The Official NBASupes, Sothron, and theCampster Insider Thread - NBA 2022-23 Season

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He's their glue. Their biggest issue is Russell. 

He can't be there glue, if as Soth said..the team hates him, but the GM is saving face by keeping him.

Don't pile on the mistake with another mistake.

[NBASupes]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

He can't be there glue, if as Soth said..the team hates him, but the GM is saving face by keeping him.

Don't pile on the mistake with another mistake.

I don't have any contacts within any org to confirm how the locker room feels about any said player. So I can't speak to that. I can just speak to the fact that the way the coaches and how Ant responds to Rudy, he seems like their glue guy to me. 

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't have any contacts within any org to confirm how the locker room feels about any said player. So I can't speak to that. I can just speak to the fact that the way the coaches and how Ant responds to Rudy, he seems like their glue guy to me. 

NBA insider Brian Windhorst discussed the franchise's current predicament on a recent episode of his podcast. He stated that the team knew about Gobert's limitations before pushing through with the fateful trade with the Utah Jazz and that it understood that building chemistry with the "Stifle Tower" would take some time. However, his inability to protect the ball has apparently irritated some of those in the Wolves pack."But he has really frustrated the fans there and frustrated his teammates because earlier this season, he kept having turnovers," Windhorst said of the 10-year NBA veteran. "They would run plays, pick-and-rolls for him, and the ball would go through his hands. I don't have the number in front of me to tell you how many of those turnovers he had, but for the Wolves and their fans, it felt like 100."...
And his defense has fallen off

[JayBirdHawk]

@Sothron @NBASupes  @thecampster

I guess my question is "What exactly is the path the Hawks want for the rest of this season as we consider these trades?  Upgrades to be better, salary clearing etc?

1. Make the playoffs (#6 seed) and compete
2. Happy to make the playoffs from the play-in?
3. Shuffling the deck chairs to clear future salary and see where we end up: play-in or late lottery?
4. Players for picks?
5. Clear the team for best lottery odds?

[NBASupes]

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

NBA insider Brian Windhorst discussed the franchise's current predicament on a recent episode of his podcast. He stated that the team knew about Gobert's limitations before pushing through with the fateful trade with the Utah Jazz and that it understood that building chemistry with the "Stifle Tower" would take some time. However, his inability to protect the ball has apparently irritated some of those in the Wolves pack."But he has really frustrated the fans there and frustrated his teammates because earlier this season, he kept having turnovers," Windhorst said of the 10-year NBA veteran. "They would run plays, pick-and-rolls for him, and the ball would go through his hands. I don't have the number in front of me to tell you how many of those turnovers he had, but for the Wolves and their fans, it felt like 100."...
And his defense has fallen off

His defense hasn't fallen off. I watched their games and his defensive metrics are still high. Offensively, he could be better but his passing personnel downgraded from Mitchell and Conley to Edwards and Russell. Anderson been nothing less than a gem for them but as you can imagine, their high-end bench quality dropped the minute he entered the starting rotation.

Min issue this year has everything to do with the starting lineup when healthy performing poorly. Gobert units have been fine. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@Sothron @NBASupes  @thecampster

I guess my question is "What exactly is the path the Hawks want for the rest of this season as we consider these trades?  Upgrades to be better, salary clearing etc?

1. Make the playoffs (#6 seed) and compete
2. Happy to make the playoffs from the play-in?
3. Shuffling the deck chairs to clear future salary and see where we end up: play-in or late lottery?
4. Players for picks?
5. Clear the team for best lottery odds?

1. Playoffs

2-3. See Sothron 

4. They aren't pick hunting anymore unless it's to make up value. 

5. They aren't trying to be in the lottery if they don't have to 

[JayBirdHawk]

Question:
So what happens when the trade deadline passes and JC is still on the Hawks?
He has for sure going to be traded about 11x11 times now.  

[JeffS17]

Ben Simmons made a lot of sense this past offseason imo, but now that we have Murray here, he does not make any sense.  Are we trying to assemble a fitting team with chemistry or a team of Trae's friends?

