The Trae Hate is Real....

[Diesel]

I thought Squawkers were different.  BUt many of you are not. When talking about Trae... its evident that many of you see his height first and not his ability. 

This is the same issue that Trae has with his Haters around the league.  This is Skip calling him mice Trae and using itty bitty whenever he mentions Trae...

For Me, Trae's size is not a handicap.  I think his ability supersedes his Size.   I put him in the same breath as Nash, Kidd, CP3.. except, he just may be better.

When I see Squawkers comparing Trae to Zach Wilson and Drew Breeze.. I realize that all yall see is size. 

When I see Squawker focus only on hiding Trae and trading out a good Center for a Tall center.. all yall see is size. 

When I see Squawkers focused on matching Trae in the backcourt with a taller guy and not with a able guy.. all yall see is size. 

Focusing primarily on Trae's size and not his ability, is Trae hate.  It's the same hate that Trae has had to fight all his life. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Who is only focusing on Trae's height?  

 

The Focus is what needs to happen around Trae on BOTH side of the ball.

[macdaddy]

I've always thought there was too much focus on his size in general because if you're scoring and assisting who cares (ignoring d for a sec).

But watching the playoffs  you have to say that because of his size Trae expends a ton of energy scoring like he does.   Tatum, Luka and the bigger guards get much easier buckets which helps out a lot over the course of a game/series so I've come around a little to the idea that it's harder for Trae to be an elite scorer than some others. 

But all that means is we got to get another attacker on offense.   We rely too much on Trae creating for everyone including himself. 

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Who is only primarily focusing on Trae's height?  

 

 

The Focus is what needs to happen around Trae on BOTH side of the ball.

The problem with that is that we would focus so hard on being bigger that we would go out and get a 40 Million dollar Tall player who is a hazard on offense and on defense has glaring weaknesses. 

We focus so hard on Trae's size that we will go out and try to match him with a bigger SG and not with the best shooting guard possible.

Mark my words....

It's this heightcentric stupidity that will lead us to go after a player like Dillon Brooks and watch us become a middling team.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The problem with that is that we would focus so hard on being bigger that we would go out and get a 40 Million dollar Tall player who is a hazard on offense and on defense has glaring weaknesses. 

We focus so hard on Trae's size that we will go out and try to match him with a bigger SG and not with the best shooting guard possible.

Mark my words....

It's this heightcentric stupidity that will lead us to go after a player like Dillon Brooks and watch us become a middling team.

 

Again, who is primarily focused on his height.

For me, it's less about his size and more about his struggles on defense and our general perimeter team defense.  Hawks are in need of bulldogs on defense.

Nate opted too many times to play small in general.

We didn't rebound the ball well.

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I've always thought there was too much focus on his size in general because if you're scoring and assisting who cares (ignoring d for a sec).

But watching the playoffs  you have to say that because of his size Trae expends a ton of energy scoring like he does.   Tatum, Luka and the bigger guards get much easier buckets which helps out a lot over the course of a game/series so I've come around a little to the idea that it's harder for Trae to be an elite scorer than some others. 

But all that means is we got to get another attacker on offense.   We rely too much on Trae creating for everyone including himself. 

Watching the playoffs....  Trae when he has no other offensive help is easily targetted by the defense. 

In essence, what Miami did was say..  "Atlanta has no other REAL Offensive threats, let's run everybody at Trae and see them buckle"...

And you know what.. they were right.  And you know what else...  It had nothing to do with height.   In fact, if they could have done the same thing to Luka, they would have gotten the same results. 

But because our fanbase is so heightcentric,  we felt that it's because Trae is so small??  Was Trae Small last year?  Did it take 4 years for somebody to try this form of defense on Trae?  Right now, we're missing the whole story..  Bogi didn't do jack..  Clint and JC were gone..   Who could Trae turn to?  Hunter... coming down the end of the series, Hunter started putting it together.   He realized that he could benefit from the defenses complete focus on Trae... but the original statement that Miami made is true.

So what is our thought?

"We need to get bigger.. so that this can't happen!"

Really???  Bigger is going to fix our problems??

"We need to get more defensive.. so that this can't happen!"

Are you kidding?  Defense wins championships is a lie.  Outscoring your opponents wins championships.  Didn't we have Snell, Solo, Bruno, and a whole host of defensive guys?  We even got Delon (who I would like back)... None of those were an answer and honestly, I don't think I have seen many players that play defense better than Delon.

How about we get more offensive weapons so that they can't isolate Trae?

