hawks21

Ivan is a turnover waiting to happen

Turnover machine? So is Josh-- especially on fastbreaks. So is Marvin-- when he gets stripped while attempting to attack the basket. However, Ivan is a stronger post threat and has shown to be more of a defensively sound player who is willing to defend the basket.

Ivan's first instinct to get to the basket and rebound while Josh and Marvin rather RETREAT from the basket.

I don't know what game he was looking at but smith was guarding Brand and vice versa. the problem was the Brand got all of those rebounds because Smith is too much of a p*ssy to bang with him. He stayed out chucking jumpers that Brand simply collected because Smith wasn't there to challenge him. While I don't feel that anyone on this team is above being traded or can improve their play, it seems that some of you go out of your way to put the ills of this team on Marvin Williams.

Marvin is a forward who plays starter's minutes along with Josh and they both take turns battling Elton Brand and as the game progressed, Brand got more confident while Josh and Marvin shrunk from the challenge in defending the basket and rebounding the ball.

Marvin deserves criticism along with Josh. This team has enough shooters, but need TRUE POST PLAYERS who can excel in the half-court game and draw more fouls.

Josh has his good moments, but his propensity to shoot those 18 ft. jumpers instead of beating players off the dribble like a Kevin Martin or a Kevin Durant or a David West is problematic.

If Josh or Marvin are erratic shooting the basketball or even dribbling in traffic, struggle in the half-court and is half-hearted when defending someone such as Elton Brand, they should be on the trade block.

Wait.....so because Marvin is 245 and Josh is 225 your assumption is that it's Marvin who's playing PF despite the fact he's defending strictly and being defended strictly by wing players? I guess Bosh is the SF and Lebron the PF in Miami too if we are to not watch games, lose all common sense and base players' positions simply on how much they weigh.

Marvin is not a power forward and despite Josh's weigh loss, he is not a true small forward. Both of these guys are tweeners who don't have a position and lack a skillset that prohibits them from being an All-Star or consistently productive player on this team . Josh is a finesse player who doesn't want to play inside and struggles in the half-court game.

Josh losing the weight hasn't made him a better player overall. Marvin at 6'9, 245 is more tentative than Josh, but has the same type of deficiencies as Josh, but struggles attacking the basket along with getting to the free throw line.

I am not basing positions on how much they weigh, but their skillset and production...and Josh's efforts to lose weight hasn't made him a better player and shouldn't warrant any comparisons to Bosh or LeBron.

Marvin is a SF and should only be playing PF under circumstances were it makes us better. Ivan should be playing PF almost all of the time when he's on the floor, although I can see situtations where he'd be effective at C for small stretches of time.

I hope to see Ivan playing more at power forward. In the road game vs. Philadelphia, Ivan only played 4 minutes and Marvin played 26 minutes. Overall, the Hawks got rebounded 51-32. Marvin had his shot blocked a few times and led to a fast break for the Sixers.

If Marvin can't get to the free throw line or finish at the rim along with rebound, his on-court value as a contributor should affect his playing time.

On Friday night, it was Elton Brand vs. Marvin Williams and Brand had one of his better games which included a 16-rebound effort. Zaza did play 20 minutes, but Marvin got the majority of minutes at forward.

When Josh lost all that weight (down from 245+ to 220+) during the offseason and you combine he and Marvin being on the floor together at the same time, Marvin is usually the power forward.

Marvin plays more like an oversized shooting guard with little athleticism who is reluctant to shoot three's. McGrady is eight years older and has better post and small forward skills than Marvin.

Ivan Johnson should receive more playing time at the power forward position and if that means Marvin has to sit, then so be it.

Johnson has scored in double figures in at least three games since his home debut against Miami a few weeks ago.

Johnson plays with more effort and even though Marvin is an overall better shooter, Johnson provides a stronger post presence.

It seems that Marvin can NEVER finish at the rim and ALWAYS has his shot block if he is under the basket. When Williams is in traffic under the basket, it a stronger probability he will have the basketball blocked, stripped or just fumbled it out of bounds.

Williams is 6'9 , 245 pounds, but plays like he is 5'9 160.

This happens entirely too much. Ivan had his shot blocked occasionally (but not frequently), and he finished stronger around the basket and I believe moving forward this is what this team needs on a nightly basis.

For those who watched the game, let's be fair about this and not throw stones at other core players in defense of favorites. It was a sad "performance".

Our team...at full strength and playing at home...against MIA without their two primary stars, not only played poorly, but played uninspired (nice word for lazy). It was so bad that our coach brought in an untested 11th player off the bench to get energy.