[ATLHawks3]

Anyone willing to post a brief synopsis to this article? https://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-hawks/the-hawks-are-a-team-in-turmoil-again/6EBP5MF66BDLTIH72SLGY34YXY/

[marco102]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Gobert adds more winning value than KAT and KAT gets you a lot more value back than Gobert.

Let's hope the Twolves front office would continue to think this. 

I don't know how I feel about any of these trade suggestions.  

KAT - if you get Ben Simmons he and KAT would make an excellent pairing, but what do you do with OO and JJ? I think OO and KAT and JJ make an excellent trio too.

Embiid - You don't need Simmons and Embiid would fit perfectly with this team. However, he's getting up in age and is still an injury concern.  Again, what do you do with OO and JJ?  I'm not giving up AJ ( I know I'm crazy for that with the way Embiid has been playing) for Embiid, unless we have some other floor spacer in mind. 

JC - I really just want this to play out and see this team healthy.  His defense has been so good this year, but if he wants out of this shitshow, I don't blame him. 

If you're planning to keep JJ and OO, then KAT is most likely the best fit as far as the timeline and roster construction.

Edited January 16, 2023 by marco102

[Diesel]

Ok... I will play...  Karl Towns for $1000 bob...

If it were real, I would say that the move would be keep everything Pat until the offseason..

In July...

JC/AJ/Our First rounder for Karl Anthony Towns.

I don't see us giving up DJM... so maybe we draft for them...  For grins, let's say Nick Smith.

The question is... would we want the most injury prone front court this side of AD?

But..

CC/KAT/Hunter/DJM/Trae 

could make sense. 

We'd need some real shooters off the bench though..

All that said, I don't see the need to trade JC. 

[JeffS17]

Just now, Diesel said:

Ok... I will play...  Karl Towns for $1000 bob...

If it were real, I would say that the move would be keep everything Pat until the offseason..

In July...

JC/AJ/Our First rounder for Karl Anthony Towns.

I don't see us giving up DJM... so maybe we draft for them...  For grins, let's say Nick Smith.

The question is... would we want the most injury prone front court this side of AD?

But..

CC/KAT/Hunter/DJM/Trae 

could make sense. 

We'd need some real shooters off the bench though..

All that said, I don't see the need to trade JC. 

What?  There's no way we keep CC on the roster if we go get Towns.  Towns is not a PF as should be evident by the play in Minny right now -- that lineup would be replicating their mistakes lol... Also it's going to take a lot more than 1 first to bring KAT in.  He's the best shooting big of all time, and a top 5 offensive player in the league.  Playing with Trae will open peoples eyes to how talented he is.  Right now, he's in a small market and he's been on bad rosters.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

His defense hasn't fallen off. I watched their games and his defensive metrics are still high. Offensively, he could be better but his passing personnel downgraded from Mitchell and Conley to Edwards and Russell. Anderson been nothing less than a gem for them but as you can imagine, their high-end bench quality dropped the minute he entered the starting rotation.

Min issue this year has everything to do with the starting lineup when healthy performing poorly. Gobert units have been fine. 

 He is still a good defender but for what they gave up and for his salary.....

Via The Athletic:

Now, the bad news.

Gobert’s claim to fame has been his rim protection. On my “Points Saved Over Average” metric (described in part here), which uses NBA.com tracking data to estimate how many points more or less an opponent would have scored at the rim with an unnamed average rim-protecting center standing in for a given player, Gobert has been in the top nine (of around 70 minutes qualifying centers) in each of his eight previous seasons as a full-time starter, including first five times and second twice. This year, he is 24th (of 61). Elite rim protectors generally average around two points saved/100 more than positional average. Gobert hit that mark seven times and has never been less than a full point saved/100 above average. This year he is down to 0.3/100.

A look at his per game numbers helps illustrate the apparent decline. 

He has already logged as many “negative” rim protection games in 2022-23 as he did all of last season, and more than twice as many as in the whole of 2020-21.

Some of the decline has come in terms of not being in position to contest at the rim quite as frequently. 