You only need good defense in spurts.  You need to be able to make stops.  We can get personnel for that.. however, if a team can stop your scoring, you're lost already.

[Peoriabird]

Y'all know I have never mentioned his size.  My focus has always been his turnovers especially the game changing live ball turnovers which killed the Hawks in the playoffs this year.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Y'all know I have never mentioned his size.  My focus has always been his turnovers especially the game changing live ball turnovers which killed the Hawks in the playoffs this year.

That's just it - nobody is making Trae's height the focus on why he struggles.  It's always been what is around him to make his life easier and get him help on both sides of the ball.  

[JayBirdHawk]

Stop trying to make Trae's height a 'Squawk Thing' when it has NEVER been.

[Peoriabird]

On 5/12/2022 at 5:23 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

That's just it - nobody is making Trae's height the focus on why he struggles.  It's always been what is around him to make his life easier and get him help on both sides of the ball.  

I don't know Bird...Bogi Kept us that game when Trae had what 11 turnovers???  Hunter Kept us in the game when Trae had another 7 turnovers?  No one is making Trae turn the ball over the way he does except Trae's bad decisions.  He needs to get better at that

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Again, who is primarily focused on his height.

For me, it's less about his size and more about his struggles on defense and our general perimeter team defense.  Hawks are in need of bulldogs on defense.

What was Delon?

Isn't Delon a Bulldog on defense?  Isn't he supposed to be a guy who we can pair with Trae and he will cover the defensive weak spots? 

What was Snell?

Isn't Snell a Bulldog on defense?  Isn't he supposed to be a guy who we can pair with Trae and he will cover the defensive weak spots?

Do we learn anything?

Based on 82games.com.. this was by far our best 5 man unit last year:

Young-Huerter-Bogdanovic-Collins-Capela

161.5

1.31

1.02

+101

11

2

84.6

That's Trae with 2 bad defensive players... and Collins and Cap.

By far.. this was our best 5 man unit...

Our second best.. was this:

L.Williams-Wright-Bogdanovic-Gallinari-Okongwu

115.4

1.23

1.01

+49

9

4

69.2

This is our true Second unit...  Go back.. peep the threads.. I told you that our second unit many times were better than our first unit.   here's the numbers that prove it.   Yes.. it's defense.. but look..  NO TRAE.  But what do you have... Balance.  Gallo, Bogi, and Williams suck on Defense... but they are great on offense.  Wright and OO anchors the defense.

Yeah.. we can put defense around Trae and it look like this:

Young-Wright-Bogdanovic-Hunter-Okongwu

40.1

1.27

0.93

+25

8

4

66.6

 

That's with three of our best defensive players playing and Trae... But it's not better than our starting team that features Cap, JC, Hunter, and Kev...

Bottomline...

You improve the offense around Trae, you get better outcomes than if you improve the defense around Trae..  We have been trying to improve the defense around Trae... however, winning didn't start until we got Bogi and Gallo.   And the truth is that you don't need to go all out to surround Trae with defenders, just have some good defensive players on the team.. because what you really need is one unit that can get a stop. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Y'all know I have never mentioned his size.  My focus has always been his turnovers especially the game changing live ball turnovers which killed the Hawks in the playoffs this year.

There may be some good in taking the ball out of his hands some. 

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Stop trying to make Trae's height a 'Squawk Thing' when it has NEVER been.

Zach Wilson...  Drew Breeze...  Rudy Gobert...

 

[Peoriabird]

18 minutes ago, Diesel said:

There may be some good in taking the ball out of his hands some. 

The coaching staff tried that already in the playoffs especially in game 5 when Hunter handled the ball on most offensive sets and he still had 7 turnovers.

[NBASupes]

Hello Atlanta

Your ATL Dancers have a cheer for you. 

Give me an 1, you got your 1, you got your 1

Give me an star, you got your star, you got your star

Give me an thread, you got your thread, you got your thread

Boo yah! Boo yah! 

Boo yah! Boo yah! 

Boo yah! Boo yah! 

Hush, OP your thread really sucks!

Edited May 12, 2022 by NBASupes

[Diesel]

18 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The coaching staff tried that already in the playoffs especially in game 5 when Hunter handled the ball on most offensive sets and he still had 7 turnovers.

PB.. I don't think you can use this playoffs for anything except noting what can happen when you are missing your starting PF and C.  And your best SG is gimpy...

 

It's like test driving a broken Tesla and then writing a report on Electric cars. 

Meaningless.

