yardbird

I commented occasionally at one time, but my day job was too demanding for me to do more. For what it's worth, I spend a lot more time reading here (looking for news about the Hawks more than speculation) than I spend on Facebook. And I'm a big fan of the Squawk and the Hawks who attends every game unless I'm traveling, in section 117, right next to the Kia 6th Man section. Just not big into commenting, probably because I'm a baby boomer. Really just wanted folks to know that some Squawkers do attend games.

While I rarely post here (little time for it), I read regularly for many, many years. I've had full season tickets since the year the Hawks took Boston to 7 games in the playoffs.

My recollection is that Gasol wanted the culture of a true international city that was also a contender, so San Antonio and OKC were behind Chicago since NY couldn't afford him.  Funny thing is, the Hawks traded his draft pick for Shareef way back when and could have had him the whole time instead, remember?

I've attended 75% of games over the past 4 years as a season ticket holder. Crowd support actually wasn't bad last night, though there were the usual star-chasers (to see CP3 and Blake) on hand. Who'd of thought the Clippers could instantly develop a national following? Only in the ATL. It is an expensive outing, both in money and time. I'm sure many fans end up watching from the comfort of home, as I do when I can't make it due to scheduling or when I'd rather be with the family since my 9-year old can't go on school nights (he was there last night, though!).

I'm not into moral victories, but under the circumstances we played well. If Josh hadn't gotten hurt, we'd be up 2 to 1, maybe 3 to 0. And winning 3 in a row (assuming we don"t win tomorrow) with 2 at Philips is not out of the question, especially if Josh and Za Za can get back. If Marvin had contributed any offense at all, Hawks win last night. Same effort with Josh and better Marvin can get it done tomorrow, just don't be intimidated. I'd love to make the C's pay for their arrogance in giving us homecourt (or more likely assuming they could win it with their subs).

One of the main reasons for the Hawks success is our ability to switch everything. Marvin is KEY to our ability to switch, especially on the 2, 3 and 4 spots. There aren't enough shots for Marvin to be a major factor offensively, especially with the 4th quarter minutes going to Jamal. Marvin is solid.

And BTW, the end of the game last night was AWESOME at Philips, if your weren't there, you missed the game of the year. I'd resigned myself to losing down 4 with 10 seconds left, AMAZING comeback. Don't forget to credit Horford's two clutch free throws at the end, prior to Jamal's put back of Josh's missed free throw. Many players made clutch plays to enable the comeback.

Good analyis.

I think what we're facing against Orlando, comes down to a matchup problem. You donmt want their gunners to get wide open looks, because they can quickly blow you out if they're knocking down shots. But on the flipside, Dwight can dominate a game if he's assertive in attacking the basket.

For a team like us, we can't really afford Horford and especially Josh to be in foul trouble, so I guess that's why we double Howard every chance we get, and force someone else to beat us. Zaza is usually good in banging against Dwight, but even he wasn't effective in that game.

I think why Orlando fell behind by so much, is because Dwight wasn't attacking, and freely passing the ball out to all those gunners, who weren't making anything. I think Carter was 4 - 12 FG in the first half, while Dwight only had 3 FG attempts.

In the 2nd half, it was all Dwight on both ends on the floor, like you said.

I agree with you in the fact that we may not have a major problem with any other team in the league. But Orlando right now is our kryptonite.

If we would've beat Orlando, tonight's game was the one I expected a letdown in. But we bounced back and got a nice win on the road against Philly.

So what does that make us?

12 - 4 . . right with the Magic . . and still with one of the best records in the NBA.

Contrary to popular belief, the sky does not fall because the Magic takes us out back and beats us up. All it means is that we can't beat the Magic up . . and probably the Lakers ( because they present the same type of matchup problems ).

But we can beat everyone else up.

I am optimistic about our start, but I want to see how we play this month against a supposedly weaker schedule and if we can consistently play well against Boston and Cleveland, as well as find a way to compete against the Magic next game. Then I'll have an opinion about how we stack up overall. It's a long 82 games, and we're only 20% in (but 12-4 is a great start). Glad you have a steady, long-term view and don't over react to the inevitable occasional disappointing performance.

They sure didn't get blown out by 17 points. That's 4 times in a row that this team has basically been blown out by Orlando. This team has been missing shots outside of dunks and layups all year. Poor outside shooting has plagued this team so far. Josh Smith's play was the reason for the teams success, but now he is regressing more toward his typical play. It doesn't look like Al and Josh can sustain the play that they started off with.

We agree, Orlando is a problem for us. Remember a couple of years ago, it seemed like Josh had Dwight's number typically outplaying him and leading the Hawks to wins. Well, Dwight mature since then and uses his superior strength (and his superior jumping ability, which is rare for anyone to say against Josh) to dominate.

