The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[LucastheThird]

38 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

You don't understand BYC and the premise behind it. The third team takes the difference in player comp due to BYC. That is the whole reasoning behind it to prevent teams from loop-holing the cap. 

Since Phoenix sends only $19m out they can only take $19m back but we are taking in 31m so we have to send out 31m. The 3rd team takes the $12m. We are not increasing our salaries!

We send out 31m in salaries and take-in 31m in salaries, waive and stretch Gallo, we will be NO-where near the tax apron (6 million OVER the tax line). You REALLY think Ressler is paying tax on 6m in salaries without consolidating our existing roster?

Just because the apron is a thing doesn't mean the Hawks have ever even approached it. Besides hard capping in 2 years with Ayton, Trae and maybe SGA or Donovan is better than playing the I don't want to pay tax line we've been doing.

Don't be afraid to tiptoe the hard cap or tax or else you may as well be OKC eternally selling players for future picks.

Dude......he's literally the most knowledgeable poster on this board when it comes to the cap and cap implications. And he's a lawyer (if I'm remembering right) so he knows full well what he is reading. 

 

He routinely gives text form seminars on the cap every year. 

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

Dude......he's literally the most knowledgeable poster on this board when it comes to the cap and cap implications. And he's a lawyer (if I'm remembering right) so he knows full well what he is reading. 

 

He routinely gives text form seminars on the cap every year. 

Not a lawyer, that's @AHF and a few others. I'm a 25 year IT pro working in Cyber Security .

Edited June 19, 2022 by thecampster

[Diesel]

9 hours ago, terrell said:

Doubt it..

Sometimes, I wonder why we listen to you?  You said "Doubt it".   You know that they coached together?  Prolly not.  You know that Atkinson met with Jordan 2 weeks ago?  Prolly not.  If Atkinson had some doubts coming out of that meeting... who do you think he'd talk to...??

Oh yeah.. you doubt it.

Once again, the uninformed opinion of Terrell...

UOT...

[RandomFan]

57 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

You don't understand BYC and the premise behind it.

I legit laughed out loud. 

22 minutes ago, thecampster said:

You must be new.

Bruh, seriously...

It's like a 6th grader first learning about Algebra then going to a college advanced calculus class telling them what they don't understand. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by RandomFan

[Diesel]

More Bad News out of Charlotte.

Going into the Atkinson Hire... They were separated into two camps... 

1st..   For Atkinson.

2nd..  For D'Antoni.

They probably went with Atkinson because he's younger..hungrier.  However, I don't know whose camp Jordan was in...  Supposedly, Jordan met with Atkinson to seal the deal  2 weeks ago.  I believe that Shams may have thought since that meeting went down that Jordan got the deal sealed... but no contract was ever signed by Atkinson coming out of that meeting. 

I say bad news because if D'Antoni... was their second choice, he's probably their first choice now.  There goes my dream of him becoming our Offensive coordinator.. AND there goes the probability of D'Antoni in our Division with a Talented PG...  DAMN.

 

[RandomFan]

1 hour ago, RandomFan said:

To be fair, you grossly underestimate Ayton defensively in nearly every post.

 

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I watch him his games all of the time. I know what type of defender he is. His RAPTOR isn't lying. He's just good, not very good like Poeltl, not excellent like Clint and damn sure is not elite like Gobert. 

Ayton is probably one of the most overrated players I've seen by his fans. He's not a max cat like JC. I want him because we can spam his ass which is all Trae does with bigs anyway and when he can't, it looks like the Miami series. 

Ayton is a very good player but ya'll talk about him like it's close between him and Ayton when those two are massively different impact wise. 

Look at Gobert WAR compared to Ayton WAR. Shit, compare it to Capela WAR. 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Case in point. 

 

Also: Goberrated.

[sturt]

9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

There goes my dream of him becoming our Offensive coordinator.

Maybe it's just me... it often is... but it's difficult for me to envision McM and my fellow Marshall alum D'Antoni on the same bench.

[thecampster]

21 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

I legit laughed out loud. 

Bruh, seriously...

