The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[REHawksFan]

1 minute ago, Atlantaholic said:

It's for sure not impossible. But I will say it is rare. 

I think Horford is another great example of someone who developed an outside shot. 

As for OO do we even know that he can't shoot? He literally didn't take a single jumpshot last year.

I certainly don't think it's a give that he can't shoot.  I'm hopeful that he'll show some range in games this year.  

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Trade Harkless

Convinced that McM is excited to have himself a new Solo. If he can stay healthy for a change... *sigh* we say that too much around here... that might be a long-term relationship, one that outlasts the current contract.

But what do I know... I was thinking Schlenk might extend Delon this time last year.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Even Minnesota realize that and realized they had to pair KAT with one of the best defensive centers to ever play the game to protect him and KAT is an elite offensive player unlike JC who's just a very good one at best. He's limited to a degree on offense as well.

Kat can't guard on the perimeter at all so this defeats your entire argument that the 4 position is a defensive position

[timebomb]

Chicago and Miami got hard capped by all of these moves last year. Can someone explain? 
Chicago Bulls

• Acquired Lonzo Ball from Pelicans via sign-and-trade.
• Acquired DeMar DeRozan from Spurs via sign-and-trade.
• Used non-taxpayer mid-level exception on Alex Caruso.

 

Miami Heat

• Acquired Kyle Lowry from Raptors via sign-and-trade.
• Used non-taxpayer mid-level exception on P.J. Tucker.

Would seem to me Hawks can make multiple moves still. If you’re going to get hard capped anyway might as well make multiple moves to get it.

Edited July 4, 2022 by timebomb

[thecampster]

Part 2 - the last 3 slots.  With the trade of Landale and subbing out Clint's bonuses, we are now at 12 salaries, $148,627,855.

This gives us access to the MLE but if we use more than $6,479,000 of the MLE, we become hard capped if we surpass the apron (which we would).  So here is what is available to us now.

1. $6.479 mil MLE.

2. 2 trade exceptions. 1 expires 7/7 for $1.78 million.  1 expires 1/13 for $1.67 million.

3. Vet minimum contracts.

 

So why will it take time to fill out the last 3 roster slots?  The MLE can be offered up to 4 years with annual raises.  So negotiating the 1 right vet to take that salary at their preferred number of years is the key. The order those salaries are processed will matter for which rules kick in.  So we're waiting on a few things.  

1. If a trade involving Clint or JC takes place and the resulting salary impact (salary dump would give us the full MLE of $10.49 million to spend).

2. Summer league to see if a non-rostered player shows out.

3. A quality vet to be willing to accept an MLE deal to play here (someone like Robin Lopez).

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, REHawksFan said:

I disagree.  It's a 3 years comparison and he wasn't hurt for two full years.  He's clearly taken a back seat to Clint in the PNR and the numbers bare that out.  He's no longer a focal point of the offense.  We all talked about it all year...he gets lost in favor of Clint far too often (especially when you consider that JC is far better at finishing than Clint is).   

It is what it is at this point.   

Of course, his raw numbers went down when we added Clint, Gallo, and Bogi. His efficiency and impact did not though, and his defense took a big leap. Last year he was in and out of the lineup and playing a significant portion of the season through his hand and foot injuries so using that to show a "trend" is misleading for sure. 

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, timebomb said:

Chicago and Miami got hard capped by all of these moves last year. Can someone explain? 
Chicago Bulls

• Acquired Lonzo Ball from Pelicans via sign-and-trade.
• Acquired DeMar DeRozan from Spurs via sign-and-trade.
• Used non-taxpayer mid-level exception on Alex Caruso.

 

Miami Heat

• Acquired Kyle Lowry from Raptors via sign-and-trade.
• Used non-taxpayer mid-level exception on P.J. Tucker.

 

Acquiring a player in sign and trade limits you to spending at the tax apron level for 1 season.  This is to stop rich teams from just signing away everyone else's players.

MLE's can be used up to $10.49 million but spending above $6.479 million limits you to the apron level. This is to stop teams from just offering 4 year salaries at the MLE to a vet every year, effectively having 4 hardship salaries of $40 million on their rosters rotating. Again to stop richer teams from abusing the cap structure.

[thecampster]

24 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He would cost Atlanta the LT. I don't know if he is worth that for Atlanta

We need 3 players and only have $1.8 million to spend to avoid the LT....you are going to be in the LT barring a JC/Clint trade...just accept that.

[REHawksFan]

2 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Of course, his raw numbers went down when we added Clint, Gallo, and Bogi. His efficiency and impact did not though, and his defense took a big leap. Last year he was in and out of the lineup and playing a significant portion of the season through his hand and foot injuries so using that to show a "trend" is misleading for sure. 

