chillzatl

You are just biting on the same rehash that Chad Ford bites on. If by professional you mean he gets paid, then yes, he is a profressional. Truth be told he's just a guy who used to do the NBA section on a sports rumor site. ESPN picked them up a year or so ago and now he's getting paid to do it. That doesn't make him a real profressional though. He is not Jim Rome, Marty Burns or Peter Vescey.

So believe what you want. I'll believe what I see with my own eyes and what the stats tell me. Which is Jason Terry is this teams point guard now and for the future. And no overhyped, unproven rookie or the opinions of people who don't follow the team are going to change that.

I think what you meant is that the USSR had a good basketball program. Well, the USSR is gone and a lot of the countries that they used to be able to pick from for their players are their own countries now. So you hear about players coming from these smaller countries that used to be part of the larger soviet union.

Everyone is saying that Jersey will have such great D. Well who the hell cares. They had great D last year. Defense ISN'T their problem. Offense was their problem and is an even bigger problem now. Besides the fact that Deke is slipping more and more every year. He is still a presence. But that presence is FAR diminished from what it was just two years ago. New Jersey changed, they didn't get better.

Now on to philly. They got more talented out of this deal. But did they really get better? They got players that can run the floor and players who can score. The question is did they get anyone that Iverson will actually coexist with. KVH can score, no doubt about it. But he's soft as freshly chewed gum and he's an injury risk. Also remember that when he was drafted he publicly said that he didn't want to play in Philly with Iverson. How's that going to go over now? Iverson is one who takes "disrespect" like a typical street hood would and KVH disrespected him.

Philly got the better end of this deal talent wise. Simply because Deke is a shell of what he used to be. It will take time to see which team actually got better from this trade though.

As far as philly competing with us. I think they'd be tough for us regardless. But I think we are still a much better team on PAPER. They have nothing to compete with our front court, period.

New Jersey trades Todd Mac and Van Horn to Philly for Mutombo. Philly got the better end of the deal on this one. Deke is on his way down and has been for the last few seasons.

haven't been able to get online and comment on this big trade. Personally I think it was a great trade. I was one of the few, along with Diesel and some others, that felt we could/would get Big Dog. Though I don't think any of us felt we could get him for what we did. It was a good deal for both teams. Good for the bucks financial future and good for us talent wise. I can't wait for the season to start now!!

One thing though, I just have to offer up a steaming plate of crow for all the other would-be armchair GM's out there who said "the hawks have nothing of value". I've said all along that the real world value of a player is a LOT different than the fantasy value we all apply to them. There were people that felt Theo alone couldn't get us Big Dog because of his injuries and those that felt Toni wouldn't get us ANYTHING because of his contract and health. I guess it goes to show why they don't give GM jobs to fans like us.

anyway, go hawks!

For a guy who likes to "debate" these things you sure ignore what is said and the context of what is said often enough.

I never said it was about having "good shooters" I mean you like to talk about "easy assists" How freaking hard is it for Andre Miller to get assists with guys like Murry, Person and Davis around him? HUH? Every one of those guys shots 45% or better and two of them shoot better than 40% from the 3pt line. Drive to the basket and kick? YEAH, that's a really hard assist there?!?? TRY AGAIN. Miller has some VERY GOOD shooting players around him. If anything that takes away from his league leading assist total. So while he doesn't have a great team, he sure has 3 really good guys around him to help tally up some EASY ASSISTS. NEXT.

And in typical Diesel fashion you ignore what I said just so you can have something to say. Though it's a pointless something. I never said JT got better as our players BECAME BETTER SHOOTERS. NO. That's is NOT what I said. I said he became better as the players around him learned to play together better and became smarter on the court.

It never was an excuse. THat's just something you've come up with so you can have something to say. What it is, is fact. As the players learned the game better, JT was able to get assists that earlier in the season he woudn't have gotten.