While I think Josh and Al have a legit shot at averaging double doubles, at least one of them with the other close, they won't do it every night. If both come close against Orlando, and we have legitimate games from Joe plus anyone of Bibby, Marvin, or Crawford (25ish from Joe and 12 to 20 from any two of the others), we should have a shot at being competitive with Orlando. Hopefully, we continue our confidence against Boston and establish some against Cleveland.

Dwight didn't sto Miami from beating them... What about that loss to NO? This team has been playing sloppy since the Rockets game.

For Miami to win, it took Orlando uncharacteristically missing 5 of their last 8 free throws, including two in a row by an 80%+ career free throw shooter, and a very questionable last minute put back on a short shot by Wade that many think was offensive goal tending. Plus, Miami was making 4th quarter shots while the Hawks missed everything in the 2nd half (I know, I suffered through it in the stands while waiting for our typical 4th quarter defensive intensity and clutch shooting). In addition, I don't think Orlando was focused on Miami they way they were against us: Miami is not nearly the competitor to Orlando that Atlanta is (going back to Dwight & Josh's diaper days); Orlando did not expect a serious challenge from the struggling Heat in Orlando; and the Thanksgiving day game was 'send a message to the world time': national television, with Orlando either leaving as an elite team or one that lost back-to-back games, ending their streak. Unfortunately, Atlanta sent the wrong message to the world itself. Only way to rectify is a couple of strong nationally televised performances PLUS at least a season split with Orlando. That last one will be tough.

And this is specifically targeted to all of you who feel that this team isn't worth watching, simply because we melt down against the "elite" teams. Seriously . . just save yourself some torment, and quit watching the Hawks.

I know people are frustrated by last night's epic meltdown, but that's simply the way basketball goes sometimes. Ask Cleveland fans when they started 0 - 2. After about the 8 minute mark in the 3rd qtr, this team simply couldn't make a shot. This wasn't like the Laker collapse, in which the Lakers turned up the intensity, and basically punked the whole team. Last night was simply about the Hawks missing shots . . plain and simple.

That . . and "Dad" scoring 15 4th quarter points.

But to all of you who are going to continue to cry every time we don't beat an elite team, and use that as your justification to not go to games, or to not support the team, you should simply turn in your Hawks ticket, and follow another team.

Seriously.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't be pissed at last night. You should. But you knew the deal with this team before the season started. We've overcome every hurdle, except this one. That DOES make us a good team, but maybe not a great team.

Remember folks . . we won 37 games a mere 2 years ago. 37. So don't act like a Hawk team that is on its way to winning 50+ games, and probably winning 30+ games at home, isn't worth watching. And if the only time you cn get jacked up about a game, is when we play the big boys, then that's another issue in itself.

Cry about this loss if you want, but this team has to immeadiately bounce back and play 2 road games against Philly and Detroit within the next 3 days. Win those 2 games, and we finish a brutal October/November stretch with a 13 - 4 record . . . which will still be one of the best records in the league. Even a 12 - 5 record would be ahead of everyone's expectations before the season started.

But if a loss like this is going to have you question your fandom, just save yourself the grief. Turn in your Hawks bandwagon ticket right now. Do yourself a favor and don't torment yourself any longer.

I for one, agee with you Northcyde. I swapped by 2 season tix for 4 to bring my out of town brother & his girlfriend to the game. I was very dissappointed with the 2nd half, to say the least. But the reality is that I have been very concerned about our match ups with Orlando since last year. They have a force in the middle in Dwight and lights out spot up shooters, creating a damned if we do and damned if we don't situation. Swapping Turk for Vince and Anderson exacerbated the problem. The fact is, outside of the last 6 minutes of the first half last night, those matchup discrepancies were evident throughout the game.

In the 2nd half, Dwight shut down the lane. Those JJ teardrop drives that usually save us when we desperately need a bucket in a drought were being swatted like flies, or so altered that they had no chance. When we couldn't hit a perimeter shot either, and Anthony Johnson (who was the only Magic player it made sense to leave open) was on fire, essentially game over. In addition, we had zero second chance shots in the second half, while Orlando seemed to clean up, including several fortuitous long rebounds that bounced their way.

I might like our chances against any other team in the league better than against the Magic. Shame they're in our division, but definitely gives us something to shoot for. Take solace in that we're 11-4 aganist a brutal starting schedule and about to hit an easier spell. If we take care of business against allegedly weaker teams in December, we could still have the top record in the East New Years Day. What that record might mean against Orlando, Cleveland, LA, Boston, San Antonio & Denver in the regular season and playoffs is yet to be determined, and I look forward to seeing if the Hawks can man up.

