The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[timebomb]

7 minutes ago, TRW said:

I like Ben Simmons but the back concerns, the almost 2 year layoff, and his mental is really a problem. We don't need our Atlanta Hawks to become the LeBron/Clutch Hawks. We don't want them trying to control us like they control the Lakers. If we get Simmons then getting Murray wasn't necessary. Although Simmons playing Center is intriguing, it's not worth the gamble. We have to find another shooter preferably at Power Forward if we keep John or two if John is traded.

If we keep JC and the team as is. Then I’d gamble on TJ Warren with our MLE and hope he’s healthy and can get back to 2019 Warren where he was getting 19 ppg and hitting 40% from deep. He’d replace what we lost in Gallo and play better D

[TheNorthCydeRises]

41 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

Part of me believes bringing in Simmons would completely blow up in our faces. It’s a very good chance it would.  
 

However, I also don’t really care. I would love to see it. It would be such a unique construction, unlike any other I can think of. I want to see what happens. The Hawks would have an opportunity to create a new paradigm, and not just copy what’s already been done before. 
 

If successful, it would be close to impossible for any other team to duplicate any time soon. If it fails? We’ll, honestly, it’s not my money. And it’s not like they couldn’t tear it down and rebuild again. We’ve been through it a million times before and it will happen again. 
 

No more conservative pussyfooting around wasting time to find out we can’t get over the hump until it’s too late. I want to try catching lightning in a bottle.

 

Same here.

I saw what Cleveland tried, and people thought they were crazy.  But not only did their "Triple Towers" lineup work, they got as high as 4th in the East, before being killed with injuries.

Here's what I know. 

I know that Capela can't get much better as a player, because he does not have the offensive skillset to improve on that end of the floor.  I also know that Bogi can be a tremendous shooter at times, but will never have the athleticism to be able to guard the better wings in this league, which puts him at a disadvantage.   These two guys are as good as they're going to be in their NBA careers.

So if we don't want to add Simmons . . cool . . just understand that neither Capela nor Bogi are going to become better players.  At best, they'll give you their usual production.  This means that other people on the team must get better.

[Bigjmw]

2 hours ago, RandomFan said:

It would be JC plus either of Capela or Bogi for Simmons and cap filler. I'm good with either player going out. We've long needed to consolidate talent on this roster, and that's what this is. 

Not directed at you bird, but in reading the board today people seem to forget how good Simmons is. True he's not baggage free, but even considering that he's STILL a top 20-30 player. 

Ben is a DPOY quality defender who is as equally adept at on-ball and off-ball D, plus switching. Elite handles, passing, screen setting, rolling to the rim and finishing there. And still only 26 years old. Same age as Murray, two years older than Trae. 

He's elite at everything, except sucking at jumpshooting. But the shooting is why he's only top 20-30 instead of being a top 5 player.

Trae wants Simmons here. Do we think we know better than Trae what a good player looks like? Do we think we know better than Trae about the roster fit or lineup fit with Ben?

C'mon man!

Coudnt have said it better myself. Everything he does on the court with the exception of shooting is elite level. What can Capella do that he can't? Rebound? Simmons could easily avg 10+ rebounds in his slot, and be a better finisher near the basket. He can take over in transition and allow our shooters to get in position

[Peoriabird]

39 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

But as you said, the only thing this guy isn't elite at, is shooting the basketball. 

OMG...Simmons is not an elite rebounder or shot blocker. Not even an elite playmaker. Stop making him into something he is not.

[RandomFan]

 

[shakes]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

OMG...Simmons is not an elite rebounder or shot blocker. Not even an elite playmaker. Stop making him into something he is not.

Simmons is not an elite playmaker?  

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, shakes said:

Simmons is not an elite playmaker?  

When has he been top ten in assist per game ever?

[RedDawg#8]

People look at Simmons and say he can’t shoot. That’s not just it though.

Simmons not only can’t shoot, but he wont shoot. That’s what is scary. And not like CC or OO who don’t shoot because they play to their strengths for the better of the team. Simmons won’t shoot even when it hurts the team.

