hawks21

Dolfan....you can't be serious. The layup by Josh where he was pushed out of bounds by Ryan Anderson, the blatant moving screen where Josh got crushed and went to the floor and didn't get up right away (in the first), the back to back moving screens in the 4th (one of which Crawford was called for a foul instead of Dwight). Heading into the 4th quarter there had been 37 foul calls in 36 minutes and a total of 23 turnovers.....That is a foul or T/O every 40 seconds. I am not a big fan of blaming the officials but I'm willing to step out there and say this game was fixed. I have no question in my mind the refs were calling this for Orlando to extend the series.

Yes we missed some big shots (see Marvin here) but in a 6 point game, the Magic were sent to the line and converted 18 more free throws. Horford was sent to the bench with 2 fouls in the first 3 minutes. This is the very defintion of a fix. Remember the NBA makes about 10 million dollars in total revenue for each playoff game played with the home team making about 1.5 million in pure profit per game.

If this type of officiating happened in New York, Boston or Chicago, I believe there would be extra scrutiny of the referee calls and ESPN would be more critical.

This is the anatomy of a fix, and Al Horford getting two fouls in the first three minutes was the first clue. And Jason Collins got is second foul early in the second quarter. The Hawks were able to get a 32-22 lead, but with Horford and Collins on the bench, Orlando started to take control of the game.

At the same time, the officials were swallowing the whistle in regard to Dwight who should have been called for at least three fouls at halftime. Howard ended up playing a FULL 48 minutes with NO worry of getting into foul trouble.

I saw this...

Marvin Sucks.

Damien should get more time...

Damien would be a better option as well, at this point. Marvin is a non-factor and Marvin seems he is content with watching as the other team scores.

Damien is a consistently, more aggressive scorer and brings athleticism that Marvin fails to display on a consistent basis.

The officiating was bad and for Dwight Howard to get his first foul in the middle of third quarter was ridiculous. There were at least three or four times in which moving screen fouls could have been --should have been called...

There was a play in the third quarter Smoove was fouled on a basket.

SOMETHING IS GOING ON...and Coach Drew should follow suit and did what Portland coach Nate McMilliam did and publicly admonish the refs before the series begin in Atlanta..

The refs clearly influenced the game with the whistle and let Dwight get away with fouls that should have been called MUCH EARLIER IN THE GAME..

And to be clear I'm not pumping up Marvin Williams. There's s distinct difference between an NBA role player which is what Marvin is not a starter versus a D League project.

C'mon get serious before you start a thread here.

Seriously, Marvin plays like a D-League prospect on most nights... and can he ever finish at the rim without falling down and turning the basketball over...?????

You can make excuses for Marvin, but the facts are there for everybody to see.

Coach Woodson tried to challenge Marvin during the playoffs TWO YEARS ago when the Hawks played Cleveland in the second round...

And even though Marvin has been seeing more of the bench, he had been starting for most of his career....and having little impact.

Dude, Smoove is starting at the 3. Have you been watching any of these two games?

Dude, Smoove is not a natural small forward. He is playing out of position and still puts up way too many 18-foot jump shots.

The refreshing thing about being a "retired mod" is I can now say this is one of the dumbest threads I've ever seen on this site.

And I've seen some crazy stuff

The crazy thing is that Marvin Williams is still on this team, and still hasn't done virtually anything during the playoffs. THAT IS DUMB. And people keep saying he will come around as a player. HE HAS BEEN IN THE LEAGUE SIX YEARS.

With Marvin Williams going 1 for 6 against Orlando, and being a non-factor, why not let Pape Sy get some minutes because he couldn't do any worse.

Historically, the Hawks have had problems guarding smaller point guards. Everything worked out and the Hawks shot 51 percent as a TEAM in Game One. However, as Dwight Howard said in a AJC story. This isn't the NCAA tournament or a one-game elimination. The Hawks must win four of seven games.

Jamal Crawford is spending too much time as the "backup" point guard and he doesn't have a track record of being an above-average defender especially against smaller guards or making his teammates better with great passes for assists.

Crawford's streaky shooting may make some forget his other shortcomings, but usually he isn't an efficient scorer and it takes a high number of shots for him to be comfortable, but this could play into the Magic's hands if Crawford CONTINUE to get extended minutes as if he is a STARTER which forces JEFF TEAGUE TO BE ESSENTIALLY BENCHED.

Jameer Nelson is going to be a problem all series long--win or lose.

