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Is there a hard reality Check Coming???


Diesel

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3 hours ago, AHF said:

26 minutes together

Missing something here, but not entirely confident I understand your line by line, either.

Here's how 35 minutes each for TY and DM shakes out.

 

 

2022-08-05_22-31-20.png

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14 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The ball also has to find Trae when he's open. Not like Hunter or Bogi were creating a lot of looks for others. 

Murray will solve that problem and get Trae spot up looks from 3.

doesn't matter if Trae is open if he's just standing 30 feet from the basket waving his arms in the air.   

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2 hours ago, shakes said:

doesn't matter if Trae is open if he's just standing 30 feet from the basket waving his arms in the air.   

Trae is a professional basketball player. You don't think he can do something as easy as moving without the ball?

He's not going to be constantly running around like Steph Curry. He'll rotate to open spots on the court and might run a few elevator plays to get open.

The big thing is driving into the paint creates open looks for shooters. If Murray has the ball and can get in the paint, that opens up opportunities for shooters on the wing and especially in the corners.

You're talking as if Trae will refuse to do this, or is incapable of doing it.

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19 hours ago, sturt said:

It helps to look at it visually...

 

2022-08-05_14-34-24.png

Sturt, do this another way.

Keep your same grid, but break down each 12 min period as when you would like to see Trae and DJM rotate on and off the court.

I think then people could get a real visual sense of how a rotation would work and how many minutes they can possibly play with each other.

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1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Sturt, do this another way.

Keep your same grid, but break down each 12 min period as when you would like to see Trae and DJM rotate on and off the court.

I think then people could get a real visual sense of how a rotation would work and how many minutes they can possibly play with each other.

If the point is to visualize what that might breakdown to look like, sure.

 

But if we're simply wanting to understand how many minutes they can possibly be on the floor together given the premise that one or the other will always be on the floor... it's more simply and best illuminated by seeing the overlap when you stretch X-number of minutes for both from either side of the spectrum.

 

It complicates that otherwise-simple deduction if we try, instead, to envision the former.

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2 minutes ago, sturt said:

If the point is to visualize what that might breakdown to look like, sure.

 

But if we're simply wanting to understand how many minutes they can possibly be on the floor together given the premise that one or the other will always be on the floor... it's more simply and best illuminated by seeing the overlap when you stretch X-number of minutes for both from either side of the spectrum.

 

It complicates that otherwise-simple deduction if we try, instead, to envision the former.

Do it and see.

When you do it, we might see how AHF surmized that Trae and DJM could play 26 min with each other.

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14 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Do it and see.

When you do it, we might see how AHF surmized that Trae and DJM could play 26 min with each other.

They can play 26 minutes together.

But you couldn't have one or both of them on the floor for the entire 48 minutes of the game.

I believe AHF said something about ADay playing 4 minutes.

A reasonable guess is that he's suggesting that there would be 4 minutes, then, that neither Trae nor DJM would be on the floor... allowing, then, the 26 minutes thing.

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Here's what giving Aaron Holiday 4 minutes, and for those 4 minutes not having either Trae nor DJM would look like...

 

2022-08-06_11-09-02.png

 

To the degree you expand or contract ADay's minutes, that allows Trae and DJM to be on the floor for less or more minutes together.

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3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Trae is a professional basketball player. You don't think he can do something as easy as moving without the ball?

He's not going to be constantly running around like Steph Curry. He'll rotate to open spots on the court and might run a few elevator plays to get open.

The big thing is driving into the paint creates open looks for shooters. If Murray has the ball and can get in the paint, that opens up opportunities for shooters on the wing and especially in the corners.

You're talking as if Trae will refuse to do this, or is incapable of doing it.

This is exactly what I was saying during the playoffs this season and yet there he was absolutely glued to a spot and not moving an inch without the ball.    

So yes, it makes no sense that someone as smart as Trae can’t figure out how to do something as simple as moving his feet, but the only sample size we have to work with is Trae standing 30 feet from the basket waving his arms and refusing to move without the ball.

I’m not going to just assume he will correct that considering he didn’t correct it the entire playoff series and it was such a simple thing to fix.       I’m hopeful, but definitely not dumb enough to assume anything.

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20 hours ago, sturt said:

Missing something here, but not entirely confident I understand your line by line, either.

Here's how 35 minutes each for TY and DM shakes out.

 

 

2022-08-05_22-31-20.png 

It is a minute by minute layout of who is playing every minute of a 48 minute game.  So it is laid by half.  First half first six minutes are with both on the floor, etc.  They play 26 minutes together.  You are likely not capturing the impact of the few minutes Aaron Holiday is playing PG (and both are therefore on the bench).

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On 8/4/2022 at 1:25 PM, AHF said:

You are likely not capturing the impact of the few minutes Aaron Holiday is playing PG (and both are therefore on the bench).

Quoting Michelle Scott... that's what he said... 😉  ......................................

7 hours ago, sturt said:

I believe AHF said something about ADay playing 4 minutes.

A reasonable guess is that he's suggesting that there would be 4 minutes, then, that neither Trae nor DJM would be on the floor... allowing, then, the 26 minutes thing.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, shakes said:

This is exactly what I was saying during the playoffs this season and yet there he was absolutely glued to a spot and not moving an inch without the ball.    

