The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[theheroatl]

29 minutes ago, thecampster said:

For the Ayton crowd, please remember that a trade for Ayton effectively hard caps the team at a max $154.36 million (ish) in salary (apron 22-23) and caps us at the apron every year for the next 4 years.  If the Hawks snt trade for Ayton, you can say goodbye to getting anything of value back for Gallo, keeping Gallo this year an/or keeping more than Wright when any player comes up for free agency.

Let me simplify it.  Waive Gallo, snt max Ayton for Capella...no other moves....we're at $146.88 million in salary with 9 players on the roster and only 7.5 million in room left under the apron.  Take a second and think that through.

Stretch Gallo and you get 3.3 million more this year.  Trade Bogi for a few scrubs and you get more players and can build the roster with min vets. But the cap gets/stays very tight.

Technically, trading 2 players for Gobert (or other) and waiving Gallo leaves you with no hard cap and less money spent on the cap to build off of.

 

See below  (Make sure you understand it before championing 1 or the other).

Total	$136,339,507	$146,882,610	$136,805,024
Apron	154360000	154360000	154360000
Room under Apron	N/A	($7,477,390)	N/A
LT	149000000	149000000	149000000
Amount under LT	$12,660,493	$2,117,390	$12,194,976
Players on Roster	8	8	7
	No change, waive Gallo	minus Capela, Gallo	minus Capela, Bogi, Gallo
		Plus Ayton	Plus Gobert

Why does everyone always think that we can ship out just Capela for an Ayton SNT? Go read up on the cap rules.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, theheroatl said:

Why does everyone always think that we can ship out just Capela for an Ayton SNT? Go read up on the cap rules.

Because the Suns can only receive $18 million for Ayton since he is a BYC player. 

[theheroatl]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Because the Suns can only receive $18 million for Ayton since he is a BYC player. 

Yes thank you again for that but the Hawks have to ship out the new salary amount! 
 

A third team gets one of our 12m+ salary guys for TPE or a pick!

Edited June 19, 2022 by theheroatl

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

Yes thank you again for that but the Hawks have to ship out the new salary amount! 

Hawks have $136.1 in guaranteed contracts including Gallo's $5 million.

$136.1 -$18 (Capela) + $30 (Ayton) = $148 million - right at the Luxury Tax line which leaves very little wiggle room for completion the rest of the roster but in principal the deal can work without sending out immediate additional salary. Because it's a SnT and as Campster pointed out the max total payroll the Hawks can have is hard capped at $154 million after a SnT.

[theheroatl]

Once again you have to ship out an additional $12m on the Ayton deal

[warcore]

 

[Guest]

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Tough fit? That's perplexing to me, but okay.

 

But to the other... might not be as costly as newly understood after all...

https://8points9seconds.com/2022/06/15/indiana-pacers-malcolm-brogdon-stock/

 

That doesn't mean anything, its about what Indy wants for him

[theheroatl]

Let me make it simple.. it must be a 3 or 4 team trade or two separate but immediate trades:

Suns: Ayton $15.7 out, Capela $19m in (not sure if they need to ship out 3-4m in salary to 3rd or 4th team - Haven’t looked at that aspect yet)

Atlanta: Capela $19m out, $12m+ to 3rd team (OR 1-2 players to the 3rd or 4th team.. the teams absorbing salary to facilitate).

3rd Team: $12m player in, TPE with Draft picks to Hawks

They can add a 4th team to take additional Suns salary going out (Saric, Shamet) in exchange for picks + TPE.

Edited June 19, 2022 by theheroatl

[RandomFan]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Here's the Suns fans perspective of DA for Capela trade. Interesting and hilarious. You got idiots who really think Ayton is better than Capela on defense when Clint is several tiers better. Capela is not just a better shot blocker and rebounder, he's a way better rim protector and just as good at paint protection. He's a much smarter and consistent defender. He switches as good as any big not named Gobert. He's athletic for a NBA center with good speed for his size. 

NBA fans are extreme casuals on the non marquee teams across the league. None of them fools even quoted stats. They just was saying it like it's a foregone conclusion. 

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/platform/amp/2022/6/18/23173454/inside-the-phoenix-suns-topics-robert-sarver-a-possible-da-trade-with-atlanta-and-dario-saric-nba

To be fair, you grossly underestimate Ayton defensively in nearly every post. He's grown tremendously on that side of the ball over the last three years. To the point of only being about 1 tier lower than CC, if that. 

The thing is CC spends every bit of energy on defense and running the floor, where Ayton still splits his energy between both O and D. 

But you sound silly always trashing Ayton's defense.

[sturt]

13 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That doesn't mean anything, its about what Indy wants for him

Um.

Yes, Indy can decide they value the guy too much and if no one's going to meet their demands, they can certainly hold on to him.

But it does mean something if the report is accurate, because it tells Indy what the market is, and forces them to adjust their expectations accordingly, or hold on to a $20m player that they chose not to play down the stretch b/c they saw no incentive to do so.

