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The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)


NBASupes

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Nets in no rush to trade Kevin Durant

For the Nets, trading Kevin Durant correctly is a lot more important than doing it quickly. League personnel who spoke to The Post said Nets general manager Sean Marks — and by default team owner Joe Tsai as well — are adamant about getting back All-Star caliber talent in return for Durant. And with their disgruntled star having four years left on his contract, the Nets are in no rush to deal.
 
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15 minutes ago, GameTime said:

Stein/Pincus just said on Spotify Live that John Collins could be a part of a Durant blockbuster trade.

Soooooooooooooooo.... was it your sense that this was based on actual intel, or was this just two guys speaking their minds and conjecturizing? B/c I think we all think he could be, of course.

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1 minute ago, sturt said:

Soooooooooooooooo.... was it your sense that this was based on actual intel, or was this just two guys speaking their minds and conjecturizing? B/c I think we all think he could be, of course.

Mostly speculation on their part. Though I believe them when they are saying Durant is holding stuff up.

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2 hours ago, Plainview1981 said:

I think the roster is better in some ways... Better on Star power, hustle and defense...

But.... This team is weaker in FT effeciency, less depth, no post up scoring and mediocre shooting.

People can say that the Holidays technically shoot decent 3pt percentages, but they aren't sharpshooter or potent enough scorers to make teams pay.

Gallo and KH were enough threats that they could drop 25 on some nights.

Nobody is afraid of the Holiday's... Late game offensive execution is going suffer probably.

If Collins wants to be a scorer on the team he will have to do it from behind the 3pt line.

I think a 3rd wheel is where he fits best as a starter.

I don't he should be a feature scorer as a starter or as a 6th man.

He doesn't have the post scoring, creativity or the handles.

He needs to accept that he is an effecient role player and not a 20 PPG scorer on a good team.

I mean JC wasn’t really 2nd wheel just because he’s been the 2nd leading scorer…. Check the usage. He was at 20.5% last year….this is 4th option type on some teams. Even in previous years when he put up 20-10, it was more 3rd option type.  He’s never really been a normal 2nd wheel… so he should be good with the third role if he’s not traded and his numbers could stay around the same (hopefully closer to last year stats though)  The only thing that’s changed is his role bc of Capela who pushes him farther out from the basket. You won’t get 20-10 from JC…but at least the duo is impactful together overall.

Edited by GThawks3
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1 hour ago, GameTime said:

Stein/Pincus just said on Spotify Live that John Collins could be a part of a Durant blockbuster trade.  Said that all of the NBA is waiting on KD at this point.

Reminds me, but I ran across this comment from another poster about JC on reddit that pretty much sums up how I feel about his whole roster fit situation. 

 

I think the reason John doesn’t have a lot of trade value is because his skill set and position don’t match. If he was bigger and you could play him at the five he’d be one of the most valuable non star players in the league. His main strength in the pnr is severely handicapped while playing with most centers in the league.

To use John to the best of his ability you’d need to have a very specific type of center next to him. Someone who provides great interior defense and rim protection, while being able to stretch the floor and is cool with not being the primary big in pnr scenarios. Bonus points if they can switch on to perimeter players because John can’t.

There aren’t a lot of guys like this in the league. It’s really hard to find a good front court pairing with him. I think teams recognize this and that’s why they’re not offering us the best return on him. They’re not interested in paying for how good he really is when how useful he is on the court is what really matters.

He just doesn’t fit what the prototypical 4 man is now. A good interior defender that can switch out on the perimeter and make an open three. John can make an open three and get some weak side blocks as a help defender but he’s not quick enough to cut off driving lanes. He’s also not quick enough to guard anyone on the perimeter. He often gets lost on his defensive rotations (the entire team does really). He’s not big enough to bang with the traditional bigs either. He’s kinda in no mans land defensively while playing a position where that should be the priority.

John’s still a really good player though despite all of his short comings and in the right situation you’d definitely see him shine. The problem is it’s hard to create that ideal situation and even if you did I’m not sure it’d be worth it. Because you’d definitely be better off building your team around a flawed star than a flawed role player.

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Frankly to unlock John we would need to trade Capela for Myles Turner. Turner can  hit threes and block shots. On offense he doesn't need to be in the PNR and Collins could go back to feasting on it.

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5 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Frankly to unlock John we would need to trade Capela for Myles Turner. Turner can  hit threes and block shots. On offense he doesn't need to be in the PNR and Collins could go back to feasting on it.

Agreed. Or Ayton. 

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Thought #1... Few teams have 5 ideal starters for their position.

Let me amend that.

Few teams in NBA history have ever had 5 ideal starters for their position.

 

Thought #2... As a general rule, NBA players routinely gain some heft in their mid-to-late 20s, filling out their torsos in a way that allows them to better grind and stand their ground.

It's my perception that JC at age 26 and 27 will evolve into a stronger defensive post guy.

 

Thought #3... JC didn't get a lot of minutes with Delon, but when he did, he proved a lot of his critics wrong. That is, it's been said that JC cannot put the ball on the floor and drive to the basket. It's not that he "can't"... it's that he "doesn't." When Trae is on the floor with him, he has some very distinct functions on offense, ostensibly b/c of how he and Trae best play beside each other. But if you've went back and observed when he got on the floor with Delon, he has more leash, and at times he took advantage of that leash--getting the ball on the wing, and yes, beating his defender on the drive to the lane.

