What are some deadline deals that you think can help this team now and into the future?

[AHF]

52 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Bogi was not a borderline all star last year.  Not sure he got 1 coach's vote to be an all star or to be on the Olympic team  The fan base overrates him so much and underrates John equally and I can't figure out why.  We've seen players go on these torrid streaks before like a Taurean Prince, Jamal Crawford, Lou Williams or THjr only to regress back to their baseline.  Why is so hard to understand that Bogi falls squarely in that category.

Think you missed the topic being discussed here or you have come in addressing a straw man since no one claimed he was almost selected as an All-Star last season.  The All-Star game was March 7 last year.  Bogi's hot streak was at its peak in April and May.  Of course his hot stretch last year didn't get him All-Star votes when it happened after the All-Star game took place. 

What is being discussed is whether a player that could perform at the level Bogi was at during his hot streak is borderline All-Star.  Put another way, is a SG playing effective defense and putting up roughly 22+ points on .662% TS%, 4 rebounds and 4 assists borderline All-Star?  IMO, the answer to that is yes.  >.660% TS% is fantastic.  Those numbers aren't good enough to be a guaranteed All-Star but they are good enough to make it in many years (certainly better than a number of past Atlanta All-Stars).  

I agree with you that his hot streak is better than his healthy baseline just like his healthy baseline is significantly better than what he has been this season.  

Here are the career averages for these players:

Bogi:  14 points on .559% TS%, 3.4 assists, 3.3 rebounds

Prince:  10.5 points on .536% TS%, 1.8 assists, 4.1 rebounds

Crawford:  14.6 points on .529% TS%, 3.4 assists, 2.2 rebounds

Lou:  14.1 points on .551% TS%, 3.4 assists, 2.2 rebounds

THJr:  13.9 points on .550% TS%, 1.9 assists, 2.8 rebounds

 

Offensively, I'd rank those guys:

Bogi (best scoring/efficiency; best assists; 2nd best rebounding) > Lou (better scoring and passing than THJr) > THJr (better scoring efficiency than Crawford) > Crawford (TS% kills him) > Prince (low in everything but rebounds)

Unlike most of these players, Bogi has been on an upward trajectory with his numbers (career high in 2019-20 followed by new career highs in 2020-21) so I'd tend to expect better from him when healthy than what these guys did in an average season over their careers.  But I agree that "baseline" Bogi (who I peg at a bit better than his career average per 36 over ~33 mpg) is closer to these guys than All-Star status.

[terrell]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

Wow.  This is wayyyyyyyyyyyy more critical of JC than I think is warranted.  He does have limitations but this is overstating them.  He may not have the contribution we hope for in the playoffs but he is much more of a positive contribution than this.    Giannis and Durant get their numbers against almost everyone and obviously JC isn't going to be the exception there but I do not lose sleep wondering what the Morris twins might do against him.

JC remains a highly efficient forward who thrives on running to the rim and firing catch and shoot jumpers.  He is exceptional at those, as seen in his team leading 43.5% 3pt% this season (and 3 years of ~40% shooting) and his fantastic TS%.  We know he isn't someone who can generate his own offense, but as he has improved his jumper and his defense he has become a player who can fit just about any team since he takes very little off the table, doesn't cause problems about touches (few would have sacrificed like he did last year in a contract season), and is very efficient with what he does.

On Dillon Brooks, efficiency is my one red flag with him.  His .517% TS% is terrible.  That is brutally ugly for someone who shoots as much as he does.  And his career high ts% is worse than Cam's this season.  Defense would be a big upgrade for us on the perimeter for sure.  Would be tough to see him shooting 32.7% from 3pt range as he is doing this season (34.4% last season).  Brooks is also an unrestricted free agent after next season.

 

"Doesnt cause problems without touches"  Really? He's complained about it for 2 seasons in a row.....................

I dont think he’s worthless or anything. I just believe he's criminally overrated by some of the fan base..

