SuperSavvyNation

There is a time and a place for everything....it doesn't take a genius to see that with the Hawks dominating and playing exciting basketball that a little love was due. At some point, it will be time to be critical of the Hawks....but this was obviously not the time. Thumbs down to the TNT crew.

LOL. I agree that JJ is much better than Hughes, but Woodson hasn't molded crap. The offensive ineptitude of Woodson's "system" has allowed JJ and players like Flip to shine.

JJ is a very good player. But you guys are kidding yourselves if you don't look at the big picture and see that he is still Robin in search of his Batman.

The better we get as a team and the more expectations that we have, it's becoming more evident that to truly challenge for a championship our roster still needs a major "tweak" before we can make that leap.

I still think that trading Jsmoove is the only way to take that next step and add a necessary piece to reach our potential.

HamHawk, you do realize that the NBA draft has only two rounds right?

My problem is, with Bibby we are too jump shot oriented. When his minutes are limited we play much better team ball and we don't have to worry about him shooting us out of it trying to find his shot (he can't drive). His defense gets us in trouble too and I think overall, he makes us play the kind of ball that only looks good when we are shooting the lights out. Otherwise, he is a liability.

My biggest issue in games like the Bobcats was our refusal to stand up for ourselves. In baseball if a team gets comfortable in the box and keeps swinging from the heels, someone is going down.

We can't give up easy layups. At some point, Horford, Smoove, or Zaza needs to clean some clocks and let their opponents know it ain't gonna be easy inside. You coming inside, you're gonna have to pick yourself off the floor and limp to the free throw line. Not every play (of course), but this needs to happen more. It's an attitude and a toughness that we don't have.

Of course, with all of the hugging and kissing before and after the games between opponents, it's no wonder that things get a little too friendly on the court.

Problem is, when Bibby is healthy and plays we become a team that lives and dies with jumpshots. When Flip is in we penetrate and shoot much fewer outside shots. It's a shame that we are so athletic and are looking to count on Bibby to get hot and Joe to get hot for us to have a chance. With this roster, again, we should be inside-out and running as much as possible. Bibby, while effective at times, makes a much more streaky team that is setup for failure in the playoffs.

If I had my druthers, we would run the offense through Marvin and Horford. Bibby and Joe would play off of them and you would see much more consistency.

I'm glad the Hawks won tonight but it is getting increasingly difficult to ready anything from Dolfan.

Some people are grating in their constant detraction from anything that could be going well....Dolfan is the opposite, but maybe even more irritating.

Dude, I'm pretty sure that you aren't sleeping with anyone currently considered Hawks management.....but considering the lack of teeth in anything you ever have to say I think I could make an argument either way at this point.

Surely you know that being the ultimate apologist is not the same as objectivity and you are just as nauseating as Hotlanta at the opposite end of the spectrum.

Wheew, been wanting to say that for a while....I feel better now.

Huh? First of all Nique went to college. Smith didn't. Secondly Nique averaged 17 ppg as a rookie, shooting 49%. Smith does not have the talent Nique had.

Smith has always worked hard on his game. His problem is that he wants to be an all around player and he doesn't have the talent to be an all around player. He just needs to accept his limitations and focus on the things he can actually do.

He is also clearly still hurting. He was noticably grimacing after a drive to the basket today.

Saying he is lazy is pretty ridiculous considering how many times he has run down opponsing players on the fast break and blocked their shots. He has consistently been the first player back on d since he has been here.

You hit the nail on the head Exodus. I was scrolling down to post exactly that. Josh's problem is he wants to do more than he can. He wants to prove that he is that budding superstar. Unfortunately for the Hawks, he also understands that to get to that level he has to add another dimension to is offense....hence, the long range clankers, the bumbling full court drives, etc.

It's not bad to want to be an all-around player. However, it is extremely selfish of Smith to go about it in the way that he has. Improve your game, fine. But not at the team's expense. I would love to know what goes on behind closed doors between Josh and the coaches.

