STAND PAT!!!!!!

[sturt]

31 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

And what percentage of teams would you say have done that this season?

It's a good question that I'll let someone else research.

But whatever the number teams, for each one of those teams, that statement applies.

The ATL GM, at least, has the benefit of seeing his roster mostly intact for the last 40-ish regular season games of last season, plus the post season.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I’m not contradicting myself.  I never said every team with two future HOF players is a contender.  I said the champions have two HOF guys.  That holds up over decades.  
 

Doesn’t mean every team that gets two HOF guys is a contender.  
 

You need a car to drive across the country.  It doesn’t mean every person who gets a car is driving that far.  

When GS won it's first Championship.. in that moment, how many HOFers did they have on the roster?

[hazer]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

 

Ayooooooooo!!!

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

When GS won it's first Championship.. in that moment, how many HOFers did they have on the roster?

That hold up over the decade thing...

I believe that when you look at the bulk of teams that won championships the first time, they had 1 or no future HOFers on the team.   It was the actual winning of the championship that gave them the HOF look. 

Before GS won their championship... They were a good team to watch but nobdy was saying Klay or Draymond = HOF worthy.  They were barely saying Steph.  Steph didn't even win the MVP of the Finals. 

When Magic won his first finals, Nobody was saying HOFer.  He was just a great rookie.  He hadn't built a HOF career yet. 

BTW, you keep saying it's only Detroit but Kobe took a team of nobodies.   Olajuwon took a team full of Nobodies (the first year).   When Chicago won it's first championship, Pippen was a good Robin but nobody was calling him a HOFer. 

Stop Hindsighting this.

[Watchman]

11 hours ago, shakes said:

Naw, we need a major upgrade at 2 guard.    The two guys we have there now (bogi/Huerter) are terrible defenders and mediocre shooters at best.     Can't have that combination next to Trae.   Either put a lockdown defender there or put a lights out shooter there.    

I also think we overrated Collins significantly.   He can't create his own offense and isn't a good shooter.

 

I would be shopping a package of Collins/Bogi/1st hard.  Or switch Bogi and Huerter, really doesn't matter since they both suck equally.

I saw Collins create his own offense last night and on other nights.  He dribbled in from the corner and made a shot from inside the paint.  It was as plain as day,  yet you guys accuse me of not watching the game.

[QuantumHawkz]

14 hours ago, Diesel said:

About Cam.

Whether on purpose or accidental.  I think that On Some occasions if Cam wasn't getting treated like "the man" he phoned it in. 

When Trae went down with COVID Protocol.

We played Orlando, NY, and Chicago Twice.  Cam put fourth great effort... Was a top scorer.

Trae Comes back and we played Cleveland.  Cam gives us Nothing. 

Cam didn't play vs. PTL (the next game). Trae puts up 56.

Trae didn't play against Sacramento (the next game) and Cam had his best game scoring 36.

The Next two games vs. the Lakers and the Clipps.. Trae played and Cam didnt do anything.  Literally 18 minutes of Nothing vs. LAL.

The game after that Cam Sat and then he was traded. 

 

I think it's been understated about Cam's performance.   I remember after the Sacramento game, some posters were saying that Trae's game effects Cam's play negatively.  And Everybody else's play negatively.  You expect in a loss, there will be blame. 

However, after considering it more and putting it into some type of perspective, I think if Cam wasn't the starring role, he didn't go hard.   Maybe he and Trae had some issue with each other (which may be why he asked for a trade?)  But whatever it is...

Since he's been gone.. Even in the losses, we are playing harder. 

 

Great points. I'll do you one better...... look at the playoff run from last season. No Cam we played lights out.... Trae goes down ,Cam comes back and balled...I think you're right.

[QuantumHawkz]

Look what I've found........ it's the truth also .......

Now the Hawks have moved away from the awkwardness in the locker room which is caused by teammates knowing that a player does not want to be there. This means that the team is back on the same page and they are all pulling towards the same goal.

 

On top of that, the second unit is now more of a team, rather than watching one player trying to increase his trade value, taking away the designated roles that help a team succeed. Delon Wright has been a different player since Reddish was traded.

[Diesel]

25 minutes ago, QuantumHawkz said:

On top of that, the second unit is now more of a team, rather than watching one player trying to increase his trade value, taking away the designated roles that help a team succeed. Delon Wright has been a different player since Reddish was traded.

Very good point.  With the second team, I used to wonder why it always seemed like they were just out there trying to get their shot up... When I watch now, I applaud their ball movement.   I think Delon said, he's not Trae, he plays differently and you can't help but notice the chemistry between Him and Lou (the other guys) with Gallo. 

[Final_quest]

10 hours ago, Diesel said:

When GS won it's first Championship.. in that moment, how many HOFers did they have on the roster?

Klay can drop 37 points in a quarter and play good defense.  We don’t have a second guy on his level.  
 

If you want to stand pat because you don’t like any deals available, fine.  
 

Claiming contender status is fine, too.  But you have to realize you are in an extreme minority with that take.  We’re a mess right now.  

[Atlantaholic]

11 hours ago, sturt said:

It's a good question that I'll let someone else research.

But whatever the number teams, for each one of those teams, that statement applies.

The ATL GM, at least, has the benefit of seeing his roster mostly intact for the last 40-ish regular season games of last season, plus the post season.

Not many, which is why the east has been wide open all season long with around 6 teams within 2.5 games of first place. 