Luckily Ivan did bring the energy - as well as some quality play - and we got back in a game that we looked to be out of. We even got what looked to be a fairly safe lead late and LD took our "energy player" out so the vets could finish the game (which they didn't, due to more lazy play).

Then we start the 1st overtime and get behind off of poor defense and stagnant offense - LD brings in the "energy guy" again and he leads us to a second O.T. Then, same EXACT thing happens in the second O.T.

Finally, LD leaves Ivan in the game for the start of the third O.T. and he fouls out. On cue we fold and lose.

I could go on and on about all of our "core"...Marvin strolling around, stepping out of bounds in OT, scoring like 7 points. Smoove firing away from the perimeter as usual, JJ fumbling the ball around, Horford looking out of sync, and Teague shooting 1 for 12 and only 50% on FTs.

It was as if our core simply refused to buckle down and put in the effort. I honestly believed that after the first half our guys would get their rears in gear and hustle and get the job done - boy was I mistaken tonight.

The 'core' failed, but this is their profile. Look at the box score: Joe Johnson took the most shots and MISSED the most shots and Josh Smith took the second most shots in a 6-for-17 performance. Josh Smith led the the team last season in TURNOVERS in regard to the fastbreak and the ball ends up in his hands just as much as Teague and on most nights more than Horford.

Josh Smith's minutes and role should be reduced along with Joe Johnson.

Ivan while he came to play also had a lot of stupid moments as well that wasn't exposed by Miami due to Miami offensive inept play in the 4th. I liked Ivan a lot but I am holding reservation on him till he does this for more than a game v. Bron/Wade-less Heat.

You're right in regard to having reservations, but the Hawks need to change their 'profile' in the front court. Josh, Marvin , Al, Zaza has monopolized the minutes for the last five years and have been given a chance to 'grow'....

Right now, the Hawks are the 2nd oldest team in the NBA, so there has to be a REAL opportunity younger players who can develop... Miami played younger players such as Norris Cole and even Dexter Pittman for extended minutes. Coach drew has to do the same thing.

I had been critical of Marvin, but he is the epitome of what's wrong with this team in regard to the 'soft' profile and dealing with adversity in contested games AGAINST GOOD TEAMS or team that doesn't have Wade and/or LeBron playing. Marvin make mistakes. Joe makes mistakes. Josh makes mistakes... and it is the same ones which had been going FOR years. Plus, there is a different type of tentativeness that plagues each of these players which keeps them from maximizing their potential.

I am not saying Ivan is the savior, but provides the type of impact plays that someone such as a Grant Long or Tyrone Corbin used to make back in the 1990's. Long or Corbin weren't great players, but a physically tough players who can score the basketball..

It is probably impossible to trade Joe Johnson right now, but at some point the focus of this team has to go away from JJ as a primary option and Josh Smith as well.

The profile of the Hawks has to change from a soft, jump-shooting team with a sporadic basketball I.Q. to a more savvy, inside-conscious team that wants to get to the free throw line.

Ivan Johnson did provide a glimpse of what this team needs and has lacked on a night-to-night basis. I have admittedly been a little down on Al Horford, but I believe it time for the organization and coaching staff to ask more of him right now and that means JJ and Josh will be LESS of a focus.

It may be a little embarrassing for JJ and Josh, but it has to be done?

If this also means Ivan Johnson alternates between small and power forward and receives 30 minutes a game-- and other people's feelings get hurt (i.e. Zaza, Josh, etc.) then so be it.

I would like to see the team explore the possibility of whether this team can acquire DeMarcus Cousins. If the Hawks would trade him for Josh Smith, it would improve our inside game and one less subpar shooter the Hawks have to deal with.

Reggie Miller said about Josh shooting: "I'll take Josh Smith shooting outside jumpers every time..."

The Hawks have enough outside shooters, now we need more toughness from the forward and center positions.

I remember in last season's playoffs when the Hawks went away from Jeff Teague in Game 5 at Chicago and JJ started dribbling to one side of the court and Luol Deng, if I am not mistaken had stripped JJ and it led to a basket and 4th quarter Bulls' explosion that broke open a close game.

JJ's lack of explosiveness hurts him against the Bulls and inability to blow by defenders and get to the rim and draw fouls is problematic.

Kevin Martin or a Corey Maggette would be better options than JJ in those situations.

Drew has to allow Teague more opportunities to beat his man off the dribble and finish at the basket... yes, Teague is tentative, but to beat the Bulls, this has to be done.

JJ hasn't shown he can consistently beat Luol Deng off-the dribble and Johnson has been rather pedestrian.

