Filling out the roster

[macdaddy]

Shams now reporting Hawks and Suns discussing Crowder.  Now there's the fit for backup PF that we need.  And i used to hate the guy.   

Not sure what it will take to land him though. 

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Shams now reporting Hawks and Suns discussing Crowder.  Now there's the fit for backup PF that we need.  And i used to hate the guy.   

Not sure what it will take to land him though. 

Crowder's salary $10.1 million.

Now that we are under the Luxury tax we can take back player salary ×175%+100k. So JHoli contract fits...which puts us back over the tax after the trade.

...

 

 

UNLESS....we are moving Bogi as part of a bigger deal with more 'stuff' coming back from Phoenix 

 

 

 

[macdaddy]

can we trade Culver?

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

can we trade Culver?

He's on a 2way deal.

[JayBirdHawk]

47 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Shams now reporting Hawks and Suns discussing Crowder.  Now there's the fit for backup PF that we need.  And i used to hate the guy.   

Not sure what it will take to land him though. 

Suns fans dreaming BIG - Holiday and JJ for Crowder.

I do wonder if this is anything new frkm Shams (not much info at all) since this was Zach Lowe's trade proposal 3 weeks ago

Crowder
Shamet
Saric
2 Firsts

for

Collins
Harkless

[sturt]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

We are definitely going to need and see a lot of JHoliday.  We can't count on the rooks or Bogi yet which leaves him as the only good backup at 2/3.

Gay is still in Utah because they can't find anyone to take him and a bad contract for a 36 year old who they gave a 3 year contract to but didn't even like him enough to give him playoff minutes. 

Jazz Forward Rudy Gay 'Still has Something to Prove' (msn.com)

 

1. If we "need" Holiday, that's not a good thing.

We can't count on him.

Too many people seem to have Justin Holiday 2019-20 locked in their heads. He's 33. He's went from good defender on a good defensive team to one of the worst defenders on one of the worst defensive teams. He's also regressed, though not nearly as drastically, offensively. This is not the guy you think he is. Now PJ Tucker proves you should never say never... a player could have a turnaround even as he gets well past 30. But "count" on that? Not if you can help it.

We need AJ to show up like many teams see their 1st round picks show up. Need.

 

2. "Didn't like him enough to give him playoff minutes"

That would be a Quin Snyder thing, not a front office decision, of course.

And now... the rest of the story. Snyder didn't hardly play any PF on the Utah roster in their Dallas series.

He apparently felt he was at a match-up disadvantage if he played his PFs.

 

Did Utah think they were getting Rudy Gay 2020-21 version? Yes.

Was he Rudy Gay 2020-21 version? No.

But, as one Jazz blogger wrote...

 

 

3. As for Gay's contract, it's that third year player option that sucks. Not sure I mentioned that.

[sturt]

Once one accepts that the team doesn't want to be in the tax unless it is the consequence of a high impact player... is Crowder anyone's idea of a high impact player?

Not mine.

I do like the general idea that you're dealing with a team that is in a pickle, which puts them at some degree of disadvantage in getting back the return they'd normally be able to expect.

I just don't know how you do that in this case w/o sending PHX one of our younger assets... and that's scary.

[macdaddy]

17 minutes ago, sturt said:

He's went from good defender on a good defensive team to one of the worst defenders on one of the worst defensive teams

This in a nutshell describes my overall opinion of putting a lot of weight on individual defensive stats. 

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

This in a nutshell describes my overall opinion of putting a lot of weight on individual defensive stats. 

It's not an individual defensive stat. Not as I presented it, it's not.

 

What routinely happens is that people will cite an individual player's DRTG and take that as meaningful.

It is not. That much is true.

 

In order to make it meaningful, one has to understand the individual's DRTG in the context of the team's DRTG.

In order to make it significantly meaningful, one has to understand, then, the team's DRTG in the context of the rest of the league's teams' DRTG ranking.

 

A player can either affect his team's DRTG for the better or the worse... eg, if he's among those players who is pulling up the team DRTG, that's good... and if he's pulling down the team's DRTG, that's bad.

Holiday pulled up the team DRTG for a Pacers team in 19-20 that was in the top 10 of the league.

Holiday pulled down slightly a team DRTG for a Pacers team in 20-21 that was smack dab in the middle of the league.

Holiday pulled down the team DRTG for a Pacers team in 21-22 that finished, iirc, 28th in the league.

 

There's no other way to explain that but that Holiday was awful. When he was on the floor, one of the worst defenses in the league was worse than it was when it had others on the floor instead of him.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

14 minutes ago, sturt said:

 

I just don't know how you do that in this case w/o sending PHX one of our younger assets... and that's scary.

I'm certainly not interested in doing this, not for an aging guy and who is a FA and already looking for an extension. He can leave for nothing.

