crimedog

Yeah, we need to keep talent. Smoove pretty much was the only player who stepped "up" during the Playoffs.

Yeah, this might be telling. As annoying as Smith can be, he was the most effective player overall in the playoffs and when you consider how much he handicapped his own effectiveness... well its something to consider.

For those that say it is clear we need to get rid of Smith, why? Just curious, but do you think swapping Smith for an average-ish C will make us better? Go back and look at those playoffs. The issue wasn't that Smith couldn't be Lebron, the issue is that we were asking him to be Lebron.

Look at Cleveland. Does the mythical POST SCORER that everyone talks about allow us to beat Cleveland? No. Not at all. Does Chris Kaman keep up with Lebron on the 3/5 pick and roll 18 feet away from the hoop? Nope.

No, when people talk about us needing a shot-blocking, rebounding, post scoring C to win they are right in a lot of ways. Unfortunately they are thinking of Hakeem, not Sam Dalembert/Ty Chandler/Kaman/Thabeet/Hibbert/other stiff.

Oh, and Horford scoring 17-20 a game? In high school, I'd imagine he could... Not NCAA. Certainly not NBA.

Maybe Joe's weak playoffs will help us retain him for cheaper.

I'm not OK with rebuilding for the sake of rebuilding (ie, trading Marv for a perma-injured bum like Kaman). If someone good like Bosh makes themselves available long term, I'll trade a peice. I'd also probably trade Marv for a less talented vet who could be lights out from deep and play good D or Al for a slightly less talented true C (none on the market for him probably). Otherwise, I'm happy with this roster... we don't have Lebron or a transcendent talent like that -- that hurts us, but trading our guys for other non-stars doesn't change that.

Article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...ex.html?eref=T1

If you would prefer us to not be in the playoffs, in other words not have us still playing games, you can get a reasonable facsimile by not watching.

Bibby, Flip, Evans, Smith, Zaza with Claxton, Law, West, Hunter, Solo off the bench.

Wow, we're going to get killed.

You're forgetting Hunter. Sad thing is, he's what passes for our chance at a "difference maker".

I wouldn't overreact too much. I think a lot of us are simply underestimating the greatness of LeBron. They lost 1 meaningful game at home all year, and we are the 3rd youngest team in the league. Not a good combination for us. I do think that Sund is coming to the realization that top priority is getting Joe out of here, though. While Marvin's conditioning, Josh's brain, Bibby's defense, and Woody's X's and O's (or lack thereof) are all notorious topics in the NBA right now, I do believe thay can be salvaged by a complete, Sund-ordered offensive overhaul. Come to think of it, the always-switching defense has to go also, or at least Woody has to come to the realization that there are some teams you can do it against, and some who laugh at it. Al seems more of a blue chip, seeing as he is probably the most attractive player on our team to the rest of the NBA. I don't know where the 20+ point scorer is coming from, nor the dual-end point, or the post scoring threat, or the coach who actually knows how to administer a set, but I hope the days of Woody (if he doesn't welcome an offensive coordinator) and Joe are numbered. It is pretty sad when the best players to help build a future come off the pine in Zaza and Flipper.

With that said, yall know how I do. Let's go Joe-less Hawks! I hope that flight home was on turbo and they make the practice court their home until this series is over. They don't deserve to do anything or go anywhere not related to game-planning against Cleveland, and I expect to hear as much from Woody and Bibby. What they actually do about it is another matter.

How do you propose swapping Joe out for an effective post player and point guard?

The heat beat us just as badly... I guess it hurts less when the team thrashing you isn't pulling up from halfcourt with 3 seconds left in the game-clock (up 23 points... twice), dancing around laughing at you, doing jumping-jacks during timeouts, satiricaly treating a jump-ball like the most important play of the game, getting every single goddamn call despite them winning by 30 etc.etc.

I hope to GOD somehow, someway Lebron never wins a championship. That's my biggest basketball fantasy after seeing a Hawks championship. Michael Jordan might have been arrogant, and he might have gotten every call (if you ask me Lebron gets away with twice as much as what Jordan got away with, but whatever) but at least he had some class, and dignity.

