Official Game Thread: Cavaliers at Hawks

[terrell]

10 hours ago, Diesel said:

@NBASupes

you are the only one who thinks that Dre' is a great defender.  We honestly walk around on egg shells with him because you have put him in your Al Horford category.  Yes, he has the size.  He's a big wing.  But in actuallity, he's another Marvin Williams.   He has the size and could have the ability but he lacks the stuff in between.    He's not aggressive.  He butterfingers a lot of balls.   He runs into traffic with no plan.. and On defense, he's average to slightly above average...  But you make him out to be "the glove" and then you start this downriding posts that says otherwise.  

 

You know what happened this year?  Bey Showed up.  Bey showed up and being a year younger than Dre... Bey showed that aggressiveness that we wanted to see from Dre.   Bey goes in and tries.    He plays physically.  He's not butteryfingered.. he gets in there and he scraps.  When was the last time that you saw Dre' Scrap.  Most of the time, Dre is on the floor playing victim.

Now.. Bey is not the defender that Dre is yet.  and Bey doesn't have as much size.  But Bey can get there.  There is nothing prohibiting him from getting there.   Even you have recognized how much better aggressively that Bey is than Dre' which is why I believe you started saying.. we should keep Both. 

But if we keep both, the question will be.. Why are we paying Dre' 90 Million dollars again.   This is Marvin Williams all over. 

I have no loyalty to draft picks.  Just because we drafted a player doesn't mean that he's great and doesn't give him a Hawks for life pass.  At some point, Dre is going to have to start Carrying his weight on both sides of the ball. 

You have cried about needed a #1 option.  Well maybe that was @terrell .  However, I see it as we need a strong #2 and #3 option.   It's a big three world... and Dre is in perfect position to be the #3 option... but he doesn't grasp it.   He prefers to either shoot the three ball or to run into traffic and butterfinger the ball to the other team.   Then roll on the floor and wonder why the refs didn't give him a call. 

When Dre didn't play the other night.  Matt-Hues came in and showed more aggression and smarter play.

Carry-on.

 

 

Nah that was Supes.  

 

 

[terrell]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

I don't think his metrics would change that significantly. 

The problem.  he does nothing to disrupt.   Most defensive metrics like DFRTs...

have a component of steals, blocks, and defensive FG%.   Dre does very little in those areas.  Then there's a component of rebounds.  Dre' is not a good rebounder either.   So people that are Dre' proponents say.. He plays good "Positional defense".   And yes, he does stand in front of his man well and yes, he doesn't foul... and yes, he is good for stopping his man from just taking a lane without a switch...    But he doesn't just stop anybody.   The most that we hope for is that Dre's man is hindered and pass the ball off.   That's not going to effect possession.  That's not going to effect DFG%.  Or steals or blocks.   He's not really disrupting.   I don't know what you call it... but he's not Bad but he's not good either. 

 

 

I recall one of those... I'm like.. JUST GRAB IT!!

 

[sturt]

From The Athletic...

 

[AHF]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

Name one player that Hunter guards that didn't get his average or better?  Just give me one. 

 

Luka Doncic head to head vs Hunter is 22 points on 39.6% FG% shooting.  Career average is 27.6 points per  game.

Anthony Edward’s head to head vs Hunter is 17.2 PPG vs career average 21.7 PPG.

That is two.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Luka Doncic head to head vs Hunter is 22 points on 39.6% FG% shooting.  Career average is 27.6 points per  game.

Anthony Edward’s head to head vs Hunter is 17.2 PPG vs career average 21.7 PPG.

That is two.

Luka vs. Hunter = Luka 30 pts. 

Edwards vs. Hunter = Edwards 32 pts. 

Those are this years games...  What games are you talking about AHF??

Oh.. Career Averages? No...   Right now, today... This year... Hunter's defense is not holding these guys. 

 

[AHF]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

Luka vs. Hunter = Luka 30 pts. 

Edwards vs. Hunter = Edwards 32 pts. 