Remember Joe calling out the team about players trying to do more than their role? This team doesn't need significantly more points from Marvin as much as it does his defense and rebounding. He's not shooting as well as in years past, but it's pretty early in the season, so that will probably change over the long haul. Additional offense from Marvin is a bonus at this point.

Stop nitpicking Marvin 9 games into the season and be happy the overall team is in a good position. There will be games when he'll hit a clutch shot at a key point that is key to a win. He's a solid player, if not spectacular, and he contributes to the overall success of the team. Go Hawks!

We all know Woodys aversion to rookies. I think he wanted this win badly and kept the veteran guards in for that reason. My thinking is in our scheme (Woodys scheme) Craw can play PG or SG just as effectively on the offensive end.

If Crawford and Teague continue to play steady as a one two punch over the next few months, I honestly think Bibby could be used off the bench. But that would require Woodson to grow some; so I would not expect it to happen anytime soon. Crawfords defense is no worse than Bibbys, it just comes down to if he continues to play under control and keeps his bad shot selection down. Teague needs minutes and a DNP for such a promising rookie is just another sign of Woody being inept when it comes to our rotation.

We only have four decent guards and it was not like Bibby had his A game. There is just no excuse for Teague not getting around five minutes in the 1st half and five in the second...Who really gives a crap if Bibby only gets 25 minutes if he is not on his best game?

Overly critical of Woody. Last night was a huge win for the psyche of the team, and hopefully gives some confidence going into Boston, Cleveland and Orlando. The game was close with leads changing hands down the end, and getting Teague a few minutes was not worth risking a difference in the outcome. If Teague's confidence is hurt by sitting yesterday, he won't be long for the league anyway (I think he will, but if he's that fragile, he certainly won't). I have no problem with the playing time and, if Sacremento somehow makes tonight a tough game, I'd be okay with Teague getting a DNP tonight if it means a win. I do want to see him develop and get time over the season, but never at the expense of a win regardless of who we play. If his time had to come next year, and a veteran guard rotation translates to a rise to true contender status, fine with me. On a good team, it's not about development, it's about wins. I doubt Phil Jackson would have played Teague last night either (how many DNPs did Javaris Crittendon get in his rookie year, when the Lakers were in roughly the same stature as this year's Hawks?).

Corrected. It is a pretty safe bet that it wasn't the Memphis GM that came up with the trade kicker. It was almost certainly Smiths agent who probably wasn't happy with the Hawks refusal to negotiate.

If Smith is traded the Hawks might have to include some cash to take the sting out of the trade kicker.

If they are shopping smith i seriously doubt it would be for a salary dump since his contract isn't bad relative to his production and talent.

Or, Smith could waive the trade kicker if we sent him to a team he liked. Probably just insurance against getting sent to Utah . . .

By the way, I don't believe it's anything but speculation. No way it's a salary dump, we're already one of the better positioned teams salary wise. It'd have to be for talent or it'd never happen.

look at the rockets, after they traded away alston.. brooks stepped up and was a key role to their team taking the lakers to 7..you have to be on the court to have an impact

law should get an actual chance to control the offense before we declare him a bust..

Blaming Acie's situation on Woody is inappropriate. As noted previously, when given the chance to run the team, primarily in his rookie season, Acie was not effective enough (or injured) to be trusted with a team trying to make the playoffs for the first time in a decade. This year, he was not in the rotation because Flip was essential as our only source of consistent points off the bench. Who among us would have played Acie before Bibby or Flip this year?

If he works at it this summer and in training camp, and either Flip or Bibby is gone next year without the infusion of a talented veteran, Acie will get his shot at serious minutes IF he can stay healthy and isn't traded. If Sund respects his talent (I assume he watches practices too), Acie won't leave this year for nothing since he's already under a reasonable contract. When his shot comes, I hope he earns it.

Only players on that list I would like : Ellis, Butler or Miller..

I want Gortat from Orlando. Making less than 800K and not signed for next year. Orlando couldnt match a 4-5 million offer for him, and he looks solid when on the floor. Thoughts?

Grumble...grumble...grumble... I will give Woodson some credit. Afterall, he gets respect around the league for his defensive gameplan. To be honest, I've never worried that much about his approach to defense. We look good so far though and I will nod my head on that.

The offense looks different though. We seriously look like a different team out there and I wonder if it's the veterans, maturity, or if he has given more control of the offense to someone else...

The best I can do right now is stop hating Woody SO much. Bah... We'll see how this team progresses through the season. Right now, I've got no complaints.

I've been saying this for awhile . . . Woody's philosophy of defense and rebounding was always sound. The reason it didn't work then and that it is working through the first 5 games is that the players have matured around Joe and the addition of veterans to the bench. Subtract Salim and add Flip as scoring off the bench, and the world is a different place.