We all know what Jsmoove does well. Those things are enough to make this team very formidable. However, Josh has yet to be honest with himself about his limitations. I don't know what it will take for him to grow up and maximize his strengths while miniminzing his weaknesses. It seems simple, yet he is bullheaded enough to make it seem like he may never embrace this.

blame the 1st quater

It's "Quarter".....sorry, but I've seen you type that word wrong a dozen times over that past few days.

Yeah, his whopping TWO double figure rebounding games are just so d@mn impressive. Nevermind that he is a near skill less (by NBA standards) player. You don't play guys that shoot 30% from the field. I don't want to hear the garbage about a hurt shoulder. Tired of hearing this excuse with basically everybody on the team that doesn't play well. His two best years came on 25-30 win teams. Alot of players look good when the team doesn't really have any goals.

The more that is expected out the Hawks, the worse ZaZa looks out there. He is slow, nonathletic, can't defend, can't shoot, can't postup, can't block shots, can't hit FT's. Dude has 3 steals in 14 games. Which is not impressive. Even for a center.

I don't see all this toughness when players are getting layups and dunks on the Hawks at will. I don't see him in there blocking the shots or defending.

I know that won't be a popular opinion for some, but you are right on about Zaza. I can't stand to watch him get shots stuffed right back in his face and look so overmatched out there. The big rebounding game was maybe his only productive game of the season and it wasn't like he was dominating to get those boards. He chased down a couple of loose balls but otherwise, they were mostly uncontested rebounds.

Sorry, :beathorse:

I've thought about saying this on different occasions in other threads in regards to Marvin. I have to say that I have little faith that he will ever be anything special. I can sum up Marvin in one game.....last year's Seattle matchup in Seattle.

He was back in his old stomping grounds ,wanting to impress. Marvin took that game over, scoring 33 pts and being the player that we need him to be on a nightly basis.

However, that game was the game that solidified my opinion on Marvin. He could be exceptional if he wanted to. But up to this point, he only chooses to stretch his game to the next level on special occasions. That is the prime example of the lack of heart, motivation, and passion that seems to follow him and is routinely been his chief criticism. The fact that he can take his game to that level when motivated is what lets me know he doesn't want to be a special player based on his consistent mediocrity.

I can throw everything else out the window and just use this one game as the ultimate realization of what Marvin Williams is. A special performace that proves quite the opposite.

You've got to still be REALLY young to be that goofy.

In my mind, this means that someone has just entered the picture that could trump Grant as the GM.

When you say that Mike Fratello can't get it done as a head coach because the 1985/1986 NBA Champion Boston Celtics beat the Hawks out in the playoffs in one of the great series we've ever seen......then you aren't thinking clearly.

Those Hawks were a great team, the Celts were simply better.

If marvin was 7 yrs old, then I would say his balance could improve.....he's 21. Jumpshots improve, dribbling improves, free throws can improve.....if you are 21 and still clumsy with poor hands in the NBA, I don't see that changing. See things for what they are without the blinders.

I'm sorry, but most of this is hogwash and wishful thinking. I don't care how young Marvin is. I've seen players who can get it done and Marvin is not one of them. His clumsiness, inability to finish or even take a hit, poor hands, and docile nature are what doom him.

You can forget him ever being a star. My eyesight and years of watching the game says so. Can he be an adequate contributor? Perhaps. But for the Hawks....at the SF position....he is not what we need. If we can't find someone at that position (or move JJ there and find a SG) who can stretch the floor, then our offense will continue to lack consistency and balance.

Zbo

I really feel it would be a mistake if we retain Woody. If that happens, you can mark it down that we'll be ready to fire him mid-way through next season and their won't be any worth while coaching candidates to replace him.

Might as well get Fratello or Avery and be done with it, because the axe is coming and it would be better sooner than later.

Honestly, I just don't think Marvin has it in him. He was overhyped and never had the potential that many predicted. He's very limited as a player and is A) not motivated B) uncoordinated and weak C)cannot handle pressure.