Those are this years games...  What games are you talking about AHF??

Oh.. Career Averages? No...   Right now, today... This year... Hunter's defense is not holding these guys. 

 

If you are talking about single game performance rather than career then your sample size goes from really small to single game territory.  I'm not going to include people who only scored like 1 point under their season average but here are some games where that happened in the first 18 games of the season (these are in chronological order even though I'm not writing down the dates for every game):

Franz Wagner - 8 points; average 19 PPG

Gordon Hayward - 12 points, average 15 PPG

Jayson Tatum - 19 points, average 30 PPG

Evan Mobley - 10 points, average 16 PPG

Keegan Murray 4 points / Harrison Barnes 8 points (average 12 and 15)  [not sure which one he primarily guarded]

[ShooterSays]

Luka averages 33. Hunter held him to 30. 

[AHF]

Just now, ShooterSays said:

Luka averages 33. Hunter held him to 30. 

That actual does meet D's challenge criteria, doesn't it!

[JeffS17]

19 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Nice find!   So next season OO will shoot 40% from 3 and he has to average 1 three per game at least?  

1-3 attempts, yes!

[macdaddy]

37 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

1-3 attempts, yes!

Yes attempts!  sorry.  Well normally i'd say you're not going to make it going from .1 to 1 but bringing in Quin may be your saving grace.  If we keep Capela and not JC then you may be golden.  

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Yes attempts!  sorry.  Well normally i'd say you're not going to make it going from .1 to 1 but bringing in Quin may be your saving grace.  If we keep Capela and not JC then you may be golden.  

OO also has to shoot 40%+ lol...

It was a hot take but I have an affinity for high risk low reward bets

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

OO also has to shoot 40%+ lol...

It was a hot take but I have an affinity for high risk low reward bets

So @JeffS17 and @bleachkit - obviously the 40% 3pt shooting for the 2023-24 season is a core part of this but I am not clear on how the 1-3 3PTA  fits in.  

3 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

1-3 attempts, yes!

If OO shoots less than 1 3PTA/gm is that a win for bleach or does that mean the bet is off?

If OO shoots more than 3PTA/gm, is that a push and the bet is off or is that a win for one of you or should this just be read as 1+ 3PTA/gm?

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

So @JeffS17 and @bleachkit - obviously the 40% 3pt shooting for the 2023-24 season is a core part of this but I am not clear on how the 1-3 3PTA  fits in.  

If OO shoots less than 1 3PTA/gm is that a win for bleach or does that mean the bet is off?

If OO shoots more than 3PTA/gm, is that a push and the bet is off or is that a win for one of you or should this just be read as 1+ 3PTA/gm?

@bleachkit can legislate however -- the spirit of it would probably be OO has to shoot at least 1 3PA per game and hit at 40% clip, but I don't think we formally agreed on terms or anything from the thread, and it was more of a casual disagreement on his development/utilization

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

@bleachkit can legislate however -- the spirit of it would probably be OO has to shoot at least 1 3PA per game and hit at 40% clip, but I don't think we formally agreed on terms or anything from the thread, and it was more of a casual disagreement on his development/utilization

If he shoots less than 1 3PA that should be a win for me. The spirit of the bet is a disagreement about whether OO becomes a three point shooter at all, much less a good one. 

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

If he shoots less than 1 3PA that should be a win for me. The spirit of the bet is a disagreement about whether OO becomes a three point shooter at all, much less a good one. 

Yes I agree.  And if it's more than 1 3PA but lower than 40%, you also win.

[Diesel]

32 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Yes I agree.  And if it's more than 1 3PA but lower than 40%, you also win.

What would @bleachkit win.... because

[Diesel]

20 hours ago, sturt said:

From The Athletic...

 

It's great news that Trae likes Snyder. 

They are on the right foot if that's the case because Trae can still learn a lot. 

 

It's hard not to look at our Hawks and peek at the Mavs.   I like our situation better.   Even though we're the middest team in the NBA. 