I'm still curious if there is anything influencing Woody's change in coaching other than having more vets on the bench. Wonder if Sund has influenced him too?

Hard to say, but thinking back Woody did use AJ and Ty Lue (is he playing this year?) before the Bibby trade. Hell, he even used Shellhead, but he got no production from them comparable to what Mo & Flip give. That says to me that the players on the bench have more to do with it than Sund (who must be given credit for giving Woody those players, however).

He got a better bench now; even he couldn't mess it up. I hate seeing Childress, Salim and Zaza in the game. Not much offense and no defense and rebounding.

I actually think Chills was decent, as was ZaZa when motivated (NOT last year pre-playoffs). Salim, not so much. I think he had scoring ability, but was more about himself than his team. That led him to hurt us on the floor (and undoubtably in the lockerroom) 98% of the time.

As to our bench, it's better but not so much so that Woody doesn't get some credit, along with Sund. I mean, I'm sure lots of teams could have gotten Mo and Flip, but I doubt they would have made as big a difference elsewhere. It's all about having proven vets rather than unsure young players, both in the starting lineup and on the bench.

I was suprised at Paul not attacking Josh when Josh was on him. I'd expect him to play that. He didn't even go hard at Zaza in the fourth when Za was on him.

IMO, Woody was never as bad as he was potrayed on this board. Not brilliant, but not bad. He stresses the right things: defense and rebounding win games consistently. The difference is that the team has matured and we have veterans on the bench. Mo and Flip as backcourt relief beats the hell out of last year's version of Chill (who I still wish was here at what the Hawks offered if we could also have Mo and Flip) and the then-tentative Acie Law.

The Hawks won't go undefeated, and there will be good reasons to criticize Woody & Co. later, but better players make better coaches.

Probably. After all, those Falcons are giving us a reason to watch and discuss them every Sunday. Those posters will be back...just like I was.

and some of us are just lurking and enjoying.

I seriously doubt it.

Every other team is gearing up for 2010. That means that next year's FA class will be a duck. Probably worse than this years. Teams will be trying to save their cash so that they can be in the 2010 free agent banaza.

Which means that those who try to lure a marquee free agent, but fail, will have plenty of cash to look at players like Marvin as a consolation prize, right?

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/h...smith_0703.html

I want Acie to succeed at least as much as anyone else here, but his production was NOT a Woody problem. Woody tried to play him when he was productive, but Acie got injured and had difficulty regaining his confidence when he returned. He played games and made not one, but several consecutive mistakes that resulted from low confidence, and was appropriately benched at that point. Some would say he should be allowed to play through even the multiple mistakes, but if the Hawks lose even one more game (as might have happened if Acie had been left in) they don't make the playoffs, they don't push Boston to 7 and they don't have momentum going into next year like they do now.

What would this team's morale be like without the Boston series? Regardless of who the coach or GM is, we needed this post season BAD. Acie played well in his few playoff minutes, and I for one hope that he grows enough to take the position from Bibby sooner, rather than later, so we can use those $$ for a big in '09-'10, and or quality spot shooting.

Woody gave Acie every reasonable chance to handle the point, injury and confidence bad karma just didn't let it happen.

As we sit, the Hawks were far more competitive than the Cavs have been. The reason for this is the athleticism and length that the commentators all note. The architect of that athleticism and length was BK, who followed this blueprint to a fault, which was the main reason that Marvin was selected over CP3 (along with Marvin being the consensus #2 pick), who was deemed too small with inadequate consideration given to his obvious more than compensating advantage in quickness and skill (if memory serves, going into that year, CP3 was the consensus #1 pick before difficult games against college players like Jarrett Jack and supposed character issues led him to slide). BK deviated from his blueprint only in picking Shellhead, clearly his biggest mistake.

Our ability to switch on virtually any player is an advantage that will serve the Hawks well unless some future GM gets rid of too many of the players BK brought here. Add a decent big man (not necessarily great), let Acie develop and add some outside shooting off the bench, and this team could play with just about anyone (I bet the Celtics don't want a repeat matchup with such a team next year). BK wasn't perfect, but he obviously did some good here. Hope the next guy enhances and doesn't blow it.

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I think Nique is well served doing what he's doing, the face of the franchise, a HOF presence that attracts talent. I think the former player transitioning to a successful GM is relatively rare, even moreso than those that become successful coaches. Joe Dumars did it, but others have failed or either still have the jury out. Zeke Thomas, Kevin McHale and even the executive of the year up in Beantown come to mind. Kupchak was considered a failure until his recent rape of the Grizzlies. Jerry West was considered a success, but after the Memphis fiasco, how much of that was savvy and how much was the bright lights of Tinseltown?

There aren't many players I'd trust with a salary cap in a room full of greedy agents.