Diesel, you've convinced me.

[AHF]

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I don't see that kind of desire streaming from Marvin... It's insulting to list him with Jordan and Bird...

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Diesel - Do you always try to create false issues to redirect the conversation? I never compared Marvin's mental state with Jordan's or Bird's. I listed them as examples of the strongest mental players in the league over the last 20 years.The only comparison I made for Marvin was with TMac's mental state, and I told you I would opt for what I've seen from Marvin over what I've seen from a quiter like TMac. That is it.I haven't seen enough of Marvin to know whether he is a competitor on the level of Jordan and Bird. The fact is that I seriously doubt he is on that level and I can't think of anyone in the NBA on that level right now.

[thesheedera]

First of all, sorry for the length. Could have written more to tell you the truth. I had to register here because of Diesel's comments about Marvin's competitiveness. You clearly didn't follow UNC closely this year, and that's fine, I don't expect everyone to be a Carolina fan. But had you paid attention to their season, a couple things would have been obvious to you. Here are just a few:1) Marvin didn't start, but he was the first sub, and usually came in for Jawad or May within 3 or 4 minutes of a game. By the end of the season, he was constantly on the floor at the end, in the place of a seasoned 4 year starter (Jawad). It was obvious to everyone that Marvin had more talent and competitiveness than Jawad, but he was also young in the system, and had to learn what to do out there from Jawad and Sean. Marvin took a backseat not because of talent, but because of experience. and just because he gives pc answers doesn't mean he was pleased by sittying on the bench. He just made the most of it, and he knew he was getting plenty of minutes to do his thing. Name another 6th man in college basketball that averaged his numbers off the bench. Not easy to do. Jawad and Jackie Manuel were not as talented as guys like Marvin and possibly Reyshawn Terry, but they started, because Roy knew they deserved it after enduring the 3 most painful years of Carolina basketball, and they understood the system.2) All of Marvin's teammates and the former Heels that were in town for the summer last year talked about Marvin's fire in preseason scrimmages. Stackhouse in particular was quoted several times talking about how ferocious of a player he was even then, before he'd played a single college game. Sean May NEVER went after rebounds in his first 3 seasons like he did this season. Not even close. Guess what happens when you add a kid like Marvin to the mix? The daily intensity level rises in practices, and you get more out of the guys you already have. Marvin gave the team a spark it didn't have before he got to Chapel Hill. It wasn't his "numbers", it was his attitude that I believe put the team over the top. And I LOVE the other guys on the team. And I do think Marvin has weaknesses, but attitude and competitiveness aren't his weaknesses, they're his strengths. Luckily for the Hawks, his weaknesses can be improved with coaching and time in the gym.3) The bit about wanting to have fun over winning was from little league baseball, give the kid a break, I don't think a 19 year old's competitive nature should be judged by how he reacted when he was 10, in a completely different sport. That's just a garbage argument. The story is meant to show that the guy has a huge heart, not a negative thing. He certainly didn't take himself out of any games in college, especially the Duke and Illinois games, when had had the winning buckets in both. Those shots were tip ins, being in the right place at the right time, attacking the basket after a shot went up, and beating everyone to the ball. Not exactly passive plays.4) He's not polished around the rim, but he's the most aggressive guy we had inside since Jamison, maybe even Rasheed. When he learns a few moves to add to his effort, he'll be very dangerous down there. Even in transition (like against FSU, going through a guy to finish a dunk when it looked like an obvious layup) he attacks the goal. The only finesse part of his game is his outside touch and his passing. Everything else is beastly.5) He will improve, because he works hard and he' a smart kid. Roy Williams said if he could coach 5 Marvin Williamses out there that he'd coach for free. Also has called him the most unique player he's ever coached. oy's not the kind of guy that blows hot air up his player's aises. He means what he said. 6) Marvion does things on his own schedule. Not playing for the better Seattle program was just like choosing college over the NBA. Its not because he's afrai of competition, he just does what feels right. All season long us Heels fans thought he would be around another year. He repeatedly said he wanted to stay in college, his dad did too. Marvin realized along the way that he was ready for the NBA, and made up his mind quickly after the season ended. He still has plenty to work on, but decided to take it to the show. We hould be glad he did. He's not one to make a decision based on outside influences, this came from his own mind. Marvin's ready for the NBA, and us Hawks fans are lucky that he is. He couldn't be a star in every game, he had 3 other lottery picks around him who could all average 20/game on other teams. He also had 3 seniors around him with enough skills to deserve time, and who had big games. Its not like he wasn't a factor. Even when his box score wasn't amazing, he made huge plays in every big game.Marvin does have superstar potential, eveyone who has coached him, played with him, played against him and watched him as a fan sees it, and soon you will too.I think he'll be an all star eventually. He's different, he's unique. Don't take snippets of stories or quotes and pigeon-hole the kid, just wait a little while and you'll understand that he's a very special player and person.Anyway, not trying to attack with my first post, but I am very confident that you will agree about this kid after he gets some time to learn the NBA game. I feel strongly about it, and had to say something. Go Hawks.