Once again, Deng got the best of JJ on a last second play that helped the Bulls win on Tuesday night. Overall, JJ was 3-for-17.

Rose is the key to the Bulls success, but Deng has had some big games at JJ's expense.

It will be interesting what JJ does against Deng in Atlanta.

Should Marvin WIlliams get more playing time if JJ continues to struggle this bad, because Deng has been a common denominator in the Bulls' recent success against Atlanta.

It's sad if we have to hope for the vet min. guy to come and save this core group that is suppose to be elite. That should tell you all you need to know about this core

I have to agree.

Joe Johnson had a terrible shooting night and he really needed to earn that 120 million contract on this particular night on the road in a contested situation--in the fourth quarter.

McGrady can still blow by people, even at his advanced age, and attack the basket and/or make a good pass to a teammate... I just don't see that from Joe and Luol Deng got the best of him again--offensively and defensively.

T-Mac look dead for the whole game. No T-Mac. Marvin did his job on offense and defense.

I thought I would never say this, but I wish I saw more Marvin Williams in this game. When the Hawks went through a bad stretch in which Pargo hit a three point shot early in the 4th, the Bulls were making their move and Jeff Teague should have been inserted in the game earlier. If Derrick Rose is out there, then Teague should be OUT THERE... Coach Drew waited too long..

Teague did clam up late at the free throw line, but someone has to stay in front of Rose and pressure him FOR FOUR QUARTERS...it's tough to do, but Teague is the best person to do this--especially if he wasn't in foul trouble.

McGrady was apparently limited by injury, but the Hawks missed his presence on the floor who can attack the basket, draw fouls and rebound.

I hate to see Teague and Horford wilt a little bit under the pressure at the free throw line, but hopefully they can shake this off--fast.

We didn't see the 'second team' as a unit late in the third quarter and earlier in the game Marvin had success against Kyle Korver and Luol Deng in particular.

it was Pargo that Lowry blocked not Teague.

Teague is young and going to have bad games, so far this year besides today he has been great. This is his first season starting so give him some patience I believe he will be great for us this season.

You are right, it was Pargo... However, Teague appeared not to play with the type of intensity that we know he is capable. He wasn't playing aggressive, dunking over people when the opportunity presents itself or blocking people's shots from behind...

I hope Drew has patience.

Teague sucked. He was a bigger issue than Smoove tonight. Smoove played dumb but at least he also made plays. Teague did nothing good at all.

I hate to see Teague play tentative and be a bystander, and he needs to consider himself the first option in much the same way Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Russell Westbrook do.

And at some point, Teague has to totally take ownership of the team and NOT BE AFRAID TO TAKE ON HIS TEAMMATES such as Josh Smith... The Hawks was supposed to be more a fast-break team, and the Hawks were playing more at a half or 3/4 tempo...

It was pretty clear when he got sat 5 minutes into the game. What bothers me is that Drew won't sit Josh when he takes 22 footers or when Al plays soft or when Joe goes back to his iso ways

Josh was played too well early and was missing shots and free throws and Al was settling for too may outside jumpers himself, but Drew doesn't reprimand these guys by sitting them down.

You are right, Drew has a MUCH quicker hook for Teague, and it really hurts the team more when he shows that DOUBLE STANDARD

The Chicago Bulls' head coach isn't AFRAID to sit Derrick Rose down for a extended minutes (it was done in last year's playoffs against the Hawks!)and Rose accepts it and tries to learn from his mistakes and isn't pouting on the bench... The coaching staff is being enablers to Josh Smith who can get a little emotional if things aren't going his way...

Coach Drew appeared on SPORTSOUTH after the game and in the post-game interview he had talked about the point guard play.

Drew said a point guard can still influence a game WITHOUT scoring a lot of points. Case in point Kyle Lowry who had a career-high 18 assists.

Teague needed to provide that energy early and it just didn't materialize a whole lot in his thirty minutes on the floor and Drew had talked about there should have been more defensive pressure placed on Lowry.

And when Lowry had blocked Teague's shot I believe symbolized Teague's whole night. Teague SHOULD HAVE DUNKED THAT... Teague was just too casual and with a team with a lot of "older" players, Teague has to SET THE EXAMPLE at all times when he is on the court...

Teague has the ability to block shots as well as beat people off the dribble and dunk in people's faces... and it seems that tentativeness affected his game against the Rockets...

I hope Drew doesn't BENCH HIM, but hope Teague learn from this game...

Horford was in hiding for major parts of the game. Him and Josh have been having major communication issues this season. Josh had a bad Josh game. So many errors all around.