 

Thought #4... Surprising no one, I'm confident that this team can be a contender if... if... the FO doesn't abandon the premise that there is value in having a core that has played together for several seasons and as a result has a chemistry that only comes from that experience. Losing Kevin was big. If they deal JC, or Hunter, or Big2O... or self-evidently Trae... that effectively signals that young core chemistry is not on the list of priorities as it had been. And if that's the case, I think we effectively transition to a strategy that is too much like every other team for it to be very likely to be ultimately successful.

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1 hour ago, Sothron said:

Frankly to unlock John we would need to trade Capela for Myles Turner. Turner can  hit threes and block shots. On offense he doesn't need to be in the PNR and Collins could go back to feasting on it.

Once again, what's most ideal for JC doesn't mean shit. It's all about what's most ideal for Trae Young. There is a reason both players are always on the trade market. Because neither fit the status quo. 

Edited by NBASupes
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Myles Turner sucks.  Please no.

I think we have been very limited in our thinking about how to use John.   JC can fit what we do, especially now that we have another passer on the floor. 

 

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1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Myles Turner sucks.  Please no.

I think we have been very limited in our thinking about how to use John.   JC can fit what we do, especially now that we have another passer on the floor. 

 

I didn't say we SHOULD trade for Turner. I said Turner is the best center available we could put next to JC to really unlock him on offense. 

Ayton could probably do the same but he's not hitting threes. 

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6 hours ago, RandomFan said:

Reminds me, but I ran across this comment from another poster about JC on reddit that pretty much sums up how I feel about his whole roster fit situation. 

 

I think the reason John doesn’t have a lot of trade value is because his skill set and position don’t match. If he was bigger and you could play him at the five he’d be one of the most valuable non star players in the league. His main strength in the pnr is severely handicapped while playing with most centers in the league.

To use John to the best of his ability you’d need to have a very specific type of center next to him. Someone who provides great interior defense and rim protection, while being able to stretch the floor and is cool with not being the primary big in pnr scenarios. Bonus points if they can switch on to perimeter players because John can’t.

There aren’t a lot of guys like this in the league. It’s really hard to find a good front court pairing with him. I think teams recognize this and that’s why they’re not offering us the best return on him. They’re not interested in paying for how good he really is when how useful he is on the court is what really matters.

He just doesn’t fit what the prototypical 4 man is now. A good interior defender that can switch out on the perimeter and make an open three. John can make an open three and get some weak side blocks as a help defender but he’s not quick enough to cut off driving lanes. He’s also not quick enough to guard anyone on the perimeter. He often gets lost on his defensive rotations (the entire team does really). He’s not big enough to bang with the traditional bigs either. He’s kinda in no mans land defensively while playing a position where that should be the priority.

John’s still a really good player though despite all of his short comings and in the right situation you’d definitely see him shine. The problem is it’s hard to create that ideal situation and even if you did I’m not sure it’d be worth it. Because you’d definitely be better off building your team around a flawed star than a flawed role player.

What's tough is JC seems like one of the best personalities on the team, add to that being a true pro that improves his game each year.  Our current rebuild literally started with him, and he was on the all rookie team without Trae.  Unlike our picks from more recent years, he came into the league as an impact player.  

If this posted analysis from RandomFan is wrong, why are no teams offering enough to acquire JC?  There has to be truth to this.  I hate that it rings true, but I would love an answer to my question if anyone disagrees.  I've heard others say we are crazy to trade him, but let's go Windhorst with the question:

People say John Collins is one of the best PFs in the league, yet no one will offer enough for him when we make him available.  Why is that?  

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4 hours ago, Sothron said:

I didn't say we SHOULD trade for Turner. I said Turner is the best center available we could put next to JC to really unlock him on offense. 

Ayton could probably do the same but he's not hitting threes. 

This is where I disagree.   Too many squawkers are believing that between our 4 and 5, one should be an outside shooter and one should be the roll man on a PNR.  And we all remember JC as the roll man.   Well, JC has a diversity of ways that he can play and it's possible that both he and Clint to run the pick and roll at various times.  We just have to change the way we play offense.   Our offense is extremely limiting.  This year much more than last year. 

Adding Murray gives us a lot of room to expand the offense to play to JC's strengths... Some will be him shooting from outside ala Kevin Love.   Some will have him driving.  Some will have him being the roll man on a 2-4 PNR.

The point is that it's important who we bring in as Top Assistant.  We need somebody who knows dynamic offense.  Part of the problem is that we walk the ball up on every possession and give the defense the chance to get set.   When we change that part of our game, we will be a very strong, very different offensive force. 

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3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

This is where I disagree.   Too many squawkers are believing that between our 4 and 5, one should be an outside shooter and one should be the roll man on a PNR.  And we all remember JC as the roll man.   Well, JC has a diversity of ways that he can play and it's possible that both he and Clint to run the pick and roll at various times.  We just have to change the way we play offense.   Our offense is extremely limiting.  This year much more than last year. 

Adding Murray gives us a lot of room to expand the offense to play to JC's strengths... Some will be him shooting from outside ala Kevin Love.   Some will have him driving.  Some will have him being the roll man on a 2-4 PNR.

The point is that it's important who we bring in as Top Assistant.  We need somebody who knows dynamic offense.  Part of the problem is that we walk the ball up on every possession and give the defense the chance to get set.   When we change that part of our game, we will be a very strong, very different offensive force. 

In other words...stop blaming the players for everything! A lot should go into this to make this thing work! There is enough talent now so go into the lab and find a way.

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