It's like a 6th grader first learning about Algebra then going to a college advanced calculus class telling them what they don't understand. 

His initial thought here of "it can be done" isn't wrong. But he's missing the point of my initial post.  Of all 3 options (nothing, Ayton, Gobert), Ayton is the most constricting because it institutes a ceiling just above our current salary level. I give him more props than all of RealGM, most congressmen, or any woman who thought Bill Clinton really wanted to discuss her career.

 

Here's the rub:  Minimum NBA salary 0 years experience 

Experience	2021/22	2022/23	2023/24	2024/25
0	$925,258	$1,563,518	$1,836,096	$1,988,598
1	$1,489,065	$1,752,638	$1,902,137	$2,057,646
2	$1,669,178	$1,815,677	$1,968,182	$2,230,253
3	$1,729,217	$1,878,720	$2,133,285	$2,402,862
4	$1,789,256	$2,036,318	$2,298,390	$2,575,475
5	$1,939,350	$2,193,920	$2,463,498	$2,748,090
6	$2,089,448	$2,351,521	$2,628,607	$2,761,767
7	$2,239,544	$2,509,123	$2,641,690	$3,037,946
8	$2,389,641	$2,521,613	$2,905,862	$3,037,946
9	$2,401,537	$2,773,776	$2,905,862	$3,037,946
10+	$2,641,691	$2,773,776	$2,905,862	$3,037,946

 

So with somewhere in the neighborhood of a max $19 million in salary and 8 salaries available, that's $2.375 million per player.  So the current team minus Wright, Gallo, Knox, Mays, TLC, Cooper, Lou, etc.... replaced with 8 minimum salary level vets that you can convince to come.

 

Or Gobert and there's no cap on what you can add in salary except that you can use your contracts in Dec/Jan on your roster to cobble together and pick up higher priced players.  Its about flexibility and it only gets worse as the raises kick in for Collins, Trae, Huerter, Hunter.

 

And that's the big one. Your ability to resign Hunter who you will have just hung your team on, goes to a capped rate. So even though you hold his rights, if someone offers him more than you can in RFA, you can't even match because you're locked at the apron.

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by thecampster

[warcore]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

He's not a max cat like JC.

 

 

1 hour ago, theheroatl said:

You don't understand BYC and the premise behind it.

 

[marco102]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Hawks have $136.1 in guaranteed contracts including Gallo's $5 million.

$136.1 -$18 (Capela) + $30 (Ayton) = $148 million - right at the Luxury Tax line which leaves very little wiggle room for completion the rest of the roster but in principal the deal can work without sending out immediate additional salary. Because it's a SnT and as Campster pointed out the max total payroll the Hawks can have is hard capped at $154 million after a SnT.

I thought the hard cap is only in the year of the trade.

@thecampster seemed to imply it hard caps you after the year of the trade.  I haven't read up on that, but wanted to make sure that is accurate.

[thecampster]

24 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I thought the hard cap is only in the year of the trade.

@thecampster seemed to imply it hard caps you after the year of the trade.  I haven't read up on that, but wanted to make sure that is accurate.

I worded that very poorly. I worded the result as opposed to the rule.  Lets start with the rule.

 

"A Veteran Free Agent and his Prior Team may enter into a Player Contract pursuant to an agreement between the Prior Team and another Team concerning the signing and subsequent trade of such Contract, but only if (i) the Veteran Free Agent finished the prior Season on his Prior Team’s roster, (ii) the Contract is for at least three (3) Seasons (excluding any Option Year) but no more than four (4) Seasons in length, (iii) the Contract is not signed pursuant to the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Salary Exception or the Taxpayer Mid-Level Salary Exception, (iv) the first Season of the Contract is fully protected for lack of skill, (v) the Contract is entered into prior to the first day of the Regular Season, (vi) with respect to any 5th Year Eligible Player (as defined in Article II, Section 7) who met one of the 5th Year 30% Max Criteria (as defined in Article II, Section 7), the Contract may not provide the player with Salary (plus Unlikely Bonuses) in excess of twenty-five percent (25%) of the Salary Cap (as calculated pursuant to Article II, Section 7) in effect at the time the Contract is signed, and (vii) the acquiring Team has Room for the player’s Salary plus any Unlikely Bonuses provided for in the first Season of the Contract. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in the preceding sentence, a Team shall not be permitted to acquire a player pursuant to a Contract entered into in accordance with this Section 8(e)(1) if the Team’s Team Salary (as calculated pursuant to Section 6(m)(3) above) following the proposed transaction would exceed the Tax Level for such Salary Cap Year plus the Tax Apron Amount, and if a Team acquires a player pursuant to this Section 8(e)(1), then the Team’s Team Salary at all times thereafter during the Salary Cap Year may not exceed the Tax Level for such Salary Cap Year plus the Tax Apron Amount."

