STAND PAT!!!!!!

[sturt]

Here are the critical, consequential 21 games of this season.

The red highlighting, as everyone probably surmises immediately, signals a player who wasn't supposed to be a starter, and in some cases, wasn't even supposed to be in the rotation, and in some cases wasn't even supposed to be on the 15-man roster.

And.

Setting aside the starting lineups, what does this say about who was rotating in to substitute from game to game?

 

[sturt]

CC believes, beyond the rotation's instability, there's been some complacence that's seriously had effect. Sounds like he even thinks that's been the major problem...

 

[JayBirdHawk]

That's a shame and very unfortunate. Just not the right approach.

[sturt]

Begs the question... since this introduces a third explanation...

Is it those 21 games of injury/covid-riden rotations?... Is it complacency?... Or is it more that this roster really isn't talented enough to expect any more than this?

 

[Final_quest]

CC is telling us about what our eyes clearly saw, an underperforming team.  Tough lesson for our young team to learn.  
 

We’ve been missing the swagger all year.  They got 25 games to show they can get it back.  

[sturt]

@Final_quest I'm particularly interested in how you answer the question posed, just b/c you and I have had some more extensive conversation on the general topic for a week.

 

Me, I believe complacency mainly explains being just 11-10 through the first 21 games.

And I believe it also probably helps explain the SAS loss... intertwined with the other explanation that our defense sucked.

I'm less certain complacency explains the BOS, DAL and two TOR losses, but I could be persuaded.

 

I don't believe it explains the 6-15 egg we laid for the six weeks of Dec 1 - Jan 15. The better explanation is the obvious explanation... too much volatility in the rotation, too much talent on the sidelines.

 

I don't believe 26-30 has had anything to do with a lack of talent on the roster--which stands in stark contrast to many (or most?) who frequent HS.

 

It's been volatility mainly. (Again... if we'd merely performed at the .538 clip of the rest of the season for those 21 games, we'd be a half-game ahead of Boston, in the #5 playoff slot today.)

 

But I can't help but believe we would have done better than .538 if not for the complacency factor that CC pointed to.

 

[Final_quest]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

Me, I believe complacency mainly explains being just 11-10 through the first 21 games.

 

 

That is it right there.  After the Dallas win in the opener, it seemed like we weren't playing up to our potential immediately. 

In your image where it shows all the times we played nonstarters and went 6-15, it still says that we would have been 12-9 if we played that stretch with actual starters.  12-9 is not the record of a contender.  So, you still have to explain the results of the season on the whole.  

I picked us to win 55 games and thought we would be a 3-5 seed.  It's not as if I expected us to play just below .500 for the year.  I believed in our talent, just thought we were still a significant addition away from being a contender.  

The GM says it.  Players are saying it.  We see it.  Complacency was/is an issue.  

The other issue is talent.  Very few contenders are made up of so many non allstars in their first 3 years in the league.  Trae came into the league as a star and we were able to win more quickly.  We still need more developed talent to be a contender.  At least an allstar to pair with Trae, but probably even more than that. 

We're much better than our record shows but still not at championship level.  Champions don't lay an egg like we did this year and I think it's clear we laid an egg. 

The other thing I will repeat is that we won't get an opportunity to see this group play together after this year.  There will be some key players gone and new ones in.  Anyone hung up on this core is gonna have to adjust because it will change in the offseason.  

[sturt]

21 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

That is it right there.  After the Dallas win in the opener, it seemed like we weren't playing up to our potential immediately. 

Had the same thought. Seemed like our guys might have been so impressed with the pulverizing of DAL that they figured it was just going to be that easy.

 

21 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

In your image where it shows all the times we played nonstarters and went 6-15, it still says that we would have been 12-9 if we played that stretch with actual starters.  12-9 is not the record of a contender.  So, you still have to explain the results of the season on the whole. 

Yeah, playing .538 ball translates to 44-38 overall.... last year, .538 ball would have gotten us 7th place in the conference... or 10th place in the other conference.

So, agreed.

Of course, to your point, I'd said...

 

3 hours ago, sturt said:

But I can't help but believe we would have done better than .538 if not for the complacency factor that CC pointed to.

 

21 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

The other issue is talent.  Very few contenders are made up of so many non allstars in their first 3 years in the league.  Trae came into the league as a star and we were able to win more quickly.  We still need more developed talent to be a contender.  At least an allstar to pair with Trae, but probably even more than that. 

We're much better than our record shows but still not at championship level.  Champions don't lay an egg like we did this year and I think it's clear we laid an egg. 

 

hehe... you're not budging, are ya

To that, I said this, of course...

 

3 hours ago, sturt said:

I don't believe 26-30 has had anything to do with a lack of talent on the roster--which stands in stark contrast to many (or most?) who frequent HS.

 

It's been volatility mainly. (Again... if we'd merely performed at the .538 clip of the rest of the season for those 21 games, we'd be a half-game ahead of Boston, in the #5 playoff slot today.)