I hope these assclowns get embarrassed in the finals... all we will get is a bunch of excuses from Lebron "Crab Dribble" James... the man who never has, and never will commit a foul, or a traveling violation.

What, in your opinion, gave Jordan more "class" than James? Jordan was almost as much of a dbag as Kobe is, he was just a better player so he could get away with it.

Series is moving back to Atlanta. Honestly it didn't seem like the guys weren't trying, just that the injuries finally started to catch up when we were playing in the hardest place to win since the 86 Boston Garden.

No surprise with the suspension of Fisher and no meaningful action against Kobe or the ref who absolutely blew the Kobe/Artest situation.

Personally, I don't think the decision to not suspend Kobe is wrong. His action was more in the course of play and looked to me to be jostling in the post gone wrong. It isn't a surprise that the league came down for leniency on LA's superstar, though. Regardless of the merits, Kobe would have to do something pretty egregious to get something this post-season. He didn't even get a foul on the play that was retroactively labeled a flagrant.

The circumstances surrounding the non-call are what bugs me. Its like the PHX suspensions a couple of seasons ago but worse because Horry did get the boot.

Just the fact that Artest got kicked out of the game presumably because of his history of craziness but Kobe's history of potentially dangerous cheap shots doesn't force the refs hand in a similar manner is annoying.

I'm not hoping for a career ending injury to him.

When you watch it 2 or 3 times in SLOW MOTION it may look there was premiditation. Watch one time at REAL GAME SPEED with a fresh and clear mind. My intial reaction seeing it at LIVE SPEED was its a bad call. Then they showed 10 X in slow motion where 1 second turns into 10 seconds.

Do you know how fast your brain is your moving when you are defending a guy 12 years younger then you and a feel a 6'10'' guy coming up behind you fro a screen ? How quick and nimble do you think the 36 years old Fisher to get out of the way Scola ? You either take the hit or deliver hit the hit at that point. I totatly agree its a technical. Don't understand getting thrown out of the game for running through a pick to protect yourself.

I watched it in real-time and it was blatantly obvious that what he did was much more of a hockey move than a basketball move. He saw Scola coming, wound up, and just checked him. That's a call in any era.

My thought is this, things happen over the course of the game, guys get hit, guys get bumped... not only do most fans not like it, they kind of enjoy it, it makes the game more fun. The issue is though, if you are going to make a rule that says any intentional shot above the shoulders is an auto-suspension, you have to enforce it or change the rule. Kobe has a history with this sort of thing, he socked Manu in the face and broke Mike Miller's schnozz.

I get annoyed when Bron doesn't get called for reaching in. I get even more annoyed when DWade lies on the ground for 2 minutes after smelling a foul odor and then limps to the line, hits his freebies, and dunks on a 7-footer the next trip down. I get most annoyed though, when Kobe Bryant intentionally throws a bow at a guy's head and doesn't get punished. Selling a foul bump to get to the line is one thing, straight up hitting a dude in the neck because he's crowding you is something else altogether.

From Realgm:

Did anyone see this ?

Did Kobe give him a strong elbow ?

Did Artest deserve to be ejected for his reaction of being elbowed ? Was there no foul called on Kobe's elbow ?

Is this the NBA's way to be sure the Lakers don't fall into a 0-2 hole heading to Houston ?

Just interested to hear from somenone who saw it live.

Yeah, he cracked the s*** out of him and then Ron got called for it and decided he had enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irtnkEmubqY

We did play better last game when Joe was acting like a decoy in the first half.

If we could find a way to get Joe shots in the flow of the offense without necessarilly having him iso iso iso it would be nice.

Last night's lost falls on the players hands down.

... and credit where credit is due, we'd have to play about a perfect game to beat the Cavs considering the talent disparity.

On what Bibby said I don't believe that "put him somewhere else" automatically implies that he's put him in a spot on the floor as it could very well mean that he simply needs to be put him somewhere and not let him be wherever he wants to be. I certainly don't like that but would it really shock anyone if Smith is allowed to freelance in such a manner? I think that Woody handles Josh with kids gloves and I think that he allows him to pretty much freelance within our offense other than coming off of picks and what not.