Every time I watch him I always wonder why so many thought he was a superior athlete coming out of UNC. He has proven otherwise and even if there is some skill there that heart thing is never likely to change.

The sooner we can get someone to give us any kind of value for Marvin, the better it would be to move in a different direction.

Zbo

I think the biggest issue was our offense and Bibby's inability to penetrate and distribute. Heck, he even has trouble dribbling in any sort of traffic. Notice how Acie looked when he came in. I was hoping that Woody had seen the light and was going to lean on Acie this game when it was evident Bibby was going to be ineffective. A PG who can get in the lane and score or dish can cure a lot of ills when the offense goes stagnant.

This is ridiculous... We were LUCKY to make the playoffs because our starters were so overplayed throughout the year.

To say Woody was thinking about the playoffs in March and fine-tuning some kind of strategy, (during the period that the rumored attempts of his firing had surfaced), instead of thinking about the best way to MAKE them and SAVE HIS JOB is just absolutely unlikely, and frankly retarded.

Exactly. To try and spin Woody's decisions any other way is just silly. That kind of a wacky reasoning just lets me know for sure that northcyde (who usually comes to rational conclusions) is just high on the drug that was pumped out by the Hawks improbable wins so far. When it wears off, do we really want another season of this clown? I mean, its obvious to anyone who pays attention that the axe is coming...oh yes....Do we really need to give him more time so that we can be coach searching in the middle of next season?

Woody has been in "save my job" mode for much of the season. And I think that it came at the expense of the overall team and logical decision making. Not some grand scheme in preparation for the playoffs, LOL.

Ah give me a break, Northcyde. Perspective please. I know that you and many are caught up in the euphoria of the past two wins. It's easy to do and I'm enjoying it as much as anyone. However, I've seen enough of Woody to know that the longer that he is the head coach of the Hawks the longer you will see the Hawks struggle to be a consistent winner because he has shown he can't handle his duties on a nightly basis.

I think we all know that. My original point was proven beautifully by northcyde. Enjoy the ride, but in order to get better as a team Woody needs to be replaced by a competent head coach. He has given us an adequate sample size to come to this conclusion.

Zbo

I'm hearing a lot of people rethinking their stance on MW's future with the Hawks. Don't. Please look at this from a larger perspective than just these past few games (which I think by and large are a result of the players deciding to raise their intensity and focus level).

In fact, these wins versus Boston create a greater reason to can the coach ASAP. We can begin to see the potential of this team if they are focused and motivated. If we add a couple of pieces and then manage this team with greater competence....then and only then will we have a product with potential to do some special things.

This is only the starting point. Hopefully, ASG will understand this too and see the need (despite the past few days) to put a coach in place that will see the Hawks realize their potential.

Zbo

It's not about freaking out because we lost. It's about being incredulous about how a team in this situation with the prize in front of them can come out and play with so little fire and intensity. That's the sticking point. At this point in the season, if you aren't going to leave your hearts bleeding on the court with a game of that magnitude then I have trouble accepting that as a fan.

What's worse is that they were coached to approach this game in this type of fashion. I can deal with losing to Indy. I can not deal with losing because of a lack of effort. EFFORT! Are you kidding me?!?

The thing that I don't understand about Marvin is not just his shooting slump. Everyone has those. Lately, he can't catch a pass. I saw two dishes underneath to him last night that went right through his hands. And what's with his driving attempts where he is off balance after his 1st step and falling down? When he gets into the lane he is just flipping wild attempts toward the backboard.....did he learn that from Zaza? I just don't get it. I get shooting slumps. But Marvin actually looks worse on the basketball court right now than at any other time in his professional career. I say trade him in a package deal for someone who can help the team win.

If Smoove could start commanding a double team in the post, our offense could really shine. IMO, the three things that we have been missing most in our offense are:

1) PG who could penetrate and break down defenses

2) Outside shooting

3) Post presence who could command a double team, freeing up a shooter for an open look

Hopefully, #1 and #2 were answered by getting Bibby. If Smoove could handle #3 our half court offense would be ideal.

zbo