So yes, it makes no sense that someone as smart as Trae can’t figure out how to do something as simple as moving his feet, but the only sample size we have to work with is Trae standing 30 feet from the basket waving his arms and refusing to move without the ball.

I’m not going to just assume he will correct that considering he didn’t correct it the entire playoff series and it was such a simple thing to fix.       I’m hopeful, but definitely not dumb enough to assume anything.

This is something Nate has explicitly said that he has Trae working on this offseason. I understand that from day one until now this hasn’t happened in Trae’s career. But this is the first time that it has been a point of emphasis for him.

Previous times that Trae has had offseason homework, he came back with it completed and then some;

Drawing fouls/make teams pay for being physical

Add a Mid Range game

Adjust to the new foul rules

check, check, check.

This will be a tougher challenge but I think he can pull it off knowing his work ethic.

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On 8/5/2022 at 1:15 PM, sillent said:

I think this is one of the biggest slept on facts. Our whole starting 5 could easily average 20 or 100pts per game.

Bogi can do the same off the bench or at the very least give us 15ppg.

We haven't ever had a starting 5 this strong not even in the 60win season.

People are looking for offense from our bench (which will be there) but our biggest concerns was our defense. Our new bench considerably makes that better.

Offense with a player like Trae Young and company is not that big of an issue.

I can definitely see Dre and John taking on bigger roles this yr as well as Clint looking more like his better self since he won't have to be the only/main anchor on defense.

With Murray, Hunter and CC covering head to toe on defense we will be much better in that department. John has already taking steps up and Trae is getting better in the passing lanes and may look better overall as well.

Point is we've gotten way better by losing a lot of our weak defenders. Everybody in the NBA can score (for the most part) but stopping people was our biggest issue.

We now should be way better in that department and even if our bench really struggles we have at least 5 to 6 players we know can get above 20 and can stagger them and give them more opportunities.

Not to mention we have a guy like Dejounte who made the spurs look functional with the group of guys they put on the floor. I think our bench can compete with most of their starters from last yr.

I will be very surprised if someone on the Hawks not named Trae averaged 20 or more points per game this season.  Bringing in better players is more likely to result in individual statistics going down, but team winning going up - which is obviously what you want.

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On 8/6/2022 at 2:11 PM, shakes said:

This is exactly what I was saying during the playoffs this season and yet there he was absolutely glued to a spot and not moving an inch without the ball.    

So yes, it makes no sense that someone as smart as Trae can’t figure out how to do something as simple as moving his feet, but the only sample size we have to work with is Trae standing 30 feet from the basket waving his arms and refusing to move without the ball.

I’m not going to just assume he will correct that considering he didn’t correct it the entire playoff series and it was such a simple thing to fix.       I’m hopeful, but definitely not dumb enough to assume anything.

Trae can move without the ball.  The problem in the pass was that he didn't have anybody who would pass it to him.   How many times did we see Iso Bogi or Iso Kev?  There were Iso because with the ball in their hand, if they looked at anybody it was PNR.  They didn't have the thought to pass to Trae and it was limiting.   I don't think we will see the same thing with Murray.   Trae knows it's on... it will be a different type of year. 

 

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Trae still had to show me he is willing to work off the ball.  I haven’t seen it during his first years with us.  He stands around waiting for the ball to come back to him far more than he moves off the ball.  This is a good opportunity to do more movement this year.  Nothing holding Trae back on that other than a desire to make it happen.  Guys like Russell Westbrook never learned and just stood their for their entire career.  I think Trae can be better than that off the ball but he hasn’t shown it yet.

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14 hours ago, Packfill said:

I will be very surprised if someone on the Hawks not named Trae averaged 20 or more points per game this season.  Bringing in better players is more likely to result in individual statistics going down, but team winning going up - which is obviously what you want.

Honestly I expect the same. My response was to the fact that if the bench is as weak as people may assume, we have enough in the starting lineup. Plus with players like Bogi to keep our offense up and others we'd be ok.

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23 hours ago, Packfill said:

I will be very surprised if someone on the Hawks not named Trae averaged 20 or more points per game this season.  Bringing in better players is more likely to result in individual statistics going down, but team winning going up - which is obviously what you want.

Murray is getting 20. He is about to have a green-light unlike ever before in his career.

JC, Dre, and Bogi will each hover around 15ppg. 

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2 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Murray is getting 20. He is about to have a green-light unlike ever before in his career.

JC, Dre, and Bogi will each hover around 15ppg. 

Murray had the ultimate green light last year being far and away his teams best player/playmaker.  His game will need to evolve just like Collins due to Trae's gravity.  Getting 20 a night on a bad team is very different than doing it on a good team.  Does not mean Murray is not a good player.  If Trae gets hurt then of course the landscape changes.

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7 hours ago, Packfill said:

Murray had the ultimate green light last year being far and away his teams best player/playmaker.  His game will need to evolve just like Collins due to Trae's gravity.  Getting 20 a night on a bad team is very different than doing it on a good team.  Does not mean Murray is not a good player.  If Trae gets hurt then of course the landscape changes.

The Spurs still run a movement based system. No Pop team is ever a one-man show. His usage was a career high last season, but he still had to get other guys involved. I see his assists dipping to maybe 6.5 per game, but his scoring staying above 20ppg, especially if he is getting a ton of minutes with the bench. 

Our offensive style is suited to feature a guards like Trae and Murray. That’s why this move is such a great fit. Murray will get plenty of opportunity to eat.

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