The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[macdaddy]

Trae / Delon  - I'm good here

Bogi / Kev / Delon - Need new a starting 2

Hunter / Kev - we need a backup vet SF who is physical

JC / Gallo / JJ - assume Gallo is gone.  I hope JJ pans out but we may need a vet back up here

Capela / OO - I'm good here

 

New starting 2.   Vet wing for the bench and a vet big.   

[AUhawksfan]

10 hours ago, MaceCase said:

He’s likely a cap causality regardless like PJ Tucker before the season.  Bucks might dismiss this season due to the Middleton injury and try to run it back but they’ve got a lot of key FAs on an already expensive core. 
 

I like Portis, just not as a replacement for a starter, but that is high quality depth that needs to be looked at. His toughness, athleticism, rebounding, defensive versatility, and shooting means you can mix and match him with any and all of the current frontcourt. 

Yeah, that's what I was hinting at.  He doesn't have to start, but he could get a lot of meaningful minutes on our squad if he was up for the role.

[Spud2nique]

11 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Cam has too much talent to not figure it out eventually.

Not with that attitude. Can’t walk around thinking you should be given minutes… earn them.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

Hunter can't play PF. I've never seen a guy who could rebound less than Hunter. Even Trae averages more boards than Hunter. We would get destroyed on the glass if Hunter played PF. 

"Dayum, why are my ears ringing rn?" - A. Horford

(Side note: Did y'all remove the Horford head?)

[Spud2nique]

49 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Nope. Not a starter. He’s a 6th man at best.

Does anyone here think Huerter is a starter btw? Campster deflected again.  

[Wretch]

5 hours ago, thecampster said:

One last set of thoughts before I put in some actual work this morning.

 

The Cam situation last year had some long term effects on the locker room as did the end of the bench turnover. Although the team played better after he was gone, there was some competition for leadership.  The loss of Rondo, Solo, others left the team without internal leadership and some personalities emerged to challenge Trae, Hunter, Bogi. Part of what the team is going to address in the offseason is to get back a harmonious locker room. They aren't knifing each other, don't read too much into this but the Cam situation and Solo going down had some people try to step in to fill the void who had opinions that weren't in unison with what the team was trying to accomplish. You saw some people's playing time come to a halt, seats on the bench change. A lot of the youthful comradery of rookie contracts ended and people started challenging each other and the coaching staff in practice. People testing their alpha voice in an unwilling room.

Nate didn't lose the locker room and he navigated what was a natural maturation process of a team fairly well but a lot of these guys aren't going out bowling together on days off.  They aren't close. There are factions (for lack of a better word) and part of the move to shake up the roster is going to be trying to create a better cohesion.  With each of our previous rookie classes, new bodies were welcomed with open arms. This year's squad was put on blast early they would have to earn floor minutes. They weren't immediately brought into the fold with the vets.  Some vets were told "this is your role" and were discontent as they felt they could do more.  No one was happy with the covid restrictions, testing (there is an underlying story there about privacy, feeling watched league wide).  The whole social dynamic was constantly just off.

Again, this isn't/wasn't a violent or angry situation but there was a missing brotherhood feeling. There was more of a "I need to get mine" mentality.  Team execs are looking to add by subtraction by getting players more concerned with winning than with their personal brand/next contract/personal ego.  Every pack has Alphas, Betas and Thetas.  We have a lot of Betas....too many....too many wannabe heir apparent to the alpha crown.  Not enough buy in.

Thanks for this Camp.  I had my suspicious about the team chemistry.  Not necessarily negative chemistry, it just...not the right chemistry.  Aside from win/loss indicators...the parts and personalities didn't seem fully cohesive.  Not like we were in the playoffs last season.  It was a whole other vibe.

That last part about too many betas got my antennas up.  I've been harping on toughness as a must-get and it goes hand-in-hand.  This team needs a cohesive dynamic duo surrounded by tough-minded vets and some capable goons.  The framework for a great team is here.  We're missing one big piece and a lot of supporting pieces that fit better than what we have.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 5/16/2022 at 8:13 AM, Peoriabird said:

So if the coach of the year sees nothing in his own player, we should?  just asking

Because most guys who win Coach of the year get fired 3 years later.