And while I don't know that Woody puts Smith in a specific spot that doesn't mean that he doesn't have specific areas where he wants other players. Smith is the most volatile and immature player on the team and that's why I think he handles him with kids gloves so that Josh feels like he has the freedom he wants and Woody gets the defensive effort that he wants. Woody can expect more from his other players since they're more stable and that's why he has a role for them.

Whether or not Smith is the least mature player on the team is something that I'm not qualified to answer as I don't know any of these dudes. I can say that from the looks of it Woody doesn't handle Smith with kid gloves. He's willing to pull Josh or call him out for taking bad shots...

If Woody's offensive system is "Everyone has a role except Josh Smith because I'm too scared of him to coach him" then that too is an indictment.

$$$?

Actually, Al has the same skilset that Karl Malone had when he came into the league.

Undersized PF with strength and the want to to grab rebounds and play physically. Al has to be hooked up with the right big man coach and we have to change our offensive scheme.

Al isn't undersized at PF... neither was Malone...

Al doesn't have the offensive game Malone did, not coming into the league, not later. Malone was one of the most aggressive players in the history of the league. He LOVED to mix it up, loved contact inside. Al is timid. They aren't alike at all.

I think its a combination of a few things. We don't get Al out in transition too often and we don't run many pick and rolls with him which is where he would shine. On the other hand, he isn't a particulalry good offensive player when it comes to making his own offense. He isn't skilled enough to dominate in the post and he isn't aggressive enough to take advantage of matchups.

That being said, what are we gonna do about it? Who would you replace him with and how would you get that player?

Obviously the "Al is untouchable", "Al is like Tim Duncan", "Al is going to put up Karl Malone numbers" nonsense of this past summer was foolish, but the fact remains that he's a versatile and fairly effective big man on a rookie contract. If someone else thinks he'll be a star and is willing to give up star value for him, lets do that, otherwise he is what he is and thats enough for now.

Not to hijack this thread, but I certainly wouldn't mind signing Joel Anthony. He'd be a good bargain at the LLE, I think.

I feel like he's Solo with different strengths and weaknesses. He has more meat than Solo though, which is a good thing, and he's from Montreal which gives him points with this McGill Alum. I'm not really sure he's any more productive than Solo though.

How is it strange to interpret what Bibby said (along with Woody's quote from earlier in the year) and our knowledge of Woody's system in a way that shows that Woody isn't actually instructing Josh to be in a certain place? I think it's far more likely that he allows Josh to do whatever he wants than it is to assume that he's intentionally placing him at the 3pt line.

Because coaches design plays in the NBA. There is structure. It isn't the playground. If we really want to get into the semantics of what Bibby said, he wouldn't have said to "put him somewhere else" he would have said "don't let him do whatever he wants".

I'm not sure that Woody literally says to Josh that he should stand AT the 3pt line, but at least pulled out of the paint to create the most room for a drive from the perimeter. As someone (D?) noted, we often seem to be running a Pistons set where Josh plays Sheed, Bibby plays Rip, and Joe plays Billups. The fact that Josh is in position to take the 3 doesn't mean he should take it, thats his fault on the issue, the fact that he's so often in position to do it is Woody's.

Are you actually implying that Woody has never told Josh to do anything? That he literally has no offensive set at all? If thats the case we need to fire him immediately because he's not doing what he's supposed to to earn a paycheck. I'm much more comfortable with what the team is paying him if he just has bad offensive sets than if he's so lazy/stupid that he can't make an offensive set at all.

I don't think anyone wants to "get rid" of Smith. Trading him for a legit center is another matter...

Joel Anthony? Haha, I know you were kidding.

I'll be thrilled to get either one. Boston would make for the juiciest series, though.

Yeah, getting to the ECF would mean we knocked off the top team in the league and I'd feel suprisingly confident against either. However, Boston without KG might not be more talented than us so I'd certainly like them... However, that very fact make it unlikely they will make it through.

I have $225 on the Hawks at 15-1 actually. I have $750 on the Hawks as 12.5 point underdogs tonight, but am not going to touch game 2. I will check the lines for games 3 and 4, and see what I want to do.

A big win on Game 7 vs. the Heat enabled me to bet this with no worries, as did a Rockets win last night...

Haha, congratulations! I hope the Hawks continue to make you money well into the summer months...