When Crawford's shot is not falling, he becomes a liability. Someone such as a Derrick Rose attacks the basket relentlessly when his outside shot isn't falling and gets to the free throw line or is thinking about making his teammates better..

Coach Drew has to be careful because things could get OUT OF CONROL with the Magic three-point shooters if Jameer isn't allowed to break the Hawks perimter down..

Dwight Howard is having a monster series, but the Hawks perimeter defense on Jameer Nelson has to be tight- ALL GAME LONG...

Plus, Joe Johnson is not a natural point guard and has some difficulty defending smaller, quick guards.

Hinrich played 28 minutes in Game One..Teagu had a DNP-CD

I agree that the use of Teague tonight was ineffective, but for a different reason - we needed him to have more minutes with the first unit rather than the second. I think he showed that he fits better with the first unit in the games he started, but we haven't seen him play many first unit minutes since then.

That being said, Teague wasn't effective against TP tonight in the few possessions he tried. He still doesn't move his feet consistently. It doesn't matter how much footspeed you have if you don't move your feet. And offensively, Teague is just a nonentity. On too many possessions, he just passes the ball to Jamal and gets out of the way, which basically makes him...well, a nonentity.

The refs called way too tight a game on reach-ins tonight. It was bizarre. A lot of fouls against Hinrich and Damien are calls you don't ordinarily see made.

Teague makes fundamental mistakes, but Drew and the staff has to keep 'coaching him up' and keep him in the game with regular minutes. Teague does have an impact defensively and early in the game he attacked the basket and got fouled.

I wish he was more of a Kemba Walker type of player, but Teague's skillset defensively has to be on the floor.

The Spurs didn't run away from the Hawks and didn't beat us by 30, but Teague's presence is more positive than negative despite his limitations and experience.

San Antonio is a fundamentally sound team, but the Spurs' fast guards has always been a problem for the Hawks. Jeff Teague needed to play more like 20 to 24 minutes and with the likes of George Hill, Tony Parker and Manu Ginaboli.

Kirk Hinrich doesn't have the foot speed of Teague and got into foul trouble while defending Parker. and Manu.

Hinrich is a better defender than Bibby, but I would like to see Teague more at PG and maybe move the 6'4 Hinrich at shooting guard for a few minutes.

However, a turning point was when Teague committed a turnover when Jamal Crawford didn't come to the ball and the Spurs push their lead to five. The game wasn't over, and it was a mistake, the first and only turnover for Teague. However, I believed Drew OVER-REACTED when called timeout and yanked Teague... and then it opened the door for the Spurs' guards to drive even more at Hinrich.

Drew has to accept HIS SUCCESS as coach is predicated on the development and impact of Jeff Teague..

The trade of Mike Bibby pretty much put Teague in a sink or swim situation.

Teague's speed and defense has to be on the floor at PG at least 20 to 24 minutes-- or more..

Against Orlando in the playoffs, who's going to defend Jameer Nelson--- Jamal or Jeff Teague..?

It's too much thinking for LD to do.

The rotations: (Small Lineup)

PG = Hinrich 31 mpg; Teague 17 mpg.

SG = Joe 24 mpg; Crawford 24 mpg.

SF = Marvin 18 mpg, Joe 16 mpg; Damien = 6 mpg; Josh = 8 mpg.

PF = Smoove = 30 mpg; Horf = 18 mpg.

C = Horf = 20 mpg; Zaza = 15 mpg; Armstrong = 10 mpg; Collins = 3 mpg.

It's this simple. LD has to start conditioning these guys that Hinrich and Teague will be the ball handlers.

Joe Marvin and Crawford will have to learn to play going towards the basket. Where is our drive game? Teague will have to master the drive and dish. Smoove and Horf will have to move towards the rim on every possession.

We are not the spurs. We are not a jump shooting team. And even the Spurs have a strong drive presence. I watched them play last night and their guards make their game.

Diesel:

CONDITIONING is the operative word for the Hawks team and the Larry Drew. Mike Bibby is gone, but allowing JJ and Jamal to bring the ball up and start the offense is a losing proposition.

For better or worse, Jeff Teague has to 'sink or swim', and we should be encouraged by what he did against Portland earlier this month.

If Hinrich isn't on the floor, then Teague should be in control of the basketball and initiating the offense. The Hawks have to be "conditioned" to play a different style of basketball and Larry Drew has to TRUST Hinrich and Teague to get the job done for the remainder of THIS season.

