The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[thecampster]

9 hours ago, phoostal said:

Do you expect them to keep or trade the 16th pick?

Its being heavily shopped but with only mild interest at this point.

[thecampster]

20 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Bogi - when healthy - is the closest thing the Hawks have to a 2nd option imo. He can get scary hot where teams have to pay attention. Don't think there's anyone else on the team that even makes teams concerned when they are hot.

Hunter may get there eventually, but he's still waaaay to inconsistent. More likely he goes cold before end of game than he stays hot. 

The problem there is he gives up as much as gets most nights. His +/- was helped because Gallo and Wright got hot with that second unit at the same time but his defensive effort/(knee's ability) results in a lot of red cape plays.

When on the floor and no Hunter, Huerter often drew the toughest defensive assignment. When on the floor and no Trae, Bogi was drawing the easiest most nights.  Teams would go directly at Bogi, almost never even using pick n roll to go at him. His defense was a huge liability when on the floor with Trae.

The one bright spot with Bogi/Gallo on the floor together was some high efficiency bench offense most nights. This led to a lot of out of bounds sets for the opponent, way less transition. Helped the defense of our second unit.

[thecampster]

One last set of thoughts before I put in some actual work this morning.

 

The Cam situation last year had some long term effects on the locker room as did the end of the bench turnover. Although the team played better after he was gone, there was some competition for leadership.  The loss of Rondo, Solo, others left the team without internal leadership and some personalities emerged to challenge Trae, Hunter, Bogi. Part of what the team is going to address in the offseason is to get back a harmonious locker room. They aren't knifing each other, don't read too much into this but the Cam situation and Solo going down had some people try to step in to fill the void who had opinions that weren't in unison with what the team was trying to accomplish. You saw some people's playing time come to a halt, seats on the bench change. A lot of the youthful comradery of rookie contracts ended and people started challenging each other and the coaching staff in practice. People testing their alpha voice in an unwilling room.

Nate didn't lose the locker room and he navigated what was a natural maturation process of a team fairly well but a lot of these guys aren't going out bowling together on days off.  They aren't close. There are factions (for lack of a better word) and part of the move to shake up the roster is going to be trying to create a better cohesion.  With each of our previous rookie classes, new bodies were welcomed with open arms. This year's squad was put on blast early they would have to earn floor minutes. They weren't immediately brought into the fold with the vets.  Some vets were told "this is your role" and were discontent as they felt they could do more.  No one was happy with the covid restrictions, testing (there is an underlying story there about privacy, feeling watched league wide).  The whole social dynamic was constantly just off.

Again, this isn't/wasn't a violent or angry situation but there was a missing brotherhood feeling. There was more of a "I need to get mine" mentality.  Team execs are looking to add by subtraction by getting players more concerned with winning than with their personal brand/next contract/personal ego.  Every pack has Alphas, Betas and Thetas.  We have a lot of Betas....too many....too many wannabe heir apparent to the alpha crown.  Not enough buy in.

[thecampster]

Its not to say Cam had an open opinion....that's not what I mean. It was just the elephant in the room disrupting everything.  Once he was gone, the other issues (the leadership vacuum) came to the front. Its why we saw better play immediately after. It wasn't Cam leaving, we're happy. It was "okay, now that we're past that, let me show everyone why we should be doing it my way" and effort went up.

[REHawksFan]

34 minutes ago, thecampster said:

The problem there is he gives up as much as gets most nights. His +/- was helped because Gallo and Wright got hot with that second unit at the same time but his defensive effort/(knee's ability) results in a lot of red cape plays.

When on the floor and no Hunter, Huerter often drew the toughest defensive assignment. When on the floor and no Trae, Bogi was drawing the easiest most nights.  Teams would go directly at Bogi, almost never even using pick n roll to go at him. His defense was a huge liability when on the floor with Trae.

The one bright spot with Bogi/Gallo on the floor together was some high efficiency bench offense most nights. This led to a lot of out of bounds sets for the opponent, way less transition. Helped the defense of our second unit.

Yeah....my post was speaking strictly to the offensive end. We desperately need more perimeter defense.  I get that.  I guess I'm not convinced we'll get a legit 2nd option AND improve the perimeter defense in a single player.  Likely gonna take multiple players, each with their own specialty.  

[terrell]

6 hours ago, Sothron said:

I firmly expect Bogi to be traded and either Capela or JC traded as well. I would be shocked if two of those three guys are on the roster next season.