Simmons already lacked a jumper, ok fine. He sucks at the FT line, ok cool, so does Capela. The difference is, Capela will still put the ball up. Simmons has gotten so shook that he has started to fear contact that may send him to the FT line. Dude shot 33% from the line against us. He did  not take a single shot in the 4th quarter of multiple games. That’s basically unplayable.

Capela sucks at the line but at least will stay around 50% or more even under pressure and intentionally fouled.

Simmons shrinks when his team needs him the most. That is not a winning player. Forget talent.

Capela went out and publicly told the Knicks we were about to send them on vacation. OO has stood toe to toe with Giannis and got up in KAT’s grill when he started jawing at him. Bullied them both. JC has some of the most energizing plays that gets the entire team hyped.

None of our guys will ever be confused as more talented than Ben, but they all are gamers who want to compete and don’t back down from challenges. 

Ben would suck that out of the locker room the moment he freezes up, we lose, and he starts pouting when asked about it after. He has a losers mentality, not a champions mindset.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

45 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You always say garbage when it comes to Trae. Dude is always getting attacked on D. 

 

Well prove it then.

I already have my rebuttal ready . . . with proof.

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

49 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

And unless Donovan desperately wants to win now, I'm sure he doesn't mind that one bit.

It gives him the chance to do anything he wants on offense, without shouldering the blame for the team losing.

If they are tanking, Ainge could basically tell Mitchell to ball out, but keep the game just out of reach so that they'll lose a lot more than they win.  That's how you effectively tank, without having the fan base become extremely disgruntled.

Tanking teams should do all they can to win at home, but look horrible out on the road.  If you win at home, the fans will at least go home happy that night.  But be bad and do load management on the road.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

41 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You either are a Rim protector, a big body bruiser amd physical or a floor spreader.

OK . . now the 2nd part of my question.  Who would be the best centers that have these qualities?

[RedDawg#8]

Y’all remember how mad at Trae everyone got those handful of games it looked like he was protesting his critics by standing around not moving without the ball and not being engaged?

Y’all are going to turn on Simmons real quick, especially with him playing the 4 and Trae and Murray with the ball in the half court.

Simmons is good for transition offense. Otherwise he will be in the dunkers spot with his hands on his hips.

 

[GameTime]

[TheNorthCydeRises]

40 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

BEN SIMMONS IS NOT A CENTER!!!

Full stop.

 

So let's play a game. 

 

Would the 6-11 . . . 240 lb Ben Simmons be outclassed at Center vs these players?

• Robert Williams:  6-8 . . 237 lbs
• Al Horford:  6-9  . . . 240 lbs
• Draymond Green: 6-6 . .  230 lbs
• Kevon Looney:  6-9 . . . 222 lbs

If so . . . how and why?

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

44 minutes ago, TRW said:

I like Ben Simmons but the back concerns, the almost 2 year layoff, and his mental is really a problem. We don't need our Atlanta Hawks to become the LeBron/Clutch Hawks. We don't want them trying to control us like they control the Lakers. If we get Simmons then getting Murray wasn't necessary. Although Simmons playing Center is intriguing, it's not worth the gamble. We have to find another shooter preferably at Power Forward if we keep John or two if John is traded.

 

So in other words, we don't want to win a championship?  

Say what you want about Klutch Sports and Lebron.  The guy has 4 championships.  Whether we like how he did it or not, he still has 4 rings.  And between Lebron and Draymond ( both a part of Klutch Sports ), they have 8 of the last 9 championships.

 

And you guys talk about "gambles" like the Hawks have been a 55 win regular season team.  Let's be real about this  We played very well in the 2nd half of the 2021 and 2022 seasons.  And we had a tremendous playoff run in 2021.

That's it folks.

6 months of outstanding basketball in a 4 year stretch in the Trae Young era, with 2 of those years where we weren't even trying to win anything.  Injuries out the ying-yang.  Guys being inconsistent.  Guys not living up to their expected potential.  So what are we really gambling?

If Hunter and Bogi go down for 25+ games again, what are we really gambling?

If the Hawks decide that they're done, I'm cool with it.   But we can't act like this group, as is, is going to get us anywhere close to a legit championship run, unless some of the guys tha are currently on the team get significantly better and more consistent.

