STAND PAT!!!!!!

[kg01]

9 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Booker, Lavine, Klay

I must say, this is one of the most galling posts I've read in a while.

You chide everybody else about making unrealistic trade demands and you list 3 of the least likely acquisitions in the entirety of the league?

Cmon, bleachk.  You're better than this.

I think, just as you often ask of the rest of us, you should explain why either of those teams would get rid of that player.

[bleachkit]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I must say, this is one of the most galling posts I've read in a while.

You chide everybody else about making unrealistic trade demands and you list 3 of the least likely acquisitions in the entirety of the league?

Cmon, bleachk.  You're better than this.

I think, just as you often ask of the rest of us, you should explain why either of those teams would get rid of that player.

Dude, you really think Im being serious there?

[sturt]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I'll just say this.  Championship level teams are normally derailed when their star or all-star player is out, and not by a few role players.

If our group is that fragile, then I don't see how we can be a Finals contender.  Last year's group seemed a lot more mentally tougher for some reason, despite it being virtually the same personnel.

1. CC is a "role player?" Hmmm... sure seemed to have a central role last year, no? Bogi wasn't as consistently "central," but there were irrefutably key moments where his taking scoring burden off of Trae was uber-important. Add to that, virtually every player has missed 10-25% of the season.

2. Championship caliber teams are a lot like championship caliber offensive lines... they really do need to play together... they really do develop chemistry that is pivotal... or they don't. This roster has had practically no stability for any length of time even now.

3. It was a Finals contender last year. And it's a more mature team this year. I would appeal to the idea that what's being taken as less "mentally tough" is not that.... rather... see #2.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

Dude, you really think Im being serious there?

Dangit, you tellin' me for the second time in 2 days I'm ...

[Atlantaholic]

I don't see the urgency to blow this up. Give it at least until the end of this season, last year should give this squad and coaching staff at least that much rope. If this was a juicy market to go shopping than by all means make moves, but with Ben Simmons as the big prize I don't see waht we have to lose to see what this team can do. Next year with Clint becoming tradeable we'll have even more powder to make moves so if it doesn't work out then we have all the same assets + Clint that we currently have to deal. It's even possible the Charlotte pick is still intact.  

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Dangit, you tellin' me for the second time in 2 days I'm ...

We dont have a snowball's chance in Hades of getting one of those guys. The only truly impact guys available are Simmons, Grant, Gordon and your pick of the Sacramento lot (Barnes, Hield, Bagley, etc). No one else is looking to sell. 

[sturt]

30 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

We had plenty of chances this season to demonstrate that we have championship pedigree

That's simply not accurate, my friend.

Maybe my earlier post was overlooked(?).

 

[kg01]

Just now, bleachkit said:

We dont have a snowball's chance in Hades of getting one of those guys. The only truly impact guys available are Simmons, Grant, Gordon and your pick of the Sacramento lot (Barnes, Hield, Bagley, etc). No one else is looking to sell. 

All this is true.

You're other post was clearly a pumpfake.  Instead of keeping true to my defensive principles, I skyrocketed up to the rafters hoping to stuff that weak jumper.

You basically took a Trae Young lean into my falling body and we're just waiting to see if the refs award your and-1.

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I'll just say this.  Championship level teams are normally derailed when their star or all-star player is out, and not by a few role players.

If our group is that fragile, then I don't see how we can be a Finals contender.  Last year's group seemed a lot more mentally tougher for some reason, despite it being virtually the same personnel.

I mean i agree somewhat but tell me why the Steph and Draymond led Warriors sucked last year but not this year?

[Final_quest]

6 minutes ago, sturt said:

That's simply not accurate, my friend.

Maybe my earlier post was overlooked(?).

 

OK.  Outside of a very small number of Hawks fans, who is calling us contenders?  That's why this is homer talk.  Only homers would say what you are saying.  

We've had a lot of nights where a majority of our roster is playing, and they looked nothing like contenders.  Meanwhile Bulls lose a starter.  Cleveland loses a starter.  They keep winning.  There are very few moments where an NBA roster is fully healthy.  When we win a majority of games for an extended period you can start talking about being a championship level team.  You just can't be credible and make that claim right now.  

[swanlee]

Yea I think we need maybe a few tweaks but keep the core intact. It has been a crazy year and at one point we had 2/3rd of our team consist of 10 day contract players.

We need to stay the course with Nate and this core for a few years. We need a good vet backup PG, and we need to get Cooper and Jalen more involved and get Cap healthy. We should be good on the roster front. 

I think any concept of trading Collins is stupid, he has shown the ability to adjust to his role here and just signed a huge contract last off season WHY would we move him now?

Edited January 20, 2022 by swanlee

[hazer]

All hinges on Bogi’s return: if he’s late season ‘21 Bogi, we good. If he’s more of the same meh we’ve been getting lately, needs to be tossed into a trade for a better 2. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

OK.  Outside of a very small number of Hawks fans, who is calling us contenders?  That's why this is homer talk.  Only homers would say what you are saying.  

We've had a lot of nights where a majority of our roster is playing, and they looked nothing like contenders.  Meanwhile Bulls lose a starter.  Cleveland loses a starter.  They keep winning.  There are very few moments where an NBA roster is fully healthy.  When we win a majority of games for an extended period you can start talking about being a championship level team.  You just can't be credible and make that claim right now.  