[thecampster]

15 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Thanks for this Camp.  I had my suspicious about the team chemistry.  Not necessarily negative chemistry, it just...not the right chemistry.  Aside from win/loss indicators...the parts and personalities didn't seem fully cohesive.  Not like we were in the playoffs last season.  It was a whole other vibe.

That last part about too many betas got my antennas up.  I've been harping on toughness as a must-get and it goes hand-in-hand.  This team needs a cohesive dynamic duo surrounded by tough-minded vets and some capable goons.  The framework for a great team is here.  We're missing one big piece and a lot of supporting pieces that fit better than what we have.

I keep running back to Portis and thinking about that neck grab by Butler game 1 vs Trae.  If Bobby Portis is on the floor for the Hawks and Jimmy Butler grabbed Trae by the neck, Butler is getting blindsided by 3 wheel barrels full of crazy. If Steven Adams is at center, he might have been ejected 4 times in this series fighting back.  I can go back through every finals winner the last 20 years and there's a bit of goon and crazy on every squad and there's a reason for that.  I'm not talking Dellavedova or Grayson Allen dirty play, but a bit of Ivan Johnson level instability making everyone wonder if taking that cheap shot is a good idea.

[thecampster]

33 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Does anyone here think Huerter is a starter btw? Campster deflected again.  

I do...but not every starter scores 30.  Do I think he's a star?  Not even close.  But he's an NBA starter. You can't roll out nothing but all-stars. The NBA isn't designed that way. 

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Trae / Delon  - I'm good here

Bogi / Kev / Delon - Need new a starting 2

Hunter / Kev - we need a backup vet SF who is physical

JC / Gallo / JJ - assume Gallo is gone.  I hope JJ pans out but we may need a vet back up here

Capela / OO - I'm good here

 

New starting 2.   Vet wing for the bench and a vet big.   

Given 25 minutes a game, JJ is going to give you 15/6 rolling out of bed.  What concerns me is how young he looks, especially on D.  But I don't think we've seen an NBA frame this good in a Hawk's jersey in a long time. Its the best frame on the team, he just needs to grow into it.

[kg01]

24 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Thanks for this Camp.  I had my suspicious about the team chemistry.  Not necessarily negative chemistry, it just...not the right chemistry.  Aside from win/loss indicators...the parts and personalities didn't seem fully cohesive.  Not like we were in the playoffs last season.  It was a whole other vibe.

That last part about too many betas got my antennas up.  I've been harping on toughness as a must-get and it goes hand-in-hand.  This team needs a cohesive dynamic duo surrounded by tough-minded vets and some capable goons.  The framework for a great team is here.  We're missing one big piece and a lot of supporting pieces that fit better than what we have.

I gotta say, the acknowledged rumors that Collins and Trae aren't exactly bossom buddies has troubled me.  Like, y'all are Starsky & Hutch of this whole thang and y'all aren't 'friendly'?

Like it or not, that sets a tone and not a good one.  It's why I've become resigned to the idea of Collins being traded for the sake of all parties.  I'll weep openly when it happens but, after I clean myself up, I'll know it's for the best.

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I keep running back to Portis and thinking about that neck grab by Butler game 1 vs Trae.  If Bobby Portis is on the floor for the Hawks and Jimmy Butler grabbed Trae by the neck, Butler is getting blindsided by 3 wheel barrels full of crazy.

'Dayum, now my ears are ringing." - kg

Kidding but I agree with the sentiment of this post.

[thecampster]

Here, let me show you 2 images.  

1st image is Josh Childress - #6 overall in 2004

 

Second is Jalen Johnson's rookie photo

 

Knowing nothing other than both players were drafted at a similar position, height and weight.  Look at their shoulders, neck, arms.  Who would you say was a better draft selection.

 

People should go back to that 2004 draft and wonder what the hell were we thinking.  Taken after Childress but before Josh Smith  - Luol Deng, Iggy, Biedrins, Humphries, Al Jefferson.