[JayBirdHawk]

27 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I thought the hard cap is only in the year of the trade.

@thecampster seemed to imply it hard caps you after the year of the trade.  I haven't read up on that, but wanted to make sure that is accurate.

Quick search:

However, there are certain scenarios in which a team can be hard-capped. Those scenarios are as follows:

1. The team uses its bi-annual exception to sign a player.
2. The team uses more than the taxpayer portion of the mid-level exception to sign a player (or multiple players).
   • Note: In 2019/20, the taxpayer MLE was worth $5,718,000, compared to $9,258,000 for the full non-taxpayer MLE.
3. The team acquires a player via sign-and-trade.

 

A team making any of those three roster moves must ensure that its team salary is below the “tax apron” when it finalizes the transaction and stays below the apron for the rest of the league year. 

[thecampster]

Part 2:  Given our salaries, that the apron grows slower than the cap and that all of our current player salaries (save Bogi) have raises built in that are growing faster than the cap, we end up in a perennially higher than the Apron position.  Meaning no use of exceptions. Our only way to improve/get better players is through consolidation trades, adding more minimum players.

If we go another route this year, we can add that salary this year while we have other salary to add (the use of our our free agents in sign n trade).

 

Above the apron removes the ability to use exceptions....this year we have assets to cobble together for others to go higher....Ayton doesn't give us this flexibility. The end result is not only this year but effectively capping us going forward to only veteran mins.

Edited June 19, 2022 by thecampster

[terrell]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Sometimes, I wonder why we listen to you?  You said "Doubt it".   You know that they coached together?  Prolly not.  You know that Atkinson met with Jordan 2 weeks ago?  Prolly not.  If Atkinson had some doubts coming out of that meeting... who do you think he'd talk to...??

Oh yeah.. you doubt it.

Once again, the uninformed opinion of Terrell...

UOT...

Were you in the meeting? lmao.. And why do you care so much about this? He took the job and then changed his mind for whatever reason....... Go start another thread about a random thought or something .. smh

Edited June 19, 2022 by terrell

[kg01]

3 hours ago, warcore said:

 

 

I must admit, the contrarian in me wants to pile on ol' campst.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, terrell said:

Were you in the meeting? lmao.. And why do you care so much about this? He took the job and then changed his mind for whatever reason....... Go start another thread about a random thought or something .. smh

I would but I'm too busy reading all of the UOT on the Squawk...

[RandomFan]

Have we already discussed this news around here today and I just missed it? From reddit: 

Offszn development: Capela's "likely incentives" have been moved to "unlikely incentives". This has significant cap implications as Capela's salary (now acting as $18.2m not $19.7) lies directly under the MAXIMUM amount Suns can take back in an Ayton S&T (~$19.2m) due to BYC rules

[hylndr11]

33 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I would but I'm too busy reading all of the UOT on the Squawk...

Unwarranted and Off Topic?

[sturt]

Can confirm that spotrac has those as unlikely incentives now.

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

Have we already discussed this news around here today and I just missed it? From reddit: 

Offszn development: Capela's "likely incentives" have been moved to "unlikely incentives". This has significant cap implications as Capela's salary (now acting as $18.2m not $19.7) lies directly under the MAXIMUM amount Suns can take back in an Ayton S&T (~$19.2m) due to BYC rules

I think he only met 1 incentive for 500K of his contract this past season 30% rebound rate.