[thecampster]

To be clear, I no longer like the salary fit on Simmons.....BUT.... You have to think of the rotations.  At 6 minutes, Simmons takes a seat and someone subs in. At 9 minutes, Murray takes a seat and BB subs in.  At the start of the 2nd quarter, Trae subs out, Simmons subs back in. At the 9 minute mark, Murray subs back in. At the 6 minute mark, Trae subs back in and Bogi sits. To finish the 2nd at the 3 minute mark Bogi subs back in and Simmons sits. There is a 3 minute window where the only primary ball hander on the floor is Simmons but he has Bogi on the floor with him. 

6 minutes a game, you'd have Simmons + shooter/defenders. 42 minutes a game you'd have 2 to 3 of Simmons, Murray, Trae on the floor all at once. 3 players who've averaged at least 8 assists per game before.  The team would be a nightmare cover. Although Simmons doesn't "shoot", he cuts/attacks with the best of them. There is a reason he's averaged 15.9 ppg for his career.  Its not the worst idea. It also means if either Murray/Young go out for any significant amount of time, you have a built in PG for minutes. Don't crap on it until you fully understand it.

Edited July 3, 2022 by thecampster

[RedDawg#8]

10 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

So let's play a game. 

 

Would the 6-11 . . . 240 lb Ben Simmons be outclassed at Center vs these players?

• Robert Williams:  6-8 . . 237 lbs
• Al Horford:  6-9  . . . 240 lbs
• Draymond Green: 6-6 . .  230 lbs
• Kevon Looney:  6-9 . . . 222 lbs

If so . . . how and why?

 

 

Ben Simmons is the same height with and without shoes as John Collins. But for whatever reason the NBA rounds JC’s height down and Simmons height up.

Im not going against your center argument but I just want it to be clear, if Simmons is 6-11 then so is JC.

In reality they are both 6’8.25 barefoot and 6’9 +change in shoes. 

Simmons draft combine

https://www.nbadraft.net/2016-nba-draft-combine-measurements/

JC draft combine

https://www.nbadraft.net/2017-nba-draft-combine-measurements/

Official NBA measurements after they updated everyones height

https://crownhoops.com/2019/10/08/complete-list-of-nba-player-height-changes-and-updates/

Ben and JC are both officially listed as 6’9.
 

I don’t know how his 6-11 height keeps being floated around. He was never that tall.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

23 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Y’all remember how mad at Trae everyone got those handful of games it looked like he was protesting his critics by standing around not moving without the ball and not being engaged?

Y’all are going to turn on Simmons real quick, especially with him playing the 4 and Trae and Murray with the ball in the half court.

Simmons is good for transition offense. Otherwise he will be in the dunkers spot with his hands on his hips.

 

A coaching staff would be idiotic not to use some of his playmaking skills with the ball in his hands.

Once again, if a guy like Simmons has the ball, that means a shooter like Trae is off the ball.

So what are you going to do as a defender?  Are you going to let Simmons blow by his man and drive to the basket?  Or are you going to try to prevent that, but leave Trae wide open in the corner for an open 3?

With the way this offense completely bogged down vs Miami, having a 2nd and 3rd ball handler on this team that could score at the rim, would do wonders for this team.

[akay]

44 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

OMG...Simmons is not an elite rebounder or shot blocker. Not even an elite playmaker. Stop making him into something he is not.

In what world does grabbing 8 boards and 8 assists per game not make you an elite rebounder or playmaker? 

You wanna say he's a bad half court playmaker?

Fine, he's still elite in transition as a playmaker and finisher.

He's also elite on defense as evidenced by him being a dpoy candidate every year 

Please stop making him into something he's not 

[bleachkit]

24 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

So let's play a game. 

 

Would the 6-11 . . . 240 lb Ben Simmons be outclassed at Center vs these players?

• Robert Williams:  6-8 . . 237 lbs
• Al Horford:  6-9  . . . 240 lbs
• Draymond Green: 6-6 . .  230 lbs
• Kevon Looney:  6-9 . . . 222 lbs

If so . . . how and why?

 

 

You know he's not really 6'11" right? He's 6'9".