crimedog

JJ being aggressive was nice to see. He realized his jumper has been off, so he attacked the rim and did a good chunk of his scoring in the lane and at the line. Even Hotlanta took notice of this...he had some nice things to say during last night's chat. Just surprised me, I had to mention it.

Yeah, I wondered throughout the game why he didn't just do that every game. Did they switch strategies on him?

To answer your hypothetical question...I will say that a 360 windmill is flashier than both. Now, flashy is flashy, just depends on who you are asking some people will give one a 9 and the other a 10 and vice versa. And oh please, playoff series or not, if the game is over, the game is over. I guess you never played basketball and at the end of the game, try shots that you normally would not take, a big man taking a three pointer. And in the days of Bird, Magic, and Nique (someone else asked what would they have done), the "flahsy" dunks were the double pumps and the windmill (one and two handed), and 360. They did them, in runaway games and not even blowouts, as long as they had open court. If you are up by 30 why continue to run fast breaks and shoot threes (just to add on to the lead, and humiliate the opponents). Next hypthetical question?

Larry Bird once shot left handed for an entire game just to see what happened.

Stupid response: "... but it wasn't the playoffs"

Logical answer: "Doesn't matter, you still have to play those teams again and you could very well play that team in the playoffs. Not trying for an entire game is more insulting to the opponents and entire league than attempting a dunk in front of your home fans during the waning moments of a freaking blowout... Did Bird not get it?"

I'm going to quote the entire article, so people who love Smith can see why the rest of us are so frustrated on a regular basis. He wastes possessions, which are like gold in the NBA:

Read the article. Don't disagree with anything in it. On the other hand, he has definitely been our best player this series. Unless you still want to say its Al Horford...

My point is, while we're in this series and can't do anything about the fact that he's doing this... Lets focus on some positives. Its just a pain in the *ss to come on here after our wins, in which he was a huge part, and read about all the things he did wrong. We didn't break-down every missed shot Joe had while he was shooting 35% with more TOs than assists in the previous 4 games. We didn't break down every possession in which Al got schooled by JO. We didn't break down every possession Flip took the shot with an open man in the previous 4 games even though he was shooting sub-30%. So why do we have to break down literally everything he does wrong even though, with all his inconsistencies, he's been our most consistent player in this series (which, obviously says something about our team's ability to be consistent... another story altogether).

So just a question, which one is a flashier dunk a windmill or a between the legs windmill? Better yet I think Josh should have thrown the ball off the backboard led into a between the legs windmill and break into a stanky leg dance after, Dominique would of held up a sign with a 10 on it Cheryl Miller would of interviewed him and David Stern present him with his trophy. Oh what's that you say? The Hawks are in a playoff series not a dunk contest? What? They've yet to win the playoff series yet alone the championship they seem to be celebrating? oh well that just sounds terrible then.

So there shouldn't be dunks on breakaways? Just layups. We should all just be content watching the number on our side going higher than the number on their side?

Eh, obviously I agree with the assessment. I just think that his value to the team right now is about what we pay him (either that or we pay Joe Johnson waaaaay too much money). At this point its less about potential more about production.

Hahahahahaha, profanity filter won't like you say "d*ck" ahahahaha.

Anyway, yeah, they suck. If I have to listen to announcers who have a desired outcome in mind (Wade being a hero against the villianous Josh Smith and his band of brutes), I'd at least like them to be home announcers who tell funny stories about 12th men.

That Solo thing was ridiculous. He gave him a freaking hug. Who cares?

I don't mind Wade taking offense and trying to get the guys fired up but talking smack to him. I don't mind Solo talking back. I don't mind Magloire standing up for his star. And I don't mind Smith standing up for his boy.

Its part of the damn game, and frankly, I'm loving that even in a series of pretty uncompetitive games, we're giving basketball fans something to talk about. Think about it, we've had ONLY double digit games in this series and people are still saying "hey man, those Hawks are something else, they don't take **** from nobody"

Smoove is not Lebron

That means something in a lot of circumstances, I'm not sure why you are pointing that out now.