[NBASupes]

21 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

To be fair, you grossly underestimate Ayton defensively in nearly every post. He's grown tremendously on that side of the ball over the last three years. To the point of only being about 1 tier lower than CC, if that. 

The thing is CC spends every bit of energy on defense and running the floor, where Ayton still splits his energy between both O and D. 

But you sound silly always trashing Ayton's defense.

I watch him his games all of the time. I know what type of defender he is. His RAPTOR isn't lying. He's just good, not very good like Poeltl, not excellent like Clint and damn sure is not elite like Gobert. 

Ayton is probably one of the most overrated players I've seen by his fans. He's not a max cat like JC. I want him because we can spam his ass which is all Trae does with bigs anyway and when he can't, it looks like the Miami series. 

Ayton is a very good player but ya'll talk about him like it's close between him and Ayton when those two are massively different impact wise. 

Look at Gobert WAR compared to Ayton WAR. Shit, compare it to Capela WAR. 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, theheroatl said:

Why does everyone always think that we can ship out just Capela for an Ayton SNT? Go read up on the cap rules.

Snt, byc....you can only send about 19 mil out for his 30 mil salary because due to byc status, only about 19 mil will count.

[NBASupes]

33 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

Let me make it simple.. it must be a 3 or 4 team trade or two separate but immediate trades:

Suns: Ayton $15.7 out, Capela $19m in (not sure if they need to ship out 3-4m in salary to 3rd or 4th team - Haven’t looked at that aspect yet)

Atlanta: Capela $19m out, $12m+ to 3rd team (OR 1-2 players to the 3rd or 4th team.. the teams absorbing salary to facilitate).

3rd Team: $12m player in, TPE with Draft picks to Hawks

They can add a 4th team to take additional Suns salary going out (Saric, Shamet) in exchange for picks + TPE.

Atlanta has time before this becomes a thing. We still have the draft to account for. Saric isn't available, Shamet is but which 3rd team wants to use cap space to take his contract. 

[thecampster]

35 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

Let me make it simple.. it must be a 3 or 4 team trade or two separate but immediate trades:

Suns: Ayton $15.7 out, Capela $19m in (not sure if they need to ship out 3-4m in salary to 3rd or 4th team - Haven’t looked at that aspect yet)

Atlanta: Capela $19m out, $12m+ to 3rd team (OR 1-2 players to the 3rd or 4th team.. the teams absorbing salary to facilitate).

3rd Team: $12m player in, TPE with Draft picks to Hawks

They can add a 4th team to take additional Suns salary going out (Saric, Shamet) in exchange for picks + TPE.

Same math applies with the 154 mil hard cap no matter what scenario you craft 

[theheroatl]

25 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Same math applies with the 154 mil hard cap no matter what scenario you craft 

You don't understand BYC and the premise behind it. The third team takes the difference in player comp due to BYC. That is the whole reasoning behind it to prevent teams from loop-holing the cap. 

Since Phoenix sends only $19m out they can only take $19m back but we are taking in 31m so we have to send out 31m. The 3rd team takes the $12m. We are not increasing our salaries!

We send out 31m in salaries and take-in 31m in salaries, waive and stretch Gallo, we will be NO-where near the tax apron (6 million OVER the tax line). You REALLY think Ressler is paying tax on 6m in salaries without consolidating our existing roster?

Just because the apron is a thing doesn't mean the Hawks have ever even approached it. Besides hard capping in 2 years with Ayton, Trae and maybe SGA or Donovan is better than playing the I don't want to pay tax line we've been doing.

Don't be afraid to tiptoe the hard cap or tax or else you may as well be OKC eternally selling players for future picks.

Edited June 19, 2022 by theheroatl

[kg01]

Omfg..... 

[hylndr11]

Good thing we made another thread 

[thecampster]

34 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

You don't understand BYC and the premise behind it. The third team takes the difference in player comp due to BYC. That is the whole reasoning behind it to prevent teams from loop-holing the cap. 

Since Phoenix sends only $19m out they can only take $19m back but we are taking in 31m so we have to send out 31m. The 3rd team takes the $12m. We are not increasing our salaries!

We send out 31m in salaries and take-in 31m in salaries, waive and stretch Gallo, we will be NO-where near the tax apron (6 million OVER the tax line). You REALLY think Ressler is paying tax on 6m in salaries without consolidating our existing roster?

Just because the apron is a thing doesn't mean the Hawks have ever even approached it. Besides hard capping in 2 years with Ayton, Trae and maybe SGA or Donovan is better than playing the I don't want to pay tax line we've been doing.

Don't be afraid to tiptoe the hard cap or tax or else you may as well be OKC eternally selling players for future picks.

You must be new.

[thecampster]

Did you look at the numbers?  7-8 players, 136-147 mil.  7-8 players left to add to the roster, 7-19 million in salary to allot to those 7-8 players.