Yeah lets trade our other 2 most important players in Bogi and CC, and keep JC and Huerter soft asses.. smh

Bogi I can understand with the knee issues, but Im still keeping him over Kevin. Bogi has that dog mentality at least and his contract is shorter...

And keeping JC over CC is laughable unless we're bringing in a dominate defensive center.. And Id still want a perimeter oriented PF..

Edited May 17, 2022 by terrell

[terrell]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

The trade: 

Bogi, JC, Gallo to LAC for PG13 and Morris

Gives LAC size and cap relief. 

PG13 even on that side of 30 is a good match for Trae. 

Id make that trade all day long..

Edited May 17, 2022 by terrell

[kg01]

31 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Every pack has Alphas, Betas and Thetas.  We have a lot of Betas....too many....too many wannabe heir apparent to the alpha crown.  Not enough buy in.

All this tells me is the lockerroom is just like the squawk.  A buncha betas and zetas up in dis bish.  Tryna challenge my alpha voice.

[thecampster]

39 minutes ago, kg01 said:

All this tells me is the lockerroom is just like the squawk.  A buncha betas and zetas up in dis bish.  Tryna challenge my alpha voice.

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

One last set of thoughts before I put in some actual work this morning.

 

The Cam situation last year had some long term effects on the locker room as did the end of the bench turnover. Although the team played better after he was gone, there was some competition for leadership.  The loss of Rondo, Solo, others left the team without internal leadership and some personalities emerged to challenge Trae, Hunter, Bogi. Part of what the team is going to address in the offseason is to get back a harmonious locker room. They aren't knifing each other, don't read too much into this but the Cam situation and Solo going down had some people try to step in to fill the void who had opinions that weren't in unison with what the team was trying to accomplish. You saw some people's playing time come to a halt, seats on the bench change. A lot of the youthful comradery of rookie contracts ended and people started challenging each other and the coaching staff in practice. People testing their alpha voice in an unwilling room.

Nate didn't lose the locker room and he navigated what was a natural maturation process of a team fairly well but a lot of these guys aren't going out bowling together on days off.  They aren't close. There are factions (for lack of a better word) and part of the move to shake up the roster is going to be trying to create a better cohesion.  With each of our previous rookie classes, new bodies were welcomed with open arms. This year's squad was put on blast early they would have to earn floor minutes. They weren't immediately brought into the fold with the vets.  Some vets were told "this is your role" and were discontent as they felt they could do more.  No one was happy with the covid restrictions, testing (there is an underlying story there about privacy, feeling watched league wide).  The whole social dynamic was constantly just off.

Again, this isn't/wasn't a violent or angry situation but there was a missing brotherhood feeling. There was more of a "I need to get mine" mentality.  Team execs are looking to add by subtraction by getting players more concerned with winning than with their personal brand/next contract/personal ego.  Every pack has Alphas, Betas and Thetas.  We have a lot of Betas....too many....too many wannabe heir apparent to the alpha crown.  Not enough buy in.

 

Based on things you had said at the deadline I thought this was the case which is why i think there are players who'd rather be elsewhere.  And I'd still say that in game support from a lot of the bench seemed more cursory than actually excited. 

The big bummer for me is i still believe JC is the heart of the team and we're much better off with him.  But the fact still remains we need a another true baller to go with Trae.  Not role players.

[Spud2nique]

9 hours ago, bird_dirt said:

PG is on the wrong side of 30 for this team. 

Agreed. Don’t wanna see 7-26 from pg13 and a choke job in the playoffs. Easy pass.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

Id make that trade all day long..

Aaaaaannnnd my instincts were right again. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

Its not to say Cam had an open opinion....that's not what I mean. It was just the elephant in the room disrupting everything.  Once he was gone, the other issues (the leadership vacuum) came to the front. Its why we saw better play immediately after. It wasn't Cam leaving, we're happy. It was "okay, now that we're past that, let me show everyone why we should be doing it my way" and effort went up.

Haha..

Cam took that crap to NY and Thibs showed him what the end of the bench looks like. 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

alpha voice.

1-855-NBA-JUMP

Put you voice where your mouth is..

I mean….yeaaaa 

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Agreed. Don’t wanna see 7-26 from pg13 and a choke job in the playoffs. Easy pass.

If you can't see the great mix that George and Trae would be.. you're missing it.  I have a feeling that LAC wants to try the Kawhi + PG13 experience one time.. but If they were in a trading mode, they wouldn't find a better more helpful trade.   I think JC would fit very nicely with their team.  They have Powell.  Bogi gives them some shooting and they can buy out Gallo. 

