Jungle Jack

3 hours ago, DatBoiKhaos said:

God bless Al...but I can't support or root for him. Sorry. I can't be revisionist. I never questioned his effort, but he had a few lackluster games in the playoffs, along with the biggest bucket ever scored in ATL history. My issue isn't that he wanted to leave the organization. That's between him and the front office. When Tito came out and said what he said about level of fandom in MY CITY...that did it for me. You can't possibly think they didn't have these discussions in private. Nevermind the fact his son and some of his teammates didn't always bring it. It's ATL all day for me. You can't ish on my city and I feel good about it.

Athletes leave all the time. No thang to me. But I will continue to boo Tito's son. This is my city. Are we perfect? No. But it is red clay all day.

That was definitely not the most diplomatic ending to be sure.  That said, Atlanta metro is the biggest college football town in the United States.  We get 70 billion for a spring scrimmage in Athens, but could not sell out many playoff games.  

I shudder to think whether a peak MJ or LeBron game at Philips might be worth more than a Hawks playoff ticket.  Horford pretty much instantly brought respectability to the Hawks.  And if the Celtics finish off the Cavs, there will be weeks of Horford stories where no doubt Atlanta while be politely dissed.

While during the 60 win season the bandwagon thing was sorta Comic Book Guy annoying, the best hope of course of changing Hawks fandom starts with the young.  Had we kept a winning product for a spell, it really might have changed the narrative.

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

Both are UFAs so no dead money coming into next year from Ilya or Belli.

My mistake, I read somewhere else that they still had either salary or cap consequences.  Really glad that is not the case.  Maybe we can jettison Plumlee with the 32 or whatever our 2nd pick.

This really might be a great thing for Dennis.  He is still so young and am cautiously optimistic he could have a great year.   While his salary is highish, I really don't think his or Bazemore's for that matter is a disaster.  Rather, the dead money for the two fellas who went to Philly actually bother me more.

Given our current direction,  I really hope we hang on to Ham and other top tier assistants considering Summer League takes on added importance when we are going have a surfeit of first and second year players.

Between the number of picks and quality of the draft, the impact of this draft on the Hawks future cannot possibly be minimized.  More than anything, this will predicate how sustained the tanking is going to be.  With the forthcoming changes to the lottery at least shooting for 20 something wins will not be as common.

In regards to not hearing much about Budenholzer's perception amongst players, discounting NBA twitter it seems like him being so below the radar is by design of his "team".  Seemingly every coach has acolytes usually a player who perhaps did not sync with the previous regime and did not get as much playing time.  How could Hardaway not be a big fan for instance?  

Also, I certainly don't remember many/any articles of Hawks being disgruntled by him.  While Bud's salary is high for an HC, it is peanuts compared to the players.  Lue was just remarking about the salary disparity and its rarity as the "boss" is invariably paid more in most instances.  That is, if the majority of players did not like him, I would find it hard to believe he would be a prospect for the Raptors or really anywhere.

30 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I watch too much women's basketball.  Because when you said Nurse, this is the first person I thought of.

Good golly.  Can't say that I blame you!

9 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Not if we manage to somehow get Doncic despite Bud's ego doing its best to blow it. If we get Doncic, 2020/21 season we are back in the playoffs. That kid is a winner.

Amen.  What would you think the hypothetical price would be to move up to 1 from 7th?  More than anything, trying to incorporate four rookies at once seems a fools errand.  I would hope the worst case 7th, 30th, and the 2nd might get it done.

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

How is Toronto a great fit for Bud's system?  Toronto is middle of the road with 3 point shooting and Derozan can't shoot them at all.  Isn't Valanciunas their starting center backed up by Nogueira

DeRozan being a 30% or so beyond the 3 is decidedly not ideal.  Valanciunas is the starting 5.  I would guess it would be the combination of a new voice for the team, less iso's (not that the Raptors ran it the entire time), solid on development for both rookies and vets and so forth.

Casey getting fired is cruel and while I understand where they are coming from, LeBron is a historic player who words simply cannot convey. 

Also, as for the Bucks announcing, I would think any HC candidate has to have the Greek's blessing first and foremost.