[Lascar78]

I nominate this for post of the month

[drzachary]

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I nominate this for post of the month

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I wonder if the Unleaded dismissal of it will be as entertaining.. Stay tuned!

[Traceman]

[drzachary]

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3) The bit about wanting to have fun over winning was from little league baseball, give the kid a break, I don't think a 19 year old's competitive nature should be judged by how he reacted when he was 10, in a completely different sport.

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Agreed! In my opinion, a ten-year-old who values winning over fun is more likely to have mental problems than vice-versa.

[thesheedera]

http://www.uncbasketball.com/ic/marvin020605.jpg memories...

[drzachary]

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http://www.uncbasketball.com/ic/marvin020605.jpgmemories...

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I dunno.. he looks kind of soft there. You can tell he's probably thinking about Rugrats while he's dunking.Soft, I tell you! No fire at all!

[Traceman]

[thesheedera]

and in sequence:http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/20/207572.jpghttp://media.scout.com/Media/Image/20/207573.jpghttp://media.scout.com/Media/Image/20/207574.jpgthe kid will bring it hard, wish the season started tomorrow

[thesheedera]

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/19/192792.jpg http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/19/194521.jpg http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/19/195377.jpg http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/20/204133.jpg http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/20/204682.jpg http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/20/206091.jpg http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/20/207516.jpg

[Traceman]

[drzachary]

you decide to put a sticky on this post.--You're reading Hawksquawk when suddenly it hits you like a sack of bricks: deja-vu! The thread you're reading about Marvin Williams contains nothing new and nothing worthwhile, except perhaps some lame attempts at comedy by a few posters.You realize that intractible views cannot be transformed into anything else. No omelette can you make from hard-boiled opinons. Reading this older post, you realize that Graymule's original topic left nothing unstated, and there is nothing more to add.With a sigh, you admit the futility of the arguments in which you now engage, and plead to the adminstrators to help eradicate the Moebius strip of polemics.

[mrhonline]

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except perhaps some lame attempts at comedy by a few posters.

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I went looking for where I said something in this thread...I guess it wasn't me this time.

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Reading this older post, you realize that Graymule's original topic left nothing unstated, and there is nothing more to add.

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Completely concur.

[Diesel]

Greymule, i hope you're still convinced!!

[Gray Mule]

I'm still convinced that we don't have the next Lebron

James on our roster. There's only one.

I'm still convinced that Marvin Williams will be a very

good player for the Hawks.

Did Hawks make a fatal mistake by not drafting a P.G.?

Not convinced on this yet. Sure, right now we could

use a great P.G. No doubt about that. Still, looking

at what has happened to the Hawks this season and the

entire history of this year's draft choices far from

complete, we have yet a long journey before all the

counting is done.

Now, we wait.

[Diesel]

This is a classic thread... Should be revisited from time to time to see truth and what truth looks like.

[drzachary]

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This is a classic thread... Should be revisited from time to time to see truth and what truth looks like.

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(Diesel, casting "Animate Dead" on the Marvin thread)

[DrReality]

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This is a classic thread... Should be revisited from time to time to see truth and what truth looks like.

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You've had this saved under favorites for months to resurrect and throw it in the face of . . . . . .

[Diesel]

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Marvin hasn't shown any killer instinct on the court. The personality of a superstar is KNOWN... And in 99% of the time, that guy is a guy who lives, eats, breathes, sleeps Basketball and Competition... Marvin doesn't. That guy 99 percent of the time is a guy who wants to be on the floor with the ball in his hand in the big game with the destiny of his team in his hands... Marvin doesn't. In all actually, Marvin could be the next Shane Battier. A player with all the tools to be good but not the personality to be a superstar...