In the other thread someone asked whether Bird, Magic, or MJ would do something like this. Do people forget, those guys LIVED to embarass opponents. They talked trash when they were up 30 and all 3 were big into theatrics. Now, what I'd say to Josh is, if you are going to do it, do a dunk you know you'll land.

To those that are complaining though, what should he have done? A layup? No, excite the crowd and thank them for coming to the game.

Josh takes stupid shots, complain about that.

He's the second best perimeter player in the league, I can't take that away from him, but every time I watch him now, it seems like he's just trying to make highlights for those NBA 25 years of champions DVDs "Wade, after barely being able to get off the bench because of an injury, pushed the Heat past the Hawks with a breathtaking performance"

I said it in another thread but it seems like Kobe rubbed off on him in the wrong way this summer. Now Wade thinks its just the Dwyane Wade show.

Its annoying to watch Josh complain to the refs but at least he doesn't play it up when he hits the ground, which is a lot.

I think we should be able to close this one out without those dudes. I think we would lost to Cleveland regardless. I guess the concern is a "playing with fire" situation with Solo playing big minutes.

Duff_Man, apparently he's money from downtown.

If I were one of those teams and I wanted JJ, I'd take Paul and then trade him to ATL for Joe Johnson plus an unprotected 1st.

I hope you're right. He went on a 4 game tear at the end of the season that really put this team over the top and solidified home court. Don't quote me on this, but I think he averaged close to 30 ppg during that stretch. I want to see that same type of play starting tonight.

To be fair, it hasn't really been that type of series. This is a series with two defensively oriented coaches who like to grind it out. No one is really trying to blow the roof off.

EDIT: Although I just looked and his playoff PER is 4.5 which is pretty astounding.

The issue is though, with the Hinrich Noah deal, that it ends up hurting us on offense because Noah is even more reliant on others for his offense than Horford is while Josh can create his own shot decently if not near the level of a guy like Bosh and our team unfortunately relies on that to an extent.

The thing is, the Hawks don't need Smith to score to win. Surely, surely, surely, he realizes that...right?

He's our leading scorer in this series...

Unless Joe can start handling these doubles or Al develops some sort or shot creating ability, we need him to score if we are going to win, it would be very nice if he were to score like he did in game 1 more often.

it seems to me smith complains about being fouled all the time because he is getting fouled all the time. that just looks like what it looks like to me. i'd rather have complain about it to the refs than to say absolutely nothing like joe. btw no one says anything about the 3 to 4 times a game kobe, lebron, and wade complain about fouls even though they get most of their calls.

oh and to answer the question what could smoove get us? a championship, if joe would show up

Well, I'm definitely annoyed with Smith's whining to the refs but I do agree with the sentiment that you have to pick something. If you think Joe gets hacked and it pisses you off that he doesn't get called, don't complain that Smith whines to the refs. If you want license to complain about Smith, don't start claiming that Joe deserves the same treatment as the other stars who do the "work" to get those calls.

I'm a big Smith fan but if we could get Bosh or Amare to resign, I'm probably in. More bullish on Bosh, but I also think he's less likely to want to sign in ATL.

Noah/Kirk/1st is pretty good value as well. Another one I'd have to definitely think about.

If we did get Bosh or Amare though, I'd look into trading Al for a real beast because the D would start gettin real sweaty.

Smoove a dissapoint?? please you guys are silly... Smoove has played pretty well so far.. Al is the one who has sucked.. Stop making excuses for him. He will NEVER be more than what he is on offense right now.. And he's getting clowned by JO who's not that great . IF anyone has sucked this series it's Joe. but of course everyone has excuses for him as well..

I don't agree with this. I just think its ridiculous to continually call Smith out even though he's been the most productive player this series. He's our leading scorer, he's getting just under 9 boards a game, and his D has been great. His FG% is down from the 49% it was earlier but his FT% is up and he's scoring more which is the opposite of Al and Joe who are both scoring less and doing it less efficiently (they all have had about the same drop in FG% actually).

Will someone explain what this means in terms of how many dollars he made this season and how many he's due each of the next two seasons?

2 things. What do you mean? Also, I thought there was still some confusion in how to translate his exact earnings when you figure that his Euro salary was stated post-tax. Either way it seems like he's up and if he started buying stuff that appreciates, he could be really up.