And the whole he shoots and rebounds is so meh to me... Bobby Portis shoots and rebounds even better while making 21 million $ less a year. And What has he actually improved at? Can he take volume 3s now? Defend the perimeter? Unless he takes a Julius Randle type leap in actual skill sets, no one should be allowed to say Collins has “improved”. Dudes been the same player for years. Just because he makes a choreographed extra pass now off the Trae PnR does not make him a “passer” now either.. LOL

I think we could that 25 million on a player(players) that fit better.. Thats all....If it werent for Nate leaving him on the bench last night(smartest thing he's done in a while), we would be talking about our 11th home loss in a row.. Im pretty confident in saying that...

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

"Doesnt cause problems without touches"  Really? He's complained about it for 2 seasons in a row.....................

I dont think he’s worthless or anything. I just believe he's criminally overrated by some of the fan base..

And the whole he shoots and rebounds is so meh to me... Bobby Portis shoots and rebounds even better while making 21 million $ less a year. And What has he actually improved at? Can he take volume 3s now? Defend the perimeter? Unless he takes a Julius Randle type leap in actual skill sets, no one should be allowed to say Collins has “improved”. Dudes been the same player for years. Just because he makes a choreographed extra pass now off the Trae PnR does not make him a “passer” now either.. LOL

I think we could that 25 million on a player(players) that fit better.. Thats all....If it werent for Nate leaving him on the bench last night(smartest thing he's done in a while), we would be talking about our 11th home loss in a row.. Im pretty confident in saying that...

I don't know.  The truth is  in the middle somewhere right?   I agree there is some overrating but he got his money because replacing him would not be easy.   He's an elite lob man, stretch 4 and made himself a decent defender.   

Portis plays with a HOF'r MVP in Giannis and an all star elite shooter in Middleton.   What the hell did Portis do before he was next to those guys other than play for 4 teams and break a teammate's face in a fight.  

[terrell]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I don't know.  The truth is  in the middle somewhere right?   I agree there is some overrating but he got his money because replacing him would not be easy.   He's an elite lob man, stretch 4 and made himself a decent defender.   

Portis plays with a HOF'r MVP in Giannis and an all star elite shooter in Middleton.   What the hell did Portis do before he was next to those guys other than play for 4 teams and break a teammate's face in a fight.  

My post wasnt about Portis.. I was just using him as an example for "he can shoot and rebound".............

I rewatched last nights game twice just focusing on JC....I wasn’t impressed. He rebounded versus a team that only ran 2 bigs all game. Offensively he was a mess. Defensively he was a mess. He blocked some shots, but his defense wasn’t impressive at all. And when he checked in the game the Bucks eyes lit up. He shouldn’t play more then OO at this point IMO... Hes a good piece to have on your team, but for 125 mill? Whew.......He has value around the League, that why I  think we should use him in a trade to find a player(players) that fit around Trae better...

On the other hand, OO made all the momentum plays. Stood up and battled with one of the top 40 players of all time. Man to man without doubling. It’ was amazing to see. Very few players can match Giannis, and OO is only 20 years old. Huge blocks. Huge rebounds. Huge deflections. Got to love OO.  I think Travis got that one right for sure...............

[Peoriabird]

37 minutes ago, terrell said:

. Bobby Portis shoots and rebounds even better while making

How does Portis shoot better?  John's career TS is .637 Portis is .543

[sturt]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I don't know his game very well but these are the kind of under the radar deals that can help with the playoff run.   Especially if they'll take 2nd rounder or something.

On the one hand, it's OKC... why of course they'll take a draft pick.

On the other, it's OKC... won't they eventually say, "Nah, we have plenty of those."

It's a really nice contract for someone who has proved a genuine contributor. To me, he's become consistently kinda what Solo has been if you could only have Solo when at his best (ie, when he was younger).

[Diesel]

Just for Grins...

