toxic sludge....of course he has a chance...none of which means the nba is on fire.

2. His fugazi numbers are based on his performance on a team where he was the 3rd option and woke up better as a team than 80
% of teams they played. Of course he got easy shots and good numbers. That translates to the NBA how?

3. This is an apology, not a reason someone does something good.

4. Did you just cite Lonzo Ball as the reason another completely unrelated player who plays a complete different position as a reason?

5. Did you just cite a football player long retired as a reason a basketball rookie will succeed?

6. I can't even respond to a partial thought.

7. Based on what do you say it works well?

8. Totally opinion.

9. Opinion

10. Opinion

 

You might be right and if so, I need you to throw me the Mega Millions numbers.  Dude is a baller 3rd option at the college level but has produced nothing as a pro. Take your meds....Hell take my meds....something.

[EazyRoc]

5 minutes ago, thecampster said:

This has reached trolling status. You can't possibly be serious with this Cam love.

 

Let me see if I get you hear? 

1. and I also have a chance to develop x-ray vision if dipped in a vat of toxic sludge....of course he has a chance...none of which means the nba is on fire.

2. His fugazi numbers are based on his performance on a team where he was the 3rd option and woke up better as a team than 80
% of teams they played. Of course he got easy shots and good numbers. That translates to the NBA how?

3. This is an apology, not a reason someone does something good.

4. Did you just cite Lonzo Ball as the reason another completely unrelated player who plays a complete different position as a reason?

5. Did you just cite a football player long retired as a reason a basketball rookie will succeed?

6. I can't even respond to a partial thought.

7. Based on what do you say it works well?

8. Totally opinion.

9. Opinion

10. Opinion

 

You might be right and if so, I need you to throw me the Mega Millions numbers.  Dude is a baller 3rd option at the college level but has produced nothing as a pro. Take your meds....Hell take my meds....something.

Shame on you for quoting that novel.

i almost sprained my thumb

[IheartVolt]

2 hours ago, Buzzard said:

Not going to work Supes. My whole point has been Cam needs time to work his way into the lineup, Why in the world would I bet against something I think could happen?

You are the one who said Coach Pierce was smart enough ( like yourself ) to start Cam right away, Not me Coach Supes.

Start Cam over whom? Start him over Huerter? That will not happen not will it happen anytime soon

Huerter is highly regarded by many in this league. While I appreciate Supes enthusiasm for Cam, I think he is being equally disrespectful of Huerter and his skill set.. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by IheartVolt

[IheartVolt]

24 minutes ago, thecampster said:

This has reached trolling status. You can't possibly be serious with this Cam love.

 

Let me see if I get you hear? 

1. and I also have a chance to develop x-ray vision if dipped in a vat of toxic sludge....of course he has a chance...none of which means the nba is on fire.

2. His fugazi numbers are based on his performance on a team where he was the 3rd option and woke up better as a team than 80
% of teams they played. Of course he got easy shots and good numbers. That translates to the NBA how?

3. This is an apology, not a reason someone does something good.

4. Did you just cite Lonzo Ball as the reason another completely unrelated player who plays a complete different position as a reason?

5. Did you just cite a football player long retired as a reason a basketball rookie will succeed?

6. I can't even respond to a partial thought.

7. Based on what do you say it works well?

8. Totally opinion.

9. Opinion

10. Opinion

 

You might be right and if so, I need you to throw me the Mega Millions numbers.  Dude is a baller 3rd option at the college level but has produced nothing as a pro. Take your meds....Hell take my meds....something.

[Buzzard]

Just now, IheartVolt said:

Start Cam over whom? Start him over Huerter? That will not happen not will it happen anytime soon

Huerter is highly regarded by many in this league. While I appreciate Supes enthusiasm for Cam, I think he is being equally disrespected of Huerter and his skill set.. 

He thinks start Cam over Hunter. Make Hunter our 6th man getting minutes at the 3 or 4.

[IheartVolt]

Just now, Buzzard said:

He thinks start Cam over Hunter. Make Hunter our 6th man getting minutes at the 3 or 4.

Not gonna happen either.. Hunter could flame out on the defensive end but he will be our new Junk Yard Dog

[Buzzard]

9 minutes ago, IheartVolt said:

Not gonna happen either.. Hunter could flame out on the defensive end but he will be our new Junk Yard Dog

I agree. Hunter is going to start. 4th pick in the draft will be given a opportunity to succeed; and I personally think he will. Hunter could easily make RJ look like a bad pick before it is all said and done.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Buzzard

[AHF]

49 minutes ago, thecampster said:

has produced nothing as a pro. 

This strikes me as an unfair criticism as this applies to every rookie in history even the ones who were ready to blow up immediately like Tim Duncan, Larry Bird, MJ, Magic, Big O, etc.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

This has reached trolling status. You can't possibly be serious with this Cam love.

 

Let me see if I get you hear? 

1. and I also have a chance to develop x-ray vision if dipped in a vat of toxic sludge....of course he has a chance...none of which means the nba is on fire.