JJ and Jamal as point guards is a slow death, and we saw what happened when the team struggled to score in the 4th quarter against the Sixers. Teague is not a great shooter, but Rondo wasn't either in his early days at Boston. Doc Rivers kept going to Rondo and didn't sit him down every other game back in 2007. KG, Pierce and Ray Allen adjusted to Rondo's style. And we didn't see Ray Allen hogging the ball as the PG half the time either.

JJ was billed as a PG when he was traded to Atlanta in 2005, but the Hawks were not a playoff team with JJ as the primary ball handler. Only when Bibby came in 2008, is when there was more structure. Now JJ and now Jamal along with Josh MUST 'condition' their games for the betterment of the team.

Philadelphia currently leads the league in BENCH POINTS with 40 points a game... Doug Collins really gets the most out of his bench and then some.

Larry Drew made a terrible coaching decision in having an ineffective Jamal and JJ share the point guard duties and this is something that we have seen before in which the Hawks can't initiate offense.

Hinrich didn't get back into the game until the five-minute mark of the 4th quarter (the Hawks led after three quarters), after the Sixers came all the way back and the Hawks lost all momentum with JJ-Jamal as the PGs.

Jamal Crawford is a shooting guard. He had a chance tobe the starting point guard during the first nine years of his career and NONE OF HIS TEAMS never made the playoffs, prior to accepting a sixth man role in Atlanta.

Hinrich is not Russell Westbrook, but if he isn't in serious foul trouble and not hurt either he or JEFF TEAGUE should be handling the point guard duties.

Hinrich isn't a savior or Steve Nash, but Drew should already know that JJ or Jamal Crawford aren't point guards and leaving them out there in that position in a contested game, it is more likely to be a disaster.

I agree that the Hawks have problems, but this thread doesn't pose any solutions. Everybody likes to pin the blame on LD, but take a look at the roster before you criticize the coach. The Hawks' bench is one of the worst (and oldest) in the league. They have 3 big men who are basically useless (Armstrong, Collins, Powell). Zaza is average, aging and extremely foul prone. I like Damien Wilkins, but he is 31 and isn't skilled enough to be playing major minutes. Then you have Marvin, who is average at best and overpaid. Jamal Crawford is streaky, makes a lot of money, and is getting old.

You don't see teams with benches like these going deep in the playoffs. IMO, the Hawks should let Crawford, Armstrong, Powell, Collins, and Etan Thomas walk at the end of the year when their contracts expire, and bring back Damien as a role player in defensive situations. Then they need to go out and get some players to bolster the bench. With the cap space they gain when Jamal leaves, they will be able to look at some quality players.

And if you are criticizing LD for not playing Teague enough, did you see how he played in the last 2 games? He is raw and needs to develop. He can grow into a very good player but in some situations he is a liability out there and should be on the bench.

Larry Drew does deserve some criticism. Everybody is getting older, but you can't be afraid to use your bench to shake things up. Offseason decisions need to be made, but ignoring the bench totally isn't the answer. Etan, Jason and Hilton could have played a few minutes apiece.

Josh Smith has been more of a liability with his shot selection than Teague in the past few games. Last week in Chicago, Josh opened the door for Derrick Rose and the Bulls to score a bunch of points, and once again Josh couldn't resist against the Nuggets in shooting a bunch of bad shots...

Ty Lawson and Raymond Felton had a big impact on the game, and Coach Drew had taken Teague out of the game for most of the second half, and it seemed the tempos slowed down considerably.

Zaza had a nice game, but where was Hilton Armstrong and Jason Collins? This is a coaching error by Drew to let Nene control the game in the second half.

Josh Smith's negatives outweigh positives.

Whether it's in the form of an extended benching or possible trade, something has to be done.

Josh is challenging authority right now, and this behavior deserves a severe sanction.

I wondered the exact same thing and wondered why LD didn't pull him after the third consecutive bonehead play. This team is seriously flawed if they believe the power forward can play around the 3 point line and not around the basket. It's bad enough they take too many outside shots and not drive to attempt to go to the free throw line to change momentum.

It really looks like JOSH SMITH is daring Coach Drew to take him out..and trying to see how many negative plays can he pile up before Drew do so..

Josh Smith needs to be traded while he still has some value..and it may be addition by subtraction...

Josh isn't going to change his tempermental ways..

And if Coach Drew can't handle Josh Smith, then TRADE HIM NOW...

Josh Smith almost single-handedly gave away any momentum the Hawks had during a nine-minute stretch in the third quarter and it allowed Derrick Rose to have a big THIRD QUARTER.