[Gray Mule]

With all the talk of who fits where, who goes and who stays, no one ever mentions our two rookies from last year.  Sharife Cooper and Jalen Johnson are already ours.  Do we keep them?  Trade both?  Trade one, keep one?  What about this summer's draft?  Use it or trade it?  Or them, we do have more than one?

Where do all the pieces fit?  Do we really wish to tear it all down, flush the pot and start over?  Two drafts must be considered.  What do we do with them?

 

[Spud2nique]

22 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I do...but not every starter scores 30.  Do I think he's a star?  Not even close.  But he's an NBA starter. You can't roll out nothing but all-stars. The NBA isn't designed that way. 

Huh? Did I say make a team of all stars? No. I said HE, HUERTER, isn’t a starter in my view. Man, stop puttin damn words in people’s mouths. This is why.. ah fck it. Not worth it.

[Spud2nique]

24 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I do...but not every starter scores 30.  Do I think he's a star?  Not even close.  But he's an NBA starter. You can't roll out nothing but all-stars. The NBA isn't designed that way. 

You act like you not about agendas but keeping your boy Huerter and praising him, ya that’s not transparent at all. 

[Spud2nique]

13 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Here, let me show you 2 images.  

1st image is Josh Childress - #6 overall in 2004

 

Second is Jalen Johnson's rookie photo

 

Knowing nothing other than both players were drafted at a similar position, height and weight.  Look at their shoulders, neck, arms.  Who would you say was a better draft selection.

 

People should go back to that 2004 draft and wonder what the hell were we thinking.  Taken after Childress but before Josh Smith  - Luol Deng, Iggy, Biedrins, Humphries, Al Jefferson.

I said that then. I had Smoove and Iggy, I know we couldn’t have gotten both cuz both shot like trash but we should have, would been fun.ner.

I watched Childress at Stanford and had him slotted at 26 or 27, late first. Knight is a moron.

[bleachkit]

33 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Here, let me show you 2 images.  

1st image is Josh Childress - #6 overall in 2004

 

Second is Jalen Johnson's rookie photo

 

Knowing nothing other than both players were drafted at a similar position, height and weight.  Look at their shoulders, neck, arms.  Who would you say was a better draft selection.

 

People should go back to that 2004 draft and wonder what the hell were we thinking.  Taken after Childress but before Josh Smith  - Luol Deng, Iggy, Biedrins, Humphries, Al Jefferson.

Drafting by body types is not smart scouting. Some of biggest draft misses are teams that passed on someone because they didn't look the part.

[Wretch]

45 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Here, let me show you 2 images.  

1st image is Josh Childress - #6 overall in 2004

 

Second is Jalen Johnson's rookie photo

 

Knowing nothing other than both players were drafted at a similar position, height and weight.  Look at their shoulders, neck, arms.  Who would you say was a better draft selection.

 

People should go back to that 2004 draft and wonder what the hell were we thinking.  Taken after Childress but before Josh Smith  - Luol Deng, Iggy, Biedrins, Humphries, Al Jefferson.

Deng was my guy in 2004.  I remember being really pissed because I felt like we could have gotten that pick in a trade. If I remember correctly Phoenix(?) gave up that pick for peanuts.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

I keep running back to Portis and thinking about that neck grab by Butler game 1 vs Trae.  If Bobby Portis is on the floor for the Hawks and Jimmy Butler grabbed Trae by the neck, Butler is getting blindsided by 3 wheel barrels full of crazy. If Steven Adams is at center, he might have been ejected 4 times in this series fighting back.  I can go back through every finals winner the last 20 years and there's a bit of goon and crazy on every squad and there's a reason for that.  I'm not talking Dellavedova or Grayson Allen dirty play, but a bit of Ivan Johnson level instability making everyone wonder if taking that cheap shot is a good idea.

 

 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

On 5/15/2022 at 12:42 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

After 2 season of injuries to Hawks players....I'm leery of siging and/or trading for guys with their own injury histories. 

Lavine, Lonzo Ball, Dipo

 

Pass, pass, pass

 

@Diesel