OldTimeHawk

Oh , so the criteria is winning championships . So does that make Dominique the same class player Joe as Joe Johnson ? Or Lebron ? Or Wade ? You aren't going to suggest that Joe would be the go to guy on any teams with these guys ? Joe would be a piece .

as one of the best 2 guards in the league, Joe sure doesn't have the stats in this series to back up that claim . Personally , I'd like to see how the team develops with a new coach and Joe still with the team.

but I'm already thinking about next year. Hawks management better bring something in fresh or they will lose the fanbase .

ouch !

You can say the same about Wade and Lebron.

Wade needed Shaq to win a championship. Wihtout Shaq, Wade is a 1st round playoff exit at Best.

Lebron has been adding star players on his team since he got to Cleveland. Guess what, No ring.

Did Jordan not need Pippen?

How about Magic and Kareem?

How about Bird and the other two?

It's very difficult to find 1 player who can elevate his team anywhere without some help.

So if Joe ends up with the same fate as Dominique... Is that so bad?

Is that something worth giving up in his prime because you can't think of how to build around him?

I think we're smarter than that.. right?

ah , no you cant . Wade can carry a team by himself . Lebron can carry a team by himself . Jordon can carry a team , and so could 'Nique .

Let me be fair . Perhaps Joe deserves an incomplete , because I really don't think its fair to judge anyone in this travesty of an offense.

I really think we have players on the roster now that under the right coach can develop into great players . We need more size at center ( Would like to see what Collins can actually do as well as Teague given some playing time) . If Joe wants to be here , he will be here . The thing I'm worried about is an ownership group that is unwilling to go out and get us a decent player to replace him ( 15 ppg would do it , would love a pure shooter .)

A new coach with an offensive mind will run this team up and down the court. If we can sign Joe to a reasonable contract , I think we should , but no way in hell do we continue to run the offense exclusively through Joe . If hes hot , get him the ball , if not rotate the ball to the hot hand . Would love to see some inside strength and move Horford to PF

Joe is a nice complimentary player , but not a player to build a team around . Ask around the league , most folks will tell you the same .

They miss him because the offense has been ran exclusively through him for the last 5 years . Kind of hard to have someone be the court leader when the offense is basically give Joe the ball . It seems like he has to have the worst shooting percentage of any of the " superstars" plus he gets absolutely no four calls.

Who the heck was going to step up ? Who got the iso's in just about every regular season game ? You dont wait until a playoff game is on the line to look for other options , you develop them during the course of the season. Pathetic .

Welcome to OldTimeHawk.

Meltdown. Again. We've seen this too many times for it to be an accident.

That's just who we are. Makes one sick @ their stomach, doesn't it.

No one knows, apparently, how to stop these big scoring 4th quarters

by our opponents, regardless of who they are. And, sadly, we know that

no one knows how to score for the Hawks in the second half of any 4th quarter.

Was this the death toll for Woody? Probably. How can the Hawks think of

bringing him back after this? It's not all his fault. But, enough of the blame

has to fall on him - - Too much for him to survive.

Some might even say that it's worth losing like this just to be rid of Woody.

:help wanted3:

Thanks for the welcome . I actually place most of the blame on Woody . The coach is the central figure who doles out playing time , teaches , enforces , motivates. I spent the last couple of years watching him wear out the starters for a few more wins , never developing a bench , and running the offense through Joe J . to a point that others have never developed their offensive games . Once Joe was gone , the Hawks were done , mostly from the " what the hell do we do now attitude " than the lack of ability . It would have been nice during the season to see others that may have the hot hand during a game continue being pumped the ball.

I think Woody did the best he is capable of doing , but its either time to let a more experienced coach take over ( which I think will get immediate results ) , or keep Woody and blow it up ( which is crazy because we have crazy talent on this roster ) .

You know who I blame??

I blame the freakin CHICAGO BULLS for this lost.

How do you GIVE Milwaukee John Salmons for Hakim Warrick and Joe Alexander.

I believe that the Bulls made that lopsided trade because they knew that with Salmons, Skiles could outcoach Woody in the first round and force Joe to leave for ... Guess where? Chicago... To play with Wade and Rose.

.

lol , I hear ya , but the Hawks had a chance to shake up their roster too, not just for this year but for next year too , but did nothing. Its disturbing , but the management and ownership group really don't seem committed to anything other than to stay the course. But eventually you have to evaluate a teams weaknesses , and strive to fix them or continue to embrace the role of almost great. 50 game winners and we aren't even close to being an elite team . Discipline is the key ( plus a team concept on offense).

If you look at the season , the Hawks couldnt compete with the top 2 teams , and just slipped past a Boston team that was old and banged up most of the season. In a series , a good coach will exploit discipline and poor work ethic, which is what Skiles has done.

Thanks for preping the team Mike, it's time for a real coach to take this team to the next level.

Only thing I can add , is the Bucks coach Skiles has been able to motivate his players and play with the hand that was dealt him . Best thing about this series is the ownership group hasn't given Woody a contract extension and Woody has shown that he can't take this group any further. We still have a good core , we're very atheletic , we just need a coach that will develop a team style offense .

I don't think losing Joe Johnson is going to hurt the Hawks , provided we can get at 15 - 15 points a game player back. We have players that can , given the opportunity , be consistant scorers for us , but the offense and the iso Joe plays has hampered this team from developing leadership and their ability to step up in a crisis .

I honestly hope for the Hwaks to pull this out , but nothing they have showed me , including the first 2 wins , makes me think they are capable.

Look forward to a new coaching search ( and hopefully one with the experience and discipline to put the Hawks over the top.)