Josh threw up three consecutive bad shots in the third quarter and turned the ball over, and AFTER A TIMEOUT, DREW STILL LEFT HIM IN THE GAME...

Was Drew afraid Josh will have a temper tantrum on the bench?

Jamal took a bad shot coming around a screen on the wing, and he missed an open 3 point shooter, hogged the ball, and then missed the shot. Joe Johnson was forcing up bad shots against Landry Fields, and only finished with 14 points and once again missed every 3 he shot. Al Horford didn't look like his head was in the game.

Carter in the 3rd is just as relevant as you saying Kirk lost the game in the 4th.

Regardless, one of those TOs was downright terrible, but to say he lost the game for us is asinine. Especially when the game didn't start getting out of hand until Stoudemire and Williams hitting shots. I guess that's Hinrich's fault too.

Hinrich isn't the ultimate solution, but he is the STARTING POINT GUARD and Joe and Josh MUST ACCEPT that...

Josh Smith can't co-exist with anyone on the offensive end. I think Horford went the entire 3rd quarter without touching the ball.

Teams just sit back and laugh and watch as Smoove settles for jump shots all night.

It is amazing that the Hawks were able to come from behind and beat Chicago with Derrick Rose (WITHOUT JOSH SMITH)...but struggle a lot against the Knicks who didn't have Chauncey...

Al Horford should be FOCUS of this team..

I rather have a true forward such as a Brandon Bass rather than Josh Smith. Bass knows his limitations and knows he isn't a POINT GUARD.

That on-court behavior by Josh and even Joe Johnson in freezing out Hinrich is a PROBLEM that needs to be dealt with..

Josh Smith is a talented player, but he isn't a point guard... and a couple of times against the Knicks, Smith held the ball without acknowledging Hinrich and committed turnovers.

Josh and Joe Johnson need to TRUST HINRICH more ...Joe isn't a point guard either and it appears he was freezing out Hinrich while he is on the floor..

Josh Smith is a blessing and a curse, but his ego may be the biggest problem right now..

Welcome to last week. How much do you charge to take a ride in your time machine? I've always wanted to try one out.

LOL... it is worth repeating.. maybe Sund will get the message...before the trade deadline expires...

Tito Horford, on Tuesday, talked to the Atlanta Journal-Consitution's Jeff Schwartz:

"I've been begging [general manager] Rick Sund and the Hawks for the last three years -- please get a center so my son can play his normal position," the elder Horford said Tuesday from his home in the Dominican Republic. "He can't push guys out of the box like I could. If he moved to forward, he would have a longer career."

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2011/02/08/al-horford-an-all-star-at-center-but-hes-taking-a-beating/?cxntfid=blogs_jeff_schultz_blog

I always thought Javaris Crittenton had the skillset to be a NBA guard, and recently he had signed with a NBA developmental team. If the Hawks make no moves this year and go out the same way the did last season against Orlando, I suspect some changes.

Whether Teague stays or not, bringing in Criitenton would introduce new competition at the point guard position

The Hawks are in a comfortable spot right now, but losing by +30 points at home within a two weeks span is a very bad sign. Teams destined for the NBA finals don't have those type of games or even division winners.

The profile of this team has to change, and the local media needs to be MORE CRITICAL of Rick Sund for not being more active in trying to make this team better. Teams such as Orlando, Chicago and New Orleans have made multiple moves over the course of the season to fix their deficiencies...or at least try..

I wish the Hawks were in the Carmelo sweepstakes, but after seeing Philadelhia beat the Hawks the way they did is something that should cause pause. Al Horford was out of the lineup, but where was Marvin Williams and Josh Smith? Of course, if Mike Bibby isn't making jumpers, he is a liability and against athletic guards such as Louis WIlliams and Jrue Holiday, it made things worse.

This team struggled last year against Milwaukee in the playoffs and got swept by Orlando. Now it appears Philly has the Hawks's number as well.

It was difficult to see the Hawks lose that badly in front of the home folks, but GM Sund needs to do something about that backcourt. If Larry Drew isn't going to use Teague in meaningful game situations, then a trade must happen prior to the All-Star Break.

Teague looks unsure when he receives a chance to play, so other options need to be explored.

The Pistons Will Bynum is an aggressive guard who isn't afraid to lead and even though is a little under-sized, he is a playmker similar to Nate Robinson.

Bynum constantly drives to the basket and challenges the opposing defense.

Bynum won't solve all the Hawks' problems, but I believe he would have a positive impact on this team..