[macdaddy]

I love Collins and don't' want to move him.  But I also disagree with the idea that we aren't using him enough.   He is limited offensively.  You just have to watch the games to see that.   If he has a good defender his size on him or is doubled then he's trying to get rid of the ball.   That's ok.  He's smart.  It's why he shoots such i high percentage. 

Folks watch the games for Trae/JC.   If Simmons was a more complete player then i'd be all for bringing him in but he has his own pretty big weaknesses.  But one thing we know is that Trae/JC works.   We don't know that Trae/Simmons will work at all.  It's a pretty big risk that could blow up.  Think about why the Sixers don't want Simmons anyway.   It's not because he refused to play.   They beat him down publicly season.  He didn't deserve it but also he's a max player that they decided they don't want or need.   Do we want that?

[sturt]

 

 

 

Would just emphasize that regardless of how many other teams' rosters are confounded from solid assessment given the statement made...

(ie, the standard that your best 10 players need to be have been available for about 90% of your games in order to have good data from which to draw conclusions)

... where our conversations and more importantly the GM's conversations are concerned, it means our best data in rendering this roster's prognosis is last season's data.

 

 

And that's all that actually matters... not what other teams are able to conclude internally for their assessments of themselves. That's just noise, and superfluous to the pivotal question of how the Hawks are smartest to proceed.

 

So. Again.

 

 

 

[Atlantaholic]

9 hours ago, macdaddy said:

I love Collins and don't' want to move him.  But I also disagree with the idea that we aren't using him enough.   He is limited offensively.  You just have to watch the games to see that.   If he has a good defender his size on him or is doubled then he's trying to get rid of the ball.   That's ok.  He's smart.  It's why he shoots such i high percentage. 

Folks watch the games for Trae/JC.   If Simmons was a more complete player then i'd be all for bringing him in but he has his own pretty big weaknesses.  But one thing we know is that Trae/JC works.   We don't know that Trae/Simmons will work at all.  It's a pretty big risk that could blow up.  Think about why the Sixers don't want Simmons anyway.   It's not because he refused to play.   They beat him down publicly season.  He didn't deserve it but also he's a max player that they decided they don't want or need.   Do we want that?

In a vacuum without any of the baggage on one side or the chemistry on the other I'm not even sure Ben Simmons is better than John Collins. 

[Spud2nique]

Stand pat bump. 3 game win streak! 
 

I LOVE OUR CORE!!!! 
 

[Diesel]

To Me... To ME... 

There are only 2 or three tradable guys on this team:

Deing and Maybe Bogi.  I'll entertain Kev to OKC for the right player (SGA or Giddey). 

but other than that...  STAND PAT.

I see no reason to trade JC.  It's both Chemistry and his output.   Like him or not, he's the vocal leader of this team.  If he had Captain Cs, he would have one.  But aside from that, JC goes out and plays hard, hits shots, and works.   Even when overmatched. 

I was the first to say I would take Simmons in a heartbeat.  Well, not at the price of losing JC. 

If Bogi/Gallo could get Simmons, I would think about it.  But prolly wouldn't pull.   It's a matter of Chemistry.  I like what Gallo Brings off the bench.   

I don't want to move Delon.. in fact, I think Delon could be that guy who can play beside Trae from time to time and allow Trae to play offball. 

I just think our Chemistry is starting to come around and Nate is starting to find a coaching grove. 

[hazer]

Bogi/Gallo/Knox/1st for Simmons, or stand pat. Could really use an elite playmaker/stopper to put us over the top, but not at the expense of losing JC. The chemistry and effort is just looking too good all of a sudden.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, hazer said:

Could really use an elite playmaker/stopper

That would be great.

And video game Ben, yes, qualifies.

Real life Ben? That's a different Ben. Real life Ben brings those elements. But also brings other elements (of course).

It's a lot like the question of marrying the hot girl who you imagine to be great in your bed, but who you've seen behave like a train wreck outside of it.

Worse... to get the hot girl, her dad expects a substantial dowry to be paid.

 

Oh. And Knox is ours. He can't be dealt before the deadline.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Oh. And Knox is ours. He can't be dealt before the deadline.

No flipping him again huh? 

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

No flipping him again huh? 

 

(That's what @JayBirdHawk wrote, and I'm 99.9% sure she's correct.)

[JTB]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

To Me... To ME... 

There are only 2 or three tradable guys on this team:

Deing and Maybe Bogi.  I'll entertain Kev to OKC for the right player (SGA or Giddey). 

but other than that...  STAND PAT.

I see no reason to trade JC.  It's both Chemistry and his output.   Like him or not, he's the vocal leader of this team.  If he had Captain Cs, he would have one.  But aside from that, JC goes out and plays hard, hits shots, and works.   Even when overmatched. 

I was the first to say I would take Simmons in a heartbeat.  Well, not at the price of losing JC. 

If Bogi/Gallo could get Simmons, I would think about it.  But prolly wouldn't pull.   It's a matter of Chemistry.  I like what Gallo Brings off the bench.   

I don't want to move Delon.. in fact, I think Delon could be that guy who can play beside Trae from time to time and allow Trae to play offball. 

I just think our Chemistry is starting to come around and Nate is starting to find a coaching grove. 

If they keep this up I still think a trade is needed but not at the expense of JC. I’m looking at Jermi Grant now straight up for Bogi and a 1st rd pick