Much more worrying has been the effectiveness of those contests. Gobert is allowing 60.2 percent at the rim, by far a career worst, and well off the 50.5 percent he allowed across his days as Utah’s starting 5. This isn’t the culmination of years of decline either. The past three seasons saw Gobert allow 50.2, 50.1, and a near career-best 49.3 percent last season. 

[Diesel]

Just now, JeffS17 said:

What?  There's no way we keep CC on the roster if we go get Towns.  Towns is not a PF as should be evident by the play in Minny right now -- that lineup would be replicating their mistakes lol... Also it's going to take a lot more than 1 first to bring KAT in.  He's the best shooting big of all time, and a top 5 offensive player in the league.  Playing with Trae will open peoples eyes to how talented he is.  Right now, he's in a small market and he's been on bad rosters.

I disagree.   I don't think Towns would flourish as a C the way he could flourish as a PF.  Towns is a career 39.5% 3 pt shooter.  Last years he shot 41% on ~5 three a game.   Not only is he a PF, he's a bit of a Stretch 4.   Nobody is unaware of his talent.   He's just not going to be prosperous if you stick him down low and expect him to produce. 

 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 He is still a good defender but for what they gave up and for his salary.....

Via The Athletic:

Now, the bad news.

Gobert’s claim to fame has been his rim protection. On my “Points Saved Over Average” metric (described in part here), which uses NBA.com tracking data to estimate how many points more or less an opponent would have scored at the rim with an unnamed average rim-protecting center standing in for a given player, Gobert has been in the top nine (of around 70 minutes qualifying centers) in each of his eight previous seasons as a full-time starter, including first five times and second twice. This year, he is 24th (of 61). Elite rim protectors generally average around two points saved/100 more than positional average. Gobert hit that mark seven times and has never been less than a full point saved/100 above average. This year he is down to 0.3/100.

A look at his per game numbers helps illustrate the apparent decline. 

He has already logged as many “negative” rim protection games in 2022-23 as he did all of last season, and more than twice as many as in the whole of 2020-21.

Some of the decline has come in terms of not being in position to contest at the rim quite as frequently. 

Much more worrying has been the effectiveness of those contests. Gobert is allowing 60.2 percent at the rim, by far a career worst, and well off the 50.5 percent he allowed across his days as Utah’s starting 5. This isn’t the culmination of years of decline either. The past three seasons saw Gobert allow 50.2, 50.1, and a near career-best 49.3 percent last season. 

His metrics have improved a lot over the last three weeks like Trae's has. You can blame that on KAT or you can blame offensive issues on Clint for Trae, at the end of the day, Gobert defense has been back in the last three weeks. 

The trade just happened. They haven't figured out fit yet. They just moved Anderson to the starting five and been much better as a team with that move. 

[bleachkit]

9 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Ben Simmons made a lot of sense this past offseason imo, but now that we have Murray here, he does not make any sense.  Are we trying to assemble a fitting team with chemistry or a team of Trae's friends?

Trae's friends. You have to make your superstar as comfortable as possible. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I disagree.   I don't think Towns would flourish as a C the way he could flourish as a PF.  Towns is a career 39.5% 3 pt shooter.  Last years he shot 41% on ~5 three a game.   Not only is he a PF, he's a bit of a Stretch 4.   Nobody is unaware of his talent.   He's just not going to be prosperous if you stick him down low and expect him to produce. 

 

KAT is a 5 on defense. His best value is paint protection. He can't switch well at all. He would have more issues fitting with Clint than he would with Gobert and we all see how that's coming together 

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

Trae's friends. You have to make your superstar as comfortable as possible. 

All of these guys are Trae's friends. 

[kg01]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Question:
So what happens when the trade deadline passes and JC is still on the Hawks?
He has for sure going to be traded about 11x11 times now.  

Same thing that happens with IND on Turner who's been 'definitely' traded like 837 times. 

[kg01]

4 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Trae's friends. You have to make your superstar as comfortable as possible. 

Yup.  That's why I'm your friend.  I don't wanna get traded, superstar. 

[ShooterSays]

A KAT / OO17 front court would be something. Hope we can make that happen.