 

But I can't help but believe we would have done better than .538 if not for the complacency factor that CC pointed to.

Soooooo... I've got it at about 33% roster volatility and 67% complacency... and 0% on the lack-of-talent.

 

... and... hmmmm....

 

I don't really get how one speaks of there being a complacency issue and at the same time claims there's a talent issue... seems to me, if you don't have the talent, then the complacency part doesn't even matter... complacent about what?... that you're really not that good, but you just feel like you are?

 

Oh well. Thanks for indulging me in some more conversation on it anyhow.

 

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

 

I don't really get how one speaks of there being a complacency issue and at the same time claims there's a talent issue... 

 

There have been a lot of paper champions over the years that did not show the mental toughness and heart of a champion. We’re not there.  
 

 I never said our talent is there either.  There’s only one team to win it all.  Having zero need for talent does not describe this roster.  No chance.  

[Spud2nique]

Ben who?… is he even playing?

[Spud2nique]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:18 PM, Spud2nique said:

I don’t want KAT.

I don’t want Ben.

I don’t want Turner.

WE BUILT THIS THIIINNNNGG!!!! Let’s watch it improve and grow within. It’s a mindset and mentality for us more than player trades. We have the talent. We are just young. (Some pun intended) 

 

I LOVE OUR CORE!!!!!!!

Whose with meeeeee!!!!

 

[swanlee]

I'm all in on keeping this team intact for 3-4 years and see what happens. We got a special team even with ups and downs

[JayBirdHawk]

34 minutes ago, swanlee said:

I'm all in on keeping this team intact for 3-4 years

Woah Buddy! Let's not get too far over our skis. Let's get through these Playoffs.

[Spud2nique]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:18 PM, Spud2nique said:

I don’t want KAT.

I don’t want Ben.

I don’t want Turner.

WE BUILT THIS THIIINNNNGG!!!! Let’s watch it improve and grow within. It’s a mindset and mentality for us more than player trades. We have the talent. We are just young. (Some pun intended) 

 

I LOVE OUR CORE!!!!!!!

Whose with meeeeee!!!!

 

NOBODY GETS TRADED EVEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!! KEEP THE CORE INTACT!!!

[Spud2nique]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:18 PM, Spud2nique said:

I don’t want KAT.

I don’t want Ben.

I don’t want Turner.

WE BUILT THIS THIIINNNNGG!!!! Let’s watch it improve and grow within. It’s a mindset and mentality for us more than player trades. We have the talent. We are just young. (Some pun intended) 

 

I LOVE OUR CORE!!!!!!!

Whose with meeeeee!!!!

 

Bump.

[Gray Mule]

Hawks need a big un.  I want rookie Mark Williams - Hornets.  When my children were growing up and any of them said "I want - - " they were told. "You're big enough that your wants won't hurt you."

I resemble this remark.  I still want him.  Keep your big players on this list.  Give me MW.

What would he cost?  Who knows?  What would any of these large players on this list cost?  I'll bet that they would cost more than MW and I'd rather have my choice.  As I say, "I want - - -"

[Spud2nique]

19 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Hawks need a big un.  I want rookie Mark Williams - Hornets.  When my children were growing up and any of them said "I want - - " they were told. "You're big enough that your wants won't hurt you."

I resemble this remark.  I still want him.  Keep your big players on this list.  Give me MW.

What would he cost?  Who knows?  What would any of these large players on this list cost?  I'll bet that they would cost more than MW and I'd rather have my choice.  As I say, "I want - - -"

 

The kids these days eh gramps.. want want want.. we’ll adults have some damn wants too  

[Spud2nique]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:18 PM, Spud2nique said:

I don’t want KAT.

I don’t want Ben.

I don’t want Turner.

WE BUILT THIS THIIINNNNGG!!!! Let’s watch it improve and grow within. It’s a mindset and mentality for us more than player trades. We have the talent. We are just young. (Some pun intended) 

 

I LOVE OUR CORE!!!!!!!

Whose with meeeeee!!!!

 

A year and 2 weeks later and I’m still here. (Despite the Huerter loss and DM add).

[theheroatl]

I think we need a Draymond Green type player. Don't stand pat.

What are the available options? Ben and Draymond (next year)? Grant Williams?

Also known as a Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman type player.

 

Nets want more PPG on offense so they are convinced by Landry of this traded:

Edited February 7, 2023 by theheroatl

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, theheroatl said:

I think we need a Draymond Green type player. Don't stand pat.

What are the available options? Ben and Draymond (next year)? Grant Williams?

Also known as a Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman type player.

 

Nets want more PPG on offense so they are convinced by Landry of this traded:

Hawks are taking on +$5 mil in salary.  That pushes them over the tax. They aren't  and shouldn't pay the tax for Simmons. 

Simmonsbisva shell of himself  and pairing with Capela will be disastrous.