Why don't you try actually READING other peoples posts instead of skimming over them in a rush to make another of your own? Sometimes I read your half thought out replies and I wonder if you even bother to really read posts that aren't your own.

Walter, you pointed out JT's %'s for the last month. While I think that alone shows that this guy has what it takes to be a gary payton level/style PG. It also shows that his team got better around him. Guys learned where to be and when to be there and that allowed JT to find them more easily. Credit for JT's assists don't just go to JT.

THis also spills over to what Diesel was saying about JT dumping the ball in to Reef to get an assist or going in and out with it looking for someone who was open. As opposed to bringing the ball up, setting something up and executing. A HUGE part of the difference between the two is the skill of the players around him. Early on JT didn't have a team capable of executing. Early on when some here were flaming the team/coach for not running plays. I often pointed out that our team just wasn't experienced enough to execute those plays regularly. As the season wore on the guys learned each other, improved and did a MUCH better job of it. I also point out again the many many times I saw JT hit Reef/Nazr/DJ/Hendu/Hanno with a BEAUTIFUL pass only to have them drop the ball, dribble it off their foot, look confused or charge into someone on the other team. As the team got better and he got better we saw a lot less of that.

JT CAN be a top 5 PG in this league. He's not there yet but I wouldn't hesitate to put him top 10 already. He's better overall than Bibby, Tinsley and parker. He's up there with Nash, Marbury, and Davis as far as overall ability goes.

His APG didn't just jump up all of a sudden at the mid-point of the season. He slowly and gradually brought them up. In the last month of the season it was near 8 apg. Your "system" only calculates the totals. It doesn't take into account the real world improvement that took place. Re-do your calculation over the last month of the season and lets see how those numbers look. He didn't/hasn't become a overnight master of the pg spot. But the numbers clearly show he evolved and improved at the position by the week. 7-8 APG is far beyond the "simple assist" realm that you've mentioned before.

Also you gloss over your own numbers here. You say that there wasn't much of a rise in assist in the 2nd half % wise. Well there was more of a rise there than in offense, which you incorrectly pointed out. 1.3% compared to 3.7%. He was looking to pass the ball more. If you look at his numbers in the last month when he was pulling near 8apg he certainly looks more like a PG. Who cares if he's a "pure pg" or not. That's nothing but magazine hype for guys who are first rate passers but lack some scoring ability.

sign me up. Christie is one of the top 2nd tier players in the league over the last few years. One of those "do what it takes" guys. I'd love to have him here.

But I would trade Toni for Penny. While both are shells of their former selves, I think Penny has the ability to be more consistant than Toni does now. If we could get him for Toni/Hendu level players I would do it.

I wouldn't move Reef for Marion. I love marions game but he just hasn't shown he can be the "main guy" and i'm not sure he has the game to do it, yet. He could develop it, but it's not there yet. Reef is the more acomplished player and has shown that he can be the main option and handle all the attention and pressures that come with it.

Amare is a nice throw in. But we'd be taking two steps back and hoping it would eventually take us a step forward. No way to tell if it would payoff in the long term. We wouldn't win more games than last years team though, not in our first season.

It's called his usual one good game out of 20. Give him a hendu like contract and you'll get another Hendu. You said it all. He has no desire whatsoever. He's not a rookie or even a 3 year player. The guy has been around a few years now. He will have a big game that makes all the critics ponder just how much talent this guy really has and then he'll go back to doing nothing.

It's funny how so many lable Nazr as "not being good enough" but in fewer years Nazr has done just as much as Keon Clark. You compared their stats molehill for tat last year and it's a wash. if you've seen them play I'd take nazr over him any day. because I know Nazr has work ethic and Keon, in five years, hasn't shown that he has the work ethic to rise above mediocrity and overhyped potential. He's not a great defensive player and 1.5 bpg doesn't change that. Racking up a big game once per month means jack, even if it's against us.