2. His fugazi numbers are based on his performance on a team where he was the 3rd option and woke up better as a team than 80
% of teams they played. Of course he got easy shots and good numbers. That translates to the NBA how?

3. This is an apology, not a reason someone does something good.

4. Did you just cite Lonzo Ball as the reason another completely unrelated player who plays a complete different position as a reason?

5. Did you just cite a football player long retired as a reason a basketball rookie will succeed?

6. I can't even respond to a partial thought.

7. Based on what do you say it works well?

8. Totally opinion.

9. Opinion

10. Opinion

 

You might be right and if so, I need you to throw me the Mega Millions numbers.  Dude is a baller 3rd option at the college level but has produced nothing as a pro. Take your meds....Hell take my meds....something.

1. You should stare at the sun for 8 hours and tell me how the xray vision thing is working for ya. I kid

2. Not sure what you mean?

3. Go to the OG post 

4. Either you get it or you don't. I don't have time to explain biomechanics to you. 

5. He is a similar case study from a talent and fit stance.

6. It's his style of play and how we play. Look at the og post.

7. This is your first legit question. Give me some time, I'll respond later.

8. OG post

9. This one should be obvious, if it isn't, I don't know what to tell you. 

10. Of course it's an opnion. 

[enrique]

10 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I lost my summary post. I'll do it when I get home. 

1. Simply put. Cam has a chance with his style of play to put up a high OBPM. 

2. His FG% and TS% is fugazi in terms of college. It is indicative of his NBA one which could also be higher. It wouldn't surprise me if he had a 550 TS% as a rookie. 

3. His reb numbers aren't indicative of his rebounding just due to role, potential chances, personnel and how Coach K used him. 

4. His defensive talent translates day 1. He has Lonzo Ball defensive talent. He has a chance to get a 3 DBPM and maybe higher. Ball single handedly changed the Lakers defense. Reddish could as well who might be a better defender at the same stage. He was critical to Duke success defensively. 

5. Comparing situation to Moss and Cam. Team, fit, talent, etc.

6. Our system is a perfect fit. 

7. Coach LP style, Pplayer development and long leash works well with Reddish.

8. Duke developed Cam better than I feel any other college program would have even if he could have been a top 3 pick if used right. Added decent movement skill, defensive polish and a willingness to sacrifice his game for the team. He will adjust exceptionally fast.

9. His body is NBA ready. He is not Jaxson Hayes, Malik Monk or Mo Bamba.

10. His personality is an ideal fit for our locker room.

 

Dude, you nailed that!!!

Supes’ Notes>Cliff’s Notes

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

This strikes me as an unfair criticism as this applies to every rookie in history even the ones who were ready to blow up immediately like Tim Duncan, Larry Bird, MJ, Magic, Big O, etc.

It's okay, he is critical of Reddish and that's fine.  Just based on the facts. The tape is much better. 

 

That said, I didn't spend no damn 5-6 hours to troll. 

I didn't make bets just to make them. 

I said this on realgm when I was just talking about anything team. 

Cam is that extremely rare player who is an average starting college player who is your average starter in NBA next year via impact. 

Cam's game translates exceptionally well for his role. People won't realize it. They just won't realize what hit them. Trae created 104 corner threes... AS A ROOKIE. 

People just don't know what they don't know. 

 

@AHF, you know what it is? People just don't think he is that talented. They think, oh, he must just look like the part. They don't realize this guy is extremely talented. More talented than PG as a prospect. He just doesn't have a normal skill-set for a G/F of his size. He has a modern analytic based game. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by NBASupes

[AHawks89]

Yeah, I've heard multiple people compare Cam Reddish to Randy Moss before the draft. Let's hope so! 

[kg01]

Aye @Spud2nique, you know @sturt was like this when he saw how long that OP was ...

The man has a fetish for words.  The OP just made his day(s).

Yeah I got nothin' to add to this thread but, if you ask most o' y'all, that's pretty much par for the kg course.

Carry on ...

[Spud2nique]

16 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Aye @Spud2nique, you know @sturt was like this when he saw how long that OP was ...

The man has a fetish for words.  The OP just made his day(s).

Yeah I got nothin' to add to this thread but, if you ask most o' y'all, that's pretty much par for the kg course.

Carry on ...

  thanks for brightening up my day with that Todd Haley. It’s priceless.  I’m having a Lukawarm day.  

[sturt]

Be sure to watch for my next post... I've decided to title it

Eleven reasons why rookie Bruno Fernando will... um... be playable... and is the next Charles Woodson.

 

[benhillboy]

I always value Supes’ analysis but I found myself much more troubled by the weaknesses in Mike Schmitz’s video than encouraged by the strengths.  Shooting off screens and defensive versatility was great.  Low shot release not so much.  Downright pathetic finishing ability and questionable motor is gonna give me nightmares of Joe Johnson again.  He lacks the perfect size and playmaking to offset.

I do trust that CLP The Don and Ice Trae The Game will devise a comfortable fit (Supes’ favorite term lol)  for him at some point during his rookie campaign.  I do not share his same zest for volume three point shooting under .400, varied or no.

Edited July 19, 2019 by benhillboy