 

[JTB]

Well at least we know we’re winning Sundays game now.

 

The trend continues.

[Gray Mule]

Yep.  Can't get much better than even.  Hawks have averaged 117.9 points per game.  They have give up 117.9 per game.  Gotta win Sunday to keep that record going - - Within 1 game of .500!

[NBASupes]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:51 AM, Diesel said:

@NBASupes

you are the only one who thinks that Dre' is a great defender.  We honestly walk around on egg shells with him because you have put him in your Al Horford category.  Yes, he has the size.  He's a big wing.  But in actuallity, he's another Marvin Williams.   He has the size and could have the ability but he lacks the stuff in between.    He's not aggressive.  He butterfingers a lot of balls.   He runs into traffic with no plan.. and On defense, he's average to slightly above average...  But you make him out to be "the glove" and then you start this downriding posts that says otherwise.  

 

You know what happened this year?  Bey Showed up.  Bey showed up and being a year younger than Dre... Bey showed that aggressiveness that we wanted to see from Dre.   Bey goes in and tries.    He plays physically.  He's not butteryfingered.. he gets in there and he scraps.  When was the last time that you saw Dre' Scrap.  Most of the time, Dre is on the floor playing victim.

Now.. Bey is not the defender that Dre is yet.  and Bey doesn't have as much size.  But Bey can get there.  There is nothing prohibiting him from getting there.   Even you have recognized how much better aggressively that Bey is than Dre' which is why I believe you started saying.. we should keep Both. 

But if we keep both, the question will be.. Why are we paying Dre' 90 Million dollars again.   This is Marvin Williams all over. 

I have no loyalty to draft picks.  Just because we drafted a player doesn't mean that he's great and doesn't give him a Hawks for life pass.  At some point, Dre is going to have to start Carrying his weight on both sides of the ball. 

You have cried about needed a #1 option.  Well maybe that was @terrell .  However, I see it as we need a strong #2 and #3 option.   It's a big three world... and Dre is in perfect position to be the #3 option... but he doesn't grasp it.   He prefers to either shoot the three ball or to run into traffic and butterfinger the ball to the other team.   Then roll on the floor and wonder why the refs didn't give him a call. 

When Dre didn't play the other night.  Matt-Hues came in and showed more aggression and smarter play.

Carry-on.

 

 

A lot of bad hot takes in this one. 

1. Never once have I said Dre is great on defense. All I've said is his defensive versatility is elite. That's it. That's his only elite trait on defense and that has a lot of value in the modern NBA. It wouldn't be that valuable in 1994 which is the era you seem to be stuck in but it is in 2023. That's why he got that market value contract.

The issue with you for Dre is you living in 1994 and I live in 2023. You [need to] understand why defensive versatility is critical in today's NBA and why its more valuable than lockdown defense which is not even capable in 2023 with how skilled the scorers and shooters are. 

2. Never once have I put him anywhere near the class of Al Horford on offense or defense. Once again, you are lying but that's not surprising. What is, @warcore, @terrell and some other scrub liked this BS ass post. That's disappointing and I expect better from them. They aren't bad posters at all. 

3. His offensive is decent for a starter but he's 5th option at best. If he didn't have the value he has on defense for the modern NBA, it would be hard to justify him as a starter. 

4. Marvin Williams is a 4 in the modern NBA. When you mention Marvin's name in comparison to Dre, it [is a very bad comparison and doesn't reflect his role in the modern game]. 

5. Bey isn't just a bad perimeter defender but when he's starting, it might as well be an Olay line at the 2 or 3. As a big wing or 4 defender, it's rough but it's not bad. Saying he should start at the 3 is how you get Mikal Bridges dropping an efficient 40+ on us. It was like your foolishness was addressed literally a night later. Of course it was going to be[]. 

6. Most of the next couple of paragraphs [don't add to the discussion]. 

7. Dre is a 5th option on offense for a contender. He just needs a lot more touches which has improved this year but he's not a high end scoring option at all. 

[AHF edits]