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So they aren't worried that he would be hired somewhere else?

Considering to the degree that Budenholzer is playing with house money, I would not be surprised if the Bucks had not been in steady communication with Bud's agent.

Casey getting fired was seemingly not on most folks radar and likewise seems an excellent fit for Budenholzer's system.  Be interesting to hear more about how the Knicks search played out as he did take his name out of the Suns search and would be surprised that the Knicks would prefer Fisdale.

15 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So Bud is the leading candidate in Milwaukee and Toronto even though he hasn't interview with either?

Good point.  That said, while utterly conjecture, it would not shock me if Bud had a pretty good idea of where he stood with the Bucks prior to how the Knicks search played out.  What happened with the Raptors just makes his position darn near perfect as at minimum he could play one off the other.

Bud is a known quantity and I would think interviews are less important than for a younger and less accomplished candidate.  So I suppose that I think he is the leading candidate for at least the Bucks.  No doubt there are Vegas odds and I would guess likewise that Bud is odds on fave for Milwaukee.

9 minutes ago, terrell said:

Perfect fit.. They're both used to getting swept by Lebron.   lol

Nicely done.  Wrote on another thread about how I hope we at least look at Nurse and how much pressure is going to be on the next Raptors HC.  Sounds like Pierce will be announced soon with me guessing maybe a 5 PM announcement to drive the local sports chat.  That and Bradley's latest screed sure sounds like helping to lay out the welcome mat with him going all in on what Philly has wrought.

Maybe we will look at Nick Nurse and in the end might get something about of Bud after all should he end up in Toronto.  That is pretty brutal for Casey and good gosh the pressure to succeed instantly is going to be on for Bud or whomever ends up there.  If James stays in the East, this job might be fools gold in terms of stability.

Pierce did indeed appear to be a fait accompli so fingers crossed.  Considering just how much of a crapshoot hiring assistants is there is no telling how it will workout.  More than anything, it would be nuts to expect a top flight HC prospect at the beginning of the tank.  

And no doubt this was brought up here or elsewhere, but Bud to the Raptors sounds like Pierce is to the Hawks with him getting a "serious look" or some such.

This ESPN article from a while back is one of the better I have come across in regards to giving nuance to the 76'ers ownership and Hinkie and their tank par excellence:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/12318808/the-philadelphia-76ers-radical-guide-winning

Mostly, they are one and the same.  Likewise, Hinkie actually cooperated with the article.

Past the implications of what Philly did, I am not sure where I would place Embiid in terms of being a franchise player.  Needless to say, health is the overriding concern and while the collision with Fultz was a complete fluke, it is easy to forget he was drafted in 2014.

Moreover, the aforementioned Fultz has an uncertain future and Greek tragedy levels of expectations after what Mitchell and of course Tatum have done.  Also, it is amazing how easy it is to likewise forget about Jahlil Okafor was a number three pick in 2015 considering I cannot remember the last article that has even mentioned him.  

Beyond exploiting the system in the "process" the bigger problem is what they have done with those picks on the whole.  I will grant you drafting seems heavily based on witchcraft, but they also did quite well in the lottery in having 3's in 2014 (Embiid), 2015 (Okafor), and of course 2017,  a 1st in 2016 (Simmons), and for all intents and purposes the 6th pick with Noel after they jettisoned Holliday to NOLA.

I wonder if Van Gundy would be interested or if Schlenk/Ressler would be interested in him?  Would not think it will negatively impact the coaches we are considering as the Pistons should attract top tier candidates compared to us where best case 45 losses are practically a given for the next year or more.

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

But even with that, we have to hope that Doncic or Ayton are generational type Hall of Fame talents.  I don't think they are.   Now granted, you'll have at least 2 guys in this draft who will end up being Hall of Famers.  But I don't think anyone can come to a consensus of who they'll be, nor if they'll be good enough to be the lead guy on a championship team.  That's what makes tanking such a bad move more than a good one.

If the Hawks don't find their generational talent in these next 2 drafts, we could be in for the same scenario that we just came out from.  Then when we do find him, we have to quickly surround him with players that can help make him a great player.