Not sure how you can say his efficiency didn't go down:  

TS% 65.9% to 64.5%

PER 23.5 to 20.6

eFG% 63.2% to 61.0%

It's not about injuries or fewer shot attempts.  He's impact on games is visibly diminished from 2 years ago.   

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Too many squawkers value offense at all cost over defense

Not me I been wanting to grind down for  minute now.

[timebomb]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Acquiring a player in sign and trade limits you to spending at the tax apron level for 1 season.  This is to stop rich teams from just signing away everyone else's players.

MLE's can be used up to $10.49 million but spending above $6.479 million limits you to the apron level. This is to stop teams from just offering 4 year salaries at the MLE to a vet every year, effectively having 4 hardship salaries of $40 million on their rosters rotating. Again to stop richer teams from abusing the cap structure.

Yeah I get that part I guess what I’m saying is why are people so afraid of it. There seems to be ways to finagle the cap and it worked out pretty well for these two teams last year. 

[thecampster]

Just now, timebomb said:

Yeah I get that part I guess what I’m saying is why are people so afraid of it. There seems to be ways to finagle the cap and it worked out pretty well for these two teams last year. 

I've gone over the limiting aspects of the Apron earlier in this thread.  Best to just go back to about page 300 and find those posts.

[JayBirdHawk]

Those who know Durant cite two primary factors: a rocky Nets season that ended in a first-round playoff sweep; and the franchise’s soured relationship with Irving, his close friend. Durant doesn’t see much hope for a revival under the circumstances, those sources say. And he’s unhappy that his friend is unhappy.

 – via Howard Beck @ Sports Illustrated

 

 

As one insider sympathetic to Durant noted, “Kyrie sabotaged everything,” but Durant is reacting more to the effects than the cause, and he now views the Nets as unsalvageable. “There’s no use in (him) taking sides when it’s all too far gone,” the person said. In essence, the Nets were right in principle, but wrong in practical terms, failing to understand that making Irving upset “was going to drive Kevin away.” It’s instructive to note that for all the chaos, all the havoc and all the stress, Durant still wants to play with Irving, according to league insiders.

 

– via Howard Beck @ Sports Illustrated

 

 

 

[Atlantaholic]

8 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Not sure how you can say his efficiency didn't go down:  

TS% 65.9% to 64.5%

PER 23.5 to 20.6

eFG% 63.2% to 61.0%

It's not about injuries or fewer shot attempts.  He's impact on games is visibly diminished from 2 years ago.   

PER is not an efficiency stat it's a raw number aggregate. (rebounds, or points go down, PER goes down).

A 1 point drop in TS% from an insane 66 to 65 is hardly a drop at all. His box +- and Raptor improved dramatically, and he had a massive jump in WAR from 1.7 to 6.8, Looking at value stats his 20-21 season was Collins' best season of his life by a huge margin. 

[JayBirdHawk]

23 minutes ago, sturt said:

Convinced that McM is excited to have himself a new Solo. 

Is he really though?

Solo was 'different' lol

[Atlantaholic]

And the notion that with Collins as a #3 type option/player we are not maximizing him and thus we should trade him is also ridiculous. Was Chris Bosh maximized in Miami? Was Pau maximized in LA? Was Kevin Love maximized in Cleveland? He's also not being paid top 2 money so it's not like we are being inefficient on a per dollar basis with Collins. 

[Spud2nique]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Is he really though?

Solo was 'different' lol

 

[Atlantaholic]

My final thoughts on Collins.

The legitimate reason we would want to trade him is if the FO does not think he can stay healthy.

Otherwise, unless we are getting a clear upgrade in return, trading Collins does not improve us. 

[sturt]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Is he really though?

Yes, I think so at least. Pretty much. Not a lot of difference. Last five years' numbers for each through age 28 (Harkless' current age)...

 

[JayBirdHawk]

37 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

It's for sure not impossible. But I will say it is rare. 

I think Horford is another great example of someone who developed an outside shot. 

As for OO do we even know that he can't shoot? He literally didn't take a single jumpshot last year.

 

2 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

I mean....  that's simply not true.  JC developed a 3pt shot at this level.  He took none in college and less than 1 per game his first season in the NBA, making 34.0%. 

Here's the difference between Horford/JC and OO. Both Horford and JC had decent midrange jumpshots in College and in their early NBA careers which lead to them being asked/told they can expand their range to the 3pt line. So they had a head start.

In 2 years with the Hawks we have not yet seen a midrange game from OO. I really hope he does as he says and comes back with one.