[sturt]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Suns fans dreaming BIG - Holiday and JJ for Crowder.

I do wonder if this is anything new frkm Shams (not much info at all) since this was Zach Lowe's trade proposal 3 weeks ago

Crowder
Shamet
Saric
2 Firsts

for

Collins
Harkless

 

BogBog was supposedly on their radar before.

Would two years of BogBog plus Krejci

for

one year of Crowder plus Shamet be their thinking?

We end up taking about $120k more in salary, but that still leaves us under the tax line.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, sturt said:

 

BogBog was supposedly on their radar before.

Would two years of BogBog plus Krejci

for

one year of Crowder plus Shamet be their thinking?

We end up taking about $120k more in salary, but that still leaves us under the tax line.

Not particularly fond of Shamet or his contract. Saric and his expiring contract would be more appealing.

[Spud2nique]

Hawks get: Jae Crowder

Suns get: Justin Holiday/ Jalen Johnson

Get’r done Schlenk! 🫡  

[Spud2nique]

17 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Hawks get: Jae Crowder

Suns get: Justin Holiday/ Jalen Johnson

Get’r done Schlenk! 🫡  

Mac @macdaddy why glum ?

[macdaddy]

16 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Hawks get: Jae Crowder

Suns get: Justin Holiday/ Jalen Johnson

Get’r done Schlenk! 🫡  

i don't think this is good for us. we'd be super thin at the wing spots and everything hinging on Bogi's health and rookie development.   Neither of those things have been strong spots the last couple years. 

[sturt]

57 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Hawks get: Jae Crowder

Suns get: Justin Holiday/ Jalen Johnson

Get’r done Schlenk! 🫡  

 

Hard to persuade me that they would consider Crowder to be worth going over the tax line.

 

 

[Diesel]

36 minutes ago, sturt said:

 

Hard to persuade me that they would consider Crowder to be worth going over the tax line.

 

 

I don't think we'd go over the tax for him.

However, he's a vet who can shoot and brings toughness.   Our problem is still inside toughness. 

 

[AHF]

4 hours ago, sturt said:

Once one accepts that the team doesn't want to be in the tax unless it is the consequence of a high impact player... is Crowder anyone's idea of a high impact player?

Not mine.

I do like the general idea that you're dealing with a team that is in a pickle, which puts them at some degree of disadvantage in getting back the return they'd normally be able to expect.

I just don't know how you do that in this case w/o sending PHX one of our younger assets... and that's scary.

Fully agree with you.  I don't think Crowder moves the needle enough at all.  If Ressler is going to pay tax, it is going to be to acquire a stud not a good rotation player off the bench.

[JayBirdHawk]

I noted before the incentives for both DJ and CC that can push us over the tax which I think the Hawks are trying to avoid like the plague (unless it's for a real needle mover type player). 

Quote

Atlanta’s battle with the luxury tax will be an ongoing story as well. The Hawks are theoretically $1.7 million below the line right now, but incentives in the deals for Murray and Capela could add as much as $3.5 million and push them back over.

Capela gets $1 million if the team makes the conference finals and $500,000 apiece for defensive rebound rate and free-throw percentage targets, while Murray has $500,000 incentives for making NBA All-Defense, hitting more than 125 3-pointers and having a true shooting percentage greater than 58 percent. (Yes, it’s true. The Hawks could end up in the luxury tax because of a stat pulled from my keister a quarter-century ago. Dare to dream, people.)

Look for Atlanta to tread carefully along this path until the trade deadline, staying at 14 players and possibly dropping cash on somebody to take Krejčí’s number off their cap figure just before the guarantee date. By midseason, they’ll have a better idea of which incentives are realistically attainable for Murray and Capela and can optimize accordingly. 

Per John Hollinger via The Athletic

I think we start the season as is with our current 14 players.

[sturt]

44 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I noted before the incentives for both DJ and CC that can push us over the tax which I think the Hawks are trying to avoid like the plague (unless it's for a real needle mover type player). 

I think we start the season as is with our current 14 players.

I think I don't know what to think now that this Crowder thing has come up... I felt more safe taking your position ever since the Harkless trade... secure, even.

I'm no longer secure. I can't make sense of the reported interest in Crowder if it makes us go over the tax line, but I also can't make sense of the interest in Crowder if it makes us lose an asset like BogBog or Jalen.

I will say I feel at least a little more secure in the idea that they're content to go over the tax line if it means they'd made the conference finals.... and as for the rest, they don't call them "unlikely" incentives for nothing. Hollinger isn't reporting anything here, he's just observing. He has no new and important insight to give.

By the way... Hollinger's theory on how to deal with Krejci isn't well thought-out. You can cut Krejci later, sure, but you still have to pay someone because you can't go more than 2 weeks with just 13 players on the roster... so, it solves nothing to lose Krejci.