I have to agree, Big Al was a non-factor and I believe he started the game missing three consecutive jumpers. I don't think he ever attempted to take it strong to basket to draw a foul.. He just settled and I believe that set a negative tone for the whole team. As for Josh, when I saw him look very bad attempting free throws in the first quarter, it appeared to be an indication that it could be a long night.

In the past the Hawks had difficulty in guarding Yao Ming a few years back and a younger T-Mac, but now the Rockets are primarily an undersized, jump-shooting team and the Hawks can't match up.

The Hawks can't guard Scola, Kevin Martin or even Chase Buddinger on a consistent basis....and made Kyle Lowery look like at All-Star.

Where's the perimeter defense?

At times, it seems like the Rockets just out-hustle the Hawks and Houston was playing their third game in three nights.

I know this team has played four games in five days, but so has everybody else.

So no trades... wow I actually thought the hawks were gonna get enes kanter but they didnt. So they just give up right there. This is going to be a long offseason in my opinion.

Didn't the Hawks back in the day waited a couple of days after Dominique was drafted by Utah and then got him in a trade?

I hope the Hawks don't give up... some more changes are needed...

21st in college PER. He can play. The key will be adding bulk and avoiding foul trouble.

Not bad for a 48th pick.

I just hope Keith isn't a taller version of Marvin Williams or the next Hilton Armstrong.

The Hawks weren't as athletic as many people suggested and with a backcourt of aging Joe Johnson, a 30-something Jamal Crawford and even though Hinrich done alright-- he is 30 years old...

Jeff Teague's emergence is great, but another playmaking, athletic guard who can play defense (break down defenses) is needed along with an athletic small forward with a skill set of a Carmelo Anthony, but can defend... (Stacey Augmon with a reliable jump shot)

Marvin Williams is likely gone, but who is going to defend Lebron next year for the Hawks?

Philadelphia's athleticism bothered the Hawks this past season and resulted in one of those home blowouts, so I hope management addresses this concern of the lack of athleticism at the guard and small forward positions.

Jeff Teague provided a glimpse of what kind of style is effective against a team like the Bulls, but this team needs more players such as Teague if the Hawks are going to compete against the Bulls, Heat and even Philly...

You had expectations for Josh Powell and Hilton Armstrong? That's news in itself.

LOL. At first, I TRULY DID. However, then reality set in...

At least find bench guys who can PLAY STRONG DEFENSE and HIT FREE THROWS (at the very least).. Look at that Memphis team with Tony Allen, Sam Young, Darrell Arthur, etc. These guys might not be great offensive players, but they play with an attitude... and effort

Armstrong was a thrown in the trade with Washington. This way the Hawks franchise didn't feel like it was such a bad trade. Washington ripped us off completely and they knew it...see Hilton Armstrong.

The Hawks should have found a way to keep "he who's name shall not be mentioned"..

Mullin was right, and there wasn't a sense of urgency for GAME 3 or GAME 6 and the Hawks' regular season home record suffered this year which included MULTIPLE BLOWOUTS by 20 or more points.

Jeff Teague seemed like the only person playing at the type of level that was capable of beating the Bulls. Unfortunately, everybody else played like cement was in their shoes.

I am disappointedin this BENCH with the supposedly athletic Hilton Armstrong and Josh Powell were mostly M.I.A. or DNP during their tenure with the Hawks. At first I thought these acquisitions would strengthen the bench--especially defensively.

WHY KEEP ACQUIRING PLAYERS WHO WON'T PLAY OR CAN'T PLAY?

I'm all for shaking things up but please god don't trade into the lottery we have screwed that up enough... Trade for proven players

Sign and trade Jamal Crawford for Corey Maggette (Their salaries match)

I know the Hawks have messed up in the draft lottery in previous years, but what about KEMBA WALKER being given consideration?

CLOSEOUT GAMES

May 12, 2011 CHI L 93-73

May 10, 2010 ORL L 84-98

May 11, 2009 CLE L 74-84

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The Dallas Mavericks got rid of Steve Nash and Erick Dampier a few years back in an effort to get tougher. Jason Terry was pushed to a sixth man role in favor of Jason Kidd along with acquiring JJ Berea and Mavs picked up Tyson Chandler and Brandon Haywood.

Jamal Crawford's should not be re-signed. Marvin should be traded or released. And Josh Smith should be used as trade bait to either get in the lottery or to get another veteran player who can help this team at the small forward position.

I can't recall a team losing three CONSECUTIVE YEARS in the semifinals AT HOME... The Hawks need to get away from that finesse, jump shooting reputation and find another back-up point guard with speed and athleticism and this team need to find a way to acquire someone such as DeAndre Jordan or a Andrew Bynum