You can fall in love with him all you want and get suckered. I've seen the guy play enough that I'm not going to think we need him just because he's 'almost' 7' tall. He needs to go to New york. They are good at paying heartless big men more than they are worth.

please man, don't bill freakin Keon Clark as the next coming of Kareem ok. The guy has never done ANYTHING. He played 16 games like he actually could and people are talking about him like he's the tops of the free-agent list. My cats have more desire to play hard than he does and just about as much talent. Anyone who shells out a bunch of money to this guy will be SORELY disappointed.

A big man who can block shots and score??? WTF?? when has Keon CLark SCORED? That's the laugher of the week. He's NOT a scorer, he's a solid rebounder and a DECENT, not good not great, shot blocker. THAT IS IT. Nazr's numbers were neck and neck with Keon Clarks. The only difference is Clarks BPG were .70 higher. WHOoooo yeah he's a steal!

If we could get him for 2mil per season or for that price in a good SNT for some of our more undesirable players I would do it. Otherwise let someone like New York overpay him.

But I don't consider him a first or even second option that I would go after. He's a good defender and can do everything well. My only problem with him is that he's one of those guys that has never quite fit in anywhere he's been. He was supposed to be "the answer" everywhere he's been but he just never quite finds his game.

I agree with trace though, if we could get lewis for that pair (nazr/toni) i'd do it. I mean Seattle would LOVE that deal because more than likey they won't get anything for lewis anyway. So a young center and an aging SF would be a deal to them.

To me the ONLY benefit of getting E.Jones would be to have him playing along side JT. You'd have two guys who can fill the SG/PG role in tandem. That would probably be the highest scoring backcourt in the NBA, period. Without JT I have very little desire for Jones though. Sure he's a good defensive player but I'd need more to sweeten the pot than just B.Grand and Forte and apart from their new draft pick miami doesn't have much to offer.

This will be his 3rd season. He should be producing respectably this year. I think he did good last year. But obviously the staff and us, the fans, want more out of him and he has yet to deliver everything that his attributes hint is there.

In response to one of your comments though:

1. The offense was running through Dion at the summer league as the Hawks were trying to showcase him for trade bait.

I don't think so. Dion has played extremely well in these games for the last two years. He's just heads above the rest of the talent out there. He somewhat translated that into production on the floor last year before losing his will to play D resulting in lots of bench time. They may be shopping him and his performance in those games will help. but it's par for the course for Dion over the last two years. They weren't running things through him specifically for that reason and DJ wasn't getting left out in the cold just to showcase someone else.

somewhere a while back about Ed Gray signing up with the globetrotters. I think he's been there for a few years now. Lots of "old timers" on those two teams.

"He has what JT lacks... That's COURT Vision. JT will pass up 9 assists because he really doesn't see them. How many times have JT taken 2 dribbles too many before trying to make the pass. JT has never had court vision. That's why I sayin the second half, JT made the "easy Assists" You know the general pass to the post that ended up with Shareef scoring? DD is able to see a play develop. Will he be ready for NBA action?... We will see."

I don't see where you are actually seeing all this COURT VISION. Because he is small and white that means he has COURT VISION? Where was that court vision in college? If he has all this COURT VISION, he sure was using his scoring ability a LOT more than his court vision. I mean at the college level if he was seeing so much I would think he could hit his men for more than 4 apg. He didn't even rank in the top 50. So I just don't understand where you see all this court vision. The scouts DID NOT see it, the stats don't show it, where is it? Again, I'm not knocking DD, I think he'll be a solid player for us. I'm knocking YOUR over-evaluation of his abilities.

Also, JT was popping for 7.6APG in the final month of the season. That's well beyond the "simple assist" range. There are a lot more high profile PG's out there who also happen to have more around them than JT does and they aren't able to get even 6 "simple" apg. I watched every game and went to many. I saw JT make plenty of excellent, timely passes. What you call a lack of COURT VISION, I call growing into the role. The stats show that his assists went up nearly every month of the season and went up steadily over the last few months. Is it not possible that his COURT VISION improved just like the other facets of his pg game (ball handling, spacing, body control)? And is it not possible that it will continue to improve? I don't even consider it a possibility, I consider it a fact.