I could not agree more.  I still have no clue who will go or even should go first and no doubt once the agents start doing their thing and we get longforms replete with glowing testimonies of the subject's transcendent and generational talent and the quirky aside about loving Skittles the projected lottery might change.

Doncic would be a great fit as far as the Hawks are currently constructed and I am not liking the idea of the Hawks taking Trae Young with the lottery pick.  More than anything, I just think it better to not have to integrate four rookies and would rather use that capital for the best prospect.  With the minor league being an option,  it would make sense if the 2nd was not at the tippity top to otherwise stash overseas or G league.

While I will grant you we will no doubt get the 7th pick by Hawkian logic, we have I think a 13% chance of getting the first.  I am hoping worst case to bundle the 30th and the 2nd rounder along with the lottery pick to move up for Doncic or Aynton.

21 minutes ago, Dejay said:

What you just say???

That was hopefully in jest.  I am kinda scared about how this draft and offseason is going to play out.  Mostly pretty resigned to us taking some pretty onerous contracts for the 26th pick in the 2020 draft or whatnot.

So the reported final four are Pierce, Tibbets, Silas, and Larranaga with Pierce in the lead.  Kinda figured Collins would have made it to this point.  Just not sure what the Sixers has done to make it worth going after Pierce.  No doubt X, Y, or Z franchise player has kissed the ring in regards to him, but sure the other three have their acolytes.

What Boston has done is an amazing accomplishment.  That said, accomplishment seems pretty low on the agenda with the tank not even being at the end of the beginning stage.  At least the draft will be fun to watch considering the number of picks.  Well prior to us sending both the Houston and Minny picks for Carmelo anyway.

Considering folks get fined for stating the obvious in regards to tanking, Bud was in a no win situation.  Does not take a genius or "insider" or whatnot to know that of course he was no happy about losing the GM gig and having to coach the gutted remains of what he had built whilst tanking.

ESPN has Budenholzer and Monty Williams being the favorites for the Bucks gig.  Would think it will boil down to who the Greek prefers.  In addition, ESPN is reporting this morning that Lloyd Pierce is going to be interviewed a second time by us.  That might be cruel for Pierce after finally digging out from those years in the desert working with Brett Brown in Phila he would be going to us just one year in.

5 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Or how about admitting that Lebron James is arguably one of the 3 greatest players of all time?

And as a person that actually likes to go to games and watch them live, I'm definitely not cool with watching a bad Hawks team for years on end.

Truer words.  Now that franchises can get away from catering first and foremost to season ticket and walk up ticket holders thanks to the massive increase in TV revenue they can put out garbage and cash in when the LeBrons and so forth come to town.

I am hoping that with so many other franchises purposely tanking between the change to the lottery and so much competition to the race to the bottom that perhaps we turn out of the skid.  Getting one of the top two picks really might accelerate things.

While perhaps not irreplaceable, I struggle to see anyone currently available being better.  I do think his system when coupled with someone like Antetokounmpo could win big.  I certainly think high enough of him that at minimum ownership would not be on the line for his salary.  Be pretty interesting to hear more about how it got to this once Budenholzer goes to another team perhaps.

47 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

3 years compared to Bud's 5

I get the Drew comparison.  That said, I still maintain Budenholzer is the best coach I have seen coach the Hawks.  All that matters now is who we replace him with.

53 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

When Bud was hired, the team had been in the playoffs 5 straight years.  Smith joined a team in disarray.  Not only did they finish with 4 wins in the previous season but their quarterback was thrown in prison.  Dimitroff was a 1st year GM just like Schlenk...The Hawk's ownership was in more disarray during the Larry Drew years but Drew still managed to have a higher winning percentage than Bud with less talent.

No doubt Ferry's moves made a large impact on what MB was able to do.  The Vick thing was tragic and I still wonder what might have been with him and Petrino.  However, Matt Ryan has been legit and by the time Smitty was replaced Ryan was hitting his prime.

As for the Drew comparisons, what are the numbers when discounting this past season?   Though I certainly do not know this to be true, I would think GM's and owners collectively would throw out most of a coaches losses and years when the tank is on.  Also, Drew coached a very short time here.