 

[RandomFan]

12 hours ago, thecampster said:

From the list:

Everyone else on the gone list should be gone. (Gallo, Lou, Dieng)

Bogi back is 25/75 (I don't have time to write this out).

 

 

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

The Cam situation last year had some long term effects on the locker room as did the end of the bench turnover. Although the team played better after he was gone, there was some competition for leadership.  The loss of Rondo, Solo, others left the team without internal leadership and some personalities emerged to challenge Trae, Hunter, Bogi. Part of what the team is going to address in the offseason is to get back a harmonious locker room. They aren't knifing each other, don't read too much into this but the Cam situation and Solo going down had some people try to step in to fill the void who had opinions that weren't in unison with what the team was trying to accomplish. You saw some people's playing time come to a halt, seats on the bench change. A lot of the youthful comradery of rookie contracts ended and people started challenging each other and the coaching staff in practice. People testing their alpha voice in an unwilling room.

Nate didn't lose the locker room and he navigated what was a natural maturation process of a team fairly well but a lot of these guys aren't going out bowling together on days off.  They aren't close. There are factions (for lack of a better word) and part of the move to shake up the roster is going to be trying to create a better cohesion.  With each of our previous rookie classes, new bodies were welcomed with open arms. This year's squad was put on blast early they would have to earn floor minutes. They weren't immediately brought into the fold with the vets.  Some vets were told "this is your role" and were discontent as they felt they could do more.  No one was happy with the covid restrictions, testing (there is an underlying story there about privacy, feeling watched league wide).  The whole social dynamic was constantly just off.

Again, this isn't/wasn't a violent or angry situation but there was a missing brotherhood feeling. There was more of a "I need to get mine" mentality.  Team execs are looking to add by subtraction by getting players more concerned with winning than with their personal brand/next contract/personal ego.  Every pack has Alphas, Betas and Thetas.  We have a lot of Betas....too many....too many wannabe heir apparent to the alpha crown.  Not enough buy in.

Edited May 17, 2022 by RandomFan

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Bogi - when healthy - is the closest thing the Hawks have to a 2nd option imo. He can get scary hot where teams have to pay attention. Don't think there's anyone else on the team that even makes teams concerned when they are hot.

Hunter may get there eventually, but he's still waaaay to inconsistent. More likely he goes cold before end of game than he stays hot. 

If only we could combine Bogi and Huerter into one player. Huerter's health and defense with Bogi's fire.

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If only we could combine Bogi and Huerter into one player. Huerter's health and defense with Bogi's fire.

I really don't like the people bashing Huerter's defense. He's constantly asked to guard the hardest cover on the floor when Hunter isn't playing and if not, the 2nd hardest.  There was a game with NY where he was constantly being switched between Barrett and Randall so they could hide others and people were bagging on him a few days later.  All I could think was:

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

I really don't like the people bashing Huerter's defense. He's constantly asked to guard the hardest cover on the floor when Hunter isn't playing and if not, the 2nd hardest

Agreed.  He's not a lockdown defender but his defense is overlooked. I think he took a step back on defense this past year compared to last year.  I think Nate's defensive schemes had a lot to do with our performance this year as well.

This is from Hunter end of season review:

Quote

While he had a largely solid year defensively, after the Cam Reddish trade Hunter was tasked with a lot of difficult assignments, and it became clear that his shift to more minutes at the power forward position changed his defensive role within the team. While some of this can be matchup-dependent to counter teams that go small, there’s a clear split in his defensive responsibilities when playing a more perimeter-oriented 3 versus him at the 4. According to Basketball-Reference, Hunter was estimated to play at small forward 65% of the time and power forward 35% of the time.

The coaching staff clearly wanted him to crowd the paint and stay at or below the level of screens and avoid switching as much as if he were playing on the perimeter.

In other words, there was a clear pivot in his workload before and after the Reddish deal with the New York Knicks, and the burden of taking on the opposing team’s best player night in and night out took a major toll. This was compounded when either John Collins or Danilo Gallinari weren’t available at forward.

But on the balance, Hunter played admiral defense — often against the opponent’s best perimeter player.

 

[kg01]

6 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I really don't like the people bashing Huerter's defense. He's constantly asked to guard the hardest cover on the floor when Hunter isn't playing and if not, the 2nd hardest.  There was a game with NY where he was constantly being switched between Barrett and Randall so they could hide others and people were bagging on him a few days later.  All I could think was:

Well it's tough.  He's not as bad as people say.  However, he most certainly is good for at least one 'no-no-no-don't foul him' swipe down for an and1 every game.

And that's a fact, jacqueline.