I didn't even know we played yesterday. Good to hear that the coaching staff is pushing DJ to go to the basket more and that he's actually doing it.

"Johnson came to camp 12 pounds heavier than last season, not enough weight for him to lose the nickname "Slim," or to start mixing it up in the middle. But Sunday, Johnson attacked the basket more and shot fewer 3-pointers while scoring a team-high 20 points.

Early in the week, Johnson seemed content on the perimeter. He shot nearly the same percentage from 3-point range (9-for-21) as he did from inside the arc (20-for-46), averaging 13.8 points a game. "

The more he does it, the more comfortable he's going to be doing it and the more he will do it in games. Once he adds that facet to his game, he will be a consistant 15+ppg player.

Summer league plan goes perfectly

By MICHAEL LEE

Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer

Boston -- Six games, six wins. The Hawks' run in Shaw's Pro Summer League, completed by an 85-68 victory Sunday against Boston, may not send shock waves through the NBA, but Hawks assistant coach Eric Musselman hopes it is a sign. A year ago, the two best teams here, New Jersey and Boston, went 5-1.

"They were the two teams that went to the Eastern Conference championship," Musselman said. "We were trying to establish a winning culture, and I think we did that."

Wins and losses were not the sole measuring stick. The Hawks were more concerned with the progress of center Theo Ratliff as he rehabs his hip, and the development of young players Dion Glover, DerMarr Johnson and Dan Dickau.

Glover kept his summer league success intact, earning tournament MVP honors.

Johnson came to camp 12 pounds heavier than last season, not enough weight for him to lose the nickname "Slim," or to start mixing it up in the middle. But Sunday, Johnson attacked the basket more and shot fewer 3-pointers while scoring a team-high 20 points.

Early in the week, Johnson seemed content on the perimeter. He shot nearly the same percentage from 3-point range (9-for-21) as he did from inside the arc (20-for-46), averaging 13.8 points a game.

Coach Lon Kruger and his staff still are waiting on Johnson's development as a defender. But he held Boston's Kedric Brown, a first-team all-summer league performer, to three points.

"I need that challenge," Johnson said. "During the season I've got to guard a lot of the league's top players."

Atlanta's first-round pick, Dickau, struggled in the last two days, possibly the result of fatigue from the six-games-in-seven-days schedule. Earlier in the week, Dickau seemed to find a rhythm with Glover and Johnson on the break. He got the Hawks into their offense, made crisp passes and took pull-up jumpers within the flow.

"Dan's a natural," Kruger said. "He's a mature player. He understands where the ball needs to go. He fits well with his teammates."

Musselman's wait

The word on Golden State's vacant coaching position could come in the next few days, but Musselman's chances have increased after Nets assistant Eddie Jordan withdrew from consideration this weekend. The Warriors will choose between Musselman and interim head coach Brian Winters. . . . The Celtics are close to a deal to acquire Vin Baker. Boston is said to be shipping former Georgia Tech point guard Kenny Anderson, Smyrna native Joseph Forte and Vitaly Potapenko to the Sonics for Baker and either Shammond Williams or Earl Watson.

The big test

Kruger said Ratliff, who played the last two days of the summer league, looked "stronger than last October." On Sunday, Ratliff scored six points and blocked three shots. The game also served as a good physical test -- he got to bang inside with the Celtics' 300-plus-pound center, Oliver Miller.

"The Big O is big," Ratliff said with a laugh. "I got in there and pushed around a bit. I just want to continue to increase my strength."

I don't think you can look at what DJ did at college or what he's done up till now and say "he is this type of player". I mean the kid is young. No highschool kid knows his game well enough to project it to the NBA level. There are lots of guys who were slashers in college and highschool and just can't do it in the NBA due to speed/size issues. I can totally understand why DJ didn't/doesn't go to the hole all that much. He just can't take the contact. Mugsy bogues could push him around for god sakes.