FQ,  When we were two games out of the finals last year before the ref's foot of stone ended Trae's season...  Were we contenders?

So the question becomes what defines a contender?  Because obviously, us beating NY in the playoffs, Beating Philly in the playoffs and being 2 games away from the finals didn't do it for you. 

It's ludicrous to think that you will have the same results with a team full of 10 dayers as you would with your regular team.  We've been beat up by COVID, Beat up by injury, hasn't been able to establish consistency because of that.. and you expect us to have the look and the record of a72 win team... or whatever you consider a contender.  If we had never had a deep and dominant playoff run then you would be right... we're not contenders.  But we were in the final four teams last year.  We dominated on our way to that final four.   We didn't limp or luck into that.  Other teams have made moves and gotten better.  But to suggest that we're not contenders.. that we don't have the ability to contend with this leagues best... That's false. 

For as long as one of the best players in the league is suiting up with a Hawks Uniform and we're not eliminated from the playoffs, we are contenders.

 

[RedDawg#8]

I have always thought that we had enough on this roster to do what was needed to be done this season. I feel as if the biggest issue has been internal/mental/strategic/chemistry as opposed to an actual talent deficit.

With that in mind I WAS open to a trade for a big time player, but after the Cam/Knox deal, I am not as willing to move more core pieces as I already don't like midseason deals to begin with (there are never clear winners typically), and there isn't any proposed deal that has truly tickled my fancy.

Ben Simmons sounds good on paper, but at what cost, and what will be left for us to build with? JC may not be as good as Ben, but JC is NOT afraid to shoot the ball in big time games, especially if left wide open. 

Their playoff averages last year are very telling.  Where Simmons was able to be playmaker, his shooting was god awful. He was worse than Giannis or even Clint from the line. And he refused to shoot the ball from the outside. We would lose a PF that stretches the floor, is a vertical threat at the rim, has chemistry with Trae, and is one of the few locker room voices. Just to bring in a guy that is basically a fast break specialist, and in the half court would either take the ball out of Trae's hand OR if Trae does have the ball, Simmons defender would be able to cheat and further help trap on Trae. 

I don't know man. Simmons is clearly a beast and great in the regular season, but, come playoff time, his teams have imploded because of him and his lack of spacing and willingness to shoot.

 

[sturt]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Outside of a very small number of Hawks fans, who is calling us contenders?

How is that substantive?

Who cares?

Were they calling us contenders going into Madison Square Garden? Two words. Hell and no.

Were they calling us contenders going into Philly? Ditto and ditto.

Were they calling us contenders going into Brew City? Heeeeeeeelllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll no.

What other people think is immaterial. They aren't paying attention to us. Most Hawks fans, for that matter, aren't dialed in evidently very well, because there's evolved this dementia in some cases, apathy in other cases to the facts of what's confounded this season and made it so very different from last. If Hawks fans themselves aren't, then who's surprised that others' assessment would be less than critically thought-out? Right?

 

The facts are what the facts are, and the lines of reason incorporating those facts as a basis for the conclusion (that this roster is fully equipped to contend, pending health) are stout.

 

(And by the way, no one is guaranteed health, stating the obvious. Make a trade today, thinking you're getting a healthy asset, but who's to say what will happen.)

 

Annnnnd... forgive me. I see that @Diesel mostly said what I said already.

[warcore]

5 hours ago, shakes said:

I also think we overrated Collins significantly.   He can't create his own offense and isn't a good shooter.

You really think this?

[sturt]

2 hours ago, swanlee said:

at one point we had 2/3rd of our team consist of 10 day contract players.

Yep. And it was at that time that I proposed... just before going into hibernation mode... the league and its media partners were really doing us fans a disservice by continuing to pretend all was well and this was "professional" basketball.

[shakes]

15 minutes ago, warcore said:

You really think this?

should've qualified that as outside shooter.  He's a mediocre outside shooter and yet another player on our team who can' t make wide open corner 3s.

 

 

[Final_quest]

You guys can give your opinion, and I will state mine.  

Were we contenders last year?  No. 
We out performed our actual standing in the league, and Milwaukee proved they had a championship supporting cast when they beat our supporting cast.  We got to isolate those conditions when both of our best players went down.  The Hawks were awesome, but Milwaukee had 3 all stars instead of 1 which proved to be the difference.
Getting to the final 4 teams is not always an indicator that you are a true contender, and in our case this year's results are a good indicator that we were not an actual top 4 team last year. 

What makes a contender? You usually need at least two HOF players on your roster.  Many teams have three, and many of them who win the title are two way players.  (But the Pistons? Yeah they are the exception to the rule.)

It's cool to believe that we have a championship level roster, but I consider that a homer take, which is fine.  Believe what you want, and I'm cheering for the same result as you.  I just believe we still need to improve the roster and add at least one major piece, that's the difference.

 

[Atlantaholic]

1 hour ago, hazer said:

All hinges on Bogi’s return: if he’s late season ‘21 Bogi, we good. If he’s more of the same meh we’ve been getting lately, needs to be tossed into a trade for a better 2. 

If that's what we are banking on that's not gonna happen. I would settle for the Bogi he has been throughout the first part of his career which is somewhere in between what he's been this year and second half of last year.