No, that would be Flip Murray, Josh Smith, and perhaps even Marvin Williams.

Horford has had one mediocre game where he was in foul trouble, but he's been a consistent, solid contributor. His problem is the same as Marvin's - he's not flashy.

Except that he's let a guy who was supposed to be washed up and a lesser player dominate him. He's shown a complete inability to create his own offense. He's shown a knack for disappearing in times of need.

I don't mean to denegrate Al as I actually like him as a center on our team. Its just annoying to see someone who often uses such rational reasoning making unsubstantiated statements about the guy who has been our best player this series being such a disappointment and blindly defending a guy who has been average at best.

That's an easy one. Wade has it. Paul Pierce has it. Kobe has it. Chris Paul. Deron Williams. Ben Gordon. Artest. LeBron James. Brandon Roy. Tony Parker. Nate Robinson. Ray Allen. Heck, even Flip Murray has it. Flip's just not as good as those guys. You see, you don't have to be very talented to have that fire within you. You just have to have that fire in your gut first. However, having that "fire in your gut" will only take you so far. Likewise, talent will only take you so far. Having a good combination of both makes great players, and the right combination of talent and "fire in the gut" makes special players. Therefore, you can have differing combined levels of talent and fire. As far as Joe Johnson is concerned, he's not as athletically gifted as other elite players in the league, but, if he had that "fire in his gut" that other players have, he would make up for it because he has good physical size and tremendous basketball skill. I don't think that anyone can truly say that Joe Johnson has been busting his butt and has done everything he can to help his team win in this playoff series. That's a matter of heart and desire more than anything else.

Didn't Chris Paul just go 4-6 while his team got a 58 point beatdown at home?

Its funny because in 06' he just played the game. He got calls but he didn't have to sell himself, he just attacked relentlessly. Kobe never did that.

Then, after this summer, people write articles about how much good it did for the young guys to play with Kobe and how they are starting to act like them but the only time I see guys like Wade acting more like Kobe is the the whining, the scornful looks towards the teamates, the inncessant attempts to be dramatic, and the higher propensity to settle for "heroic" fadeaways in late game situations.

I would like to know what current players in the NBA exhibit these characteristics. In the squawkers eyes...

Lebron, maybe? Duncan of years past?

Kobe failed mentally against the Celts last season (and against the Suns for a couple seasons before that and against the Pistons a couple seasons before that). Wade continually settled last night, pouted when things didn't go his way. KG has always been criticized for not having a killer instinct. Dirk let a red hot Wade steal his thunder when he did make it to the finals.

I thought that as poorly as the played... they played pretty well. If that makes any sense.

They tried this game outside of a few stretches where Joe looked exhausted (it didn't seem like mental exhaustion where he gave up either, he just seemed tired as all hell). The rest of the guys were running, trying to make plays.

Bibby had a great game, Zaza dominated like he was Moses Malone, Josh played amazing D, Mo hit his open looks, Joe hit tough shots when we needed him to down the stretch, and Flip played great D on DWade.

Positives. For once.

While Al didn't play well, he certainly we victimized by some terrible foul calls and didn't even get to see the floor much. I would bet that Zaza starts to get a lot more minutes if Al continues to struggle on defense against that bum ONeal

He was victimized by JO more than terrible foul calls. He's had a pretty weak series, but big deal. We're 2-2 and going home, lets give the guys some credit for winning and instead of continually criticizing the only player on our team who has been better in the playoffs than the regular season, lets get behind the team. We can talk about how much better we'd be with Joel Anthony on our team after Josh is done being the best player on the team in the playoffs.

You're right though, the refs were godawful. Not in the way you'd expect with Wade on the floor, they were just about as choppy as you can get.

Criticize JJ instead? Umm, have you been reading the board the last few days?

As I said on RealGM, I'm basically done with Josh Smith. After 5 years, I don't see him suddenly learning how to play the game the right way. He's not worth the $12M/year the Hawks will be paying him over the next four seasons.

Al was without a doubt the worst player on the floor last night for either team with the possible exception of Beas. We don't have threads calling him out for letting a broken down JO abuse him the past 3 games, why not?