I know diesel likes to project DJ to be a certain kind of player and blames the coaches for him not living up to it. But you look at his body and his experience playing the game and you can't really say that he's this kind of player or that. I think he was brought in partly because of that. He has the tools and ability to be molded into a successful NBA player. Many people like Diesel see his body type and some of those attributes that I mentioned and instantly label him like other players with similar attributes. But that's not realistic to expect or fair to DJ. Sure he can jump out of the building, that doesn't mean he has the mental toughness to get to the hole and deliver. The scouting reports on him in college never mentioned his ability to get to the basket. They talked about his "sweet shot" and his jumping ability. That doesn't mean we have someone with a `Nique like mindset about getting to the basket.

That said I see no reason to think that he will be a bust. He just needs to be given more time to mold his game. In my book he is a year behind on his development anyway. His first year he wasn't used enough, period. They should have started focusing his game then, instead of expecting him to do it for them. I do expect him to be a better player this year. Though it may not be the type of game some of us expect from him simply because of the way he is built.

They could get a lot better deal for Lewis than that. That's Dion and junk for a young up and coming player. No way they'd do it. If they do SNT Lewis, it will be for more than that.

nobody knows how well he can run the offense. You are doing nothing but hyping assumptions. Saying that having him makes JT expendable is ignorant. Especially when your only reasoning behind it is a baseless assumption that "he can run the offense". Which in the NBA is an unproven, unfounded, blind statement. To take it a step further he was NOT a great college point guard. he was more of a scorer than a point guard. So how the hell can you say "he can run the offense". He can score, we know that. He only collected 4.5 APG in college. I mean you yourself said that JT's 6 APG were nothing but "simple assists", so how the hell does 4.5 APG AT A COLLEGE LEVEL translate into being able to run an offense at the pro level? Simply enough, it doesn't. You are just spinning things your way to be right.

I mean you have blasted babs and the hawks scouting enough, how did every other team let this guy slip through the cracks then? I'm not nocking DD, I think he'll be a good player for us. But realistically he had a high profile enough college career yet he still slipped through the cracks. Obviously other teams felt he was lacking enough things that they were willing to just pass. Mainly they felt that he IS NOT a real point guard, he's a SG in a PG's body and that combined with being under 6' tall means they weren't interested. Now I know you truely believe that you are more knowledgeable than anyone who actually works in the NBA. But that's a bit of a stretch.

Babcock dismisses talk of acquiring Sprewell

By MICHAEL LEE

Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer

Boston -- The Hawks were supposed to get a jolt Friday with the arrival of center Theo Ratliff at Shaw's Pro Summer League. They were stunned early in the day with a report of trade talks involving Jason Terry.

Neither turned out to be true.

Ratliff was closing on a home in Atlanta Friday, but the time was moved from noon to 3 p.m., making it impossible for him to catch a flight and play in the Hawks' game against Orlando. Ratliff, who is rehabbing an injured hip that limited him to just three games last season, is expected to play Saturday and Sunday.

"If he can get here, he will [play]," Hawks coach Lon Kruger said.

"We would have liked to see him tonight, but it's not a huge deal," Hawks general manager Pete Babcock said. "We've seen him every day in Atlanta, he's in great shape, he's 100 percent. It's unusual for a player of his status to even want to play. This was something he initiated. It's really more for him than for us to evaluate him."

But with Ratliff gone, Babcock assumed the role of defensive specialist, swatting away a report in the New York Daily News that had Hawks rising star Terry in the middle of a three-team including the Knicks' Latrell Sprewell and either Cleveland's Andre Miller or Minnesota's Wally Szczerbiak.

"That's just one that was out of the blue," Babcock said, adamantly. "I'll tell you how valid this stuff is, [Hawks president Stan Kasten] called me this morning and wanted to know why I hadn't told him