[Diesel]

21 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Hello Atlanta

Your ATL Dancers have a cheer for you. 

Give me an 1, you got your 1, you got your 1

Give me an star, you got your star, you got your star

Give me an thread, you got your thread, you got your thread

Boo yah! Boo yah! 

Boo yah! Boo yah! 

Boo yah! Boo yah! 

Hush, OP your thread really sucks!

You should have said Doug Flutie...  Go with your heart.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

This is a thread fail of epic proportions.

[Packfill]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

I thought Squawkers were different.  BUt many of you are not. When talking about Trae... its evident that many of you see his height first and not his ability. 

This is the same issue that Trae has with his Haters around the league.  This is Skip calling him mice Trae and using itty bitty whenever he mentions Trae...

For Me, Trae's size is not a handicap.  I think his ability supersedes his Size.   I put him in the same breath as Nash, Kidd, CP3.. except, he just may be better.

When I see Squawkers comparing Trae to Zach Wilson and Drew Breeze.. I realize that all yall see is size. 

When I see Squawker focus only on hiding Trae and trading out a good Center for a Tall center.. all yall see is size. 

When I see Squawkers focused on matching Trae in the backcourt with a taller guy and not with a able guy.. all yall see is size. 

Focusing primarily on Trae's size and not his ability, is Trae hate.  It's the same hate that Trae has had to fight all his life. 

 

Trae is a fantastic offensive player but so far has not shown the ability to be a consistently average defender.  Part of the issue may be effort, which would relate to the big lift he has to do on the offensive end - thereby creating a need for him to downshift the effort on the other side of the court.  Size is a factor though, and Trae's size is something the team should consider when looking to build a roster around him.  For example, bringing in another 6 ft guard to play alongside Trae may work, but it would not be ideal - for many reasons, size and defensive scheming among them.  

And by the way, I don't see how being compared to Drew Brees is a bad thing - Brees is a HOFer and super bowl champion.

[AHF]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

Watching the playoffs....  Trae when he has no other offensive help is easily targetted by the defense. 

In essence, what Miami did was say..  "Atlanta has no other REAL Offensive threats, let's run everybody at Trae and see them buckle"...

And you know what.. they were right.  And you know what else...  It had nothing to do with height.   In fact, if they could have done the same thing to Luka, they would have gotten the same results. 

But because our fanbase is so heightcentric,  we felt that it's because Trae is so small??  Was Trae Small last year?  Did it take 4 years for somebody to try this form of defense on Trae?  Right now, we're missing the whole story..  Bogi didn't do jack..  Clint and JC were gone..   Who could Trae turn to?  Hunter... coming down the end of the series, Hunter started putting it together.   He realized that he could benefit from the defenses complete focus on Trae... but the original statement that Miami made is true.

So what is our thought?

"We need to get bigger.. so that this can't happen!"

Really???  Bigger is going to fix our problems??

"We need to get more defensive.. so that this can't happen!"

Are you kidding?  Defense wins championships is a lie.  Outscoring your opponents wins championships.  Didn't we have Snell, Solo, Bruno, and a whole host of defensive guys?  We even got Delon (who I would like back)... None of those were an answer and honestly, I don't think I have seen many players that play defense better than Delon.

How about we get more offensive weapons so that they can't isolate Trae?

You only need good defense in spurts.  You need to be able to make stops.  We can get personnel for that.. however, if a team can stop your scoring, you're lost already.

Delon is a plus defender and made a huge positive impact on the team in both the playoffs and the regular season.

Snell, Solo and Bruno were not close to plus defenders.  The debate I had with people around Snell was whether he was one of the worst defenders in the entire league like his DRTG number would suggest or if he was only an “eh” defender.  Solo knew where to be on the floor which was great but that is the most impactful part of his D.  Bruno was too raw to succeed on either end while he was with us.  
 

So from those 4 people you mention, I would draw the conclusion that having bad to eh defenders around Trae put us in a bad position whereas there is a good case from Delon’s numbers that he made large difference so an impactful defender with Trae leads to good results.  (The team was best pairing with Trae with Delon this season over all our other guards and wings despite their better offense.)  The same could be said for the team results when Trae got paired with CC.  Team was dramatically better with CC than non-impact defenders.

This is simply to say that I think the numbers say we should be concerned about the defenders on the floor with Trae and that anyone concerned with having a defense that fits around him isn’t necessarily obsessed with his height.

(Also would say the only time the board really focused on his height was before we drafted him and he was being compared against Luka, JJJ, and other potential draft prospects.)

[RandomFan]