What do you think of This Trade?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7z93jth 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, aali34 said:

I just said Gallo/Klay was a better shooter I never faulted him for his shortcomings.

If I'm not mistaken you said

"He's got areas in his game that he can improve on."

Which is Why I mentioned that he is ONE of 3 50/40 PFs to ever play the game Unless you want to consider Bird a PF.  Let that sink in for a second. 

1.  Dirk

2.  KD

3.  JC

Would you ever say that KD has areas in his game that he can improve on?

I believe that the Narrative should stop here. 

[terrell]

25 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

How does Portis shoot better?  John's career TS is .637 Portis is .543

Well they're both at 43% from deep this seasson... Thats what I was talking about....Theyre pretty much the same for 3 in their career...

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by terrell

[macdaddy]

9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Just for Grins...

What do you think of This Trade?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7z93jth 

It aint'  the worst i've seen.  I don't want to get rid of JC but this trade at least appeals to every team on some level.   

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

Well they're both at 43% from deep this seasson... Thats what I was talking about....

 

ain't nobody mad about Portis. IF he were on the trade Blocks, I would want him.  He shot 47% from Three last season. 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

It aint'  the worst i've seen.  I don't want to get rid of JC but this trade at least appeals to every team on some level.   

Yeah.. That's the way I looked at it too.  I makes you puke in your mouth abit and then you get happy.   That's all three teams. 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

Anyways, did I read that Cauley-Stein was released or something?  Is he trash or could he help our big man rotation?

He hasn't played since late November because of personal reasons.  

His has very low BBIQ.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Well they're both at 43% from deep this seasson... Thats what I was talking about....

 

1st of all if they both shoot 43% this season, How is one better than the other? Secondly, This year's TS is John .632.   Portis .583

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

Yeah.. That's the way I looked at it too.  I makes you puke in your mouth abit and then you get happy.   That's all three teams. 

I'm curious how folks think Tobias compares to JC on the court.   I realize Tobias is waay overpaid but in terms of pure skillset and contribution.  

[terrell]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

1st of all if they both shoot 43% this season, How is one better than the other? Secondly, This year's TS is John .632.   Portis .583

So this is all you took from that post about JC? lol.....A 4 mill dollar guy like Portis shoots it from deep just as good...That better?

All Im saying Is I think that $ could be used better. Collins isnt worth that contract imo... Take it how you want..

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by terrell

[aali34]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

If I'm not mistaken you said

"He's got areas in his game that he can improve on."

Which is Why I mentioned that he is ONE of 3 50/40 PFs to ever play the game Unless you want to consider Bird a PF.  Let that sink in for a second. 

1.  Dirk

2.  KD

3.  JC

Would you ever say that KD has areas in his game that he can improve on?

I believe that the Narrative should stop here. 

That depends on what you think he can and can't do. He's averaging almost 30ppg on high efficiency and also a little under 7 assists. You can't reasonably expect more on offense.

His defense has been better in the past but he is older, came off a serious injury and carries a heavy load so it would be asking too much of him. 

The difference is I think JC has it in him to be better in the areas he is currently lacking in. Therefore I have expectations for him. I don't call for him to play like an All-NBA defender because I don't think he can.

I call for him to take more 3s and improve his perimeter play because I think he can. I guess expecting big things out of somebody is hating now.

 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

So this is all you took from that post about JC? lol.....

 

No I was questioning a blatantly false statement

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm curious how folks think Tobias compares to JC on the court.   I realize Tobias is waay overpaid but in terms of pure skillset and contribution.  

Tobias to me... seems to be a good midrange shooter but sucks at the three and is not the finisher that JC is.   I think he has the same quality of not taking over but he can dribble.  His contract is just YUCK.

[terrell]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

No I was questioning a blatantly false statement

A cheap guy like Portis shoots it just as good from deep. That better?  lol... And it wasnt even about Portis.. I was just using him as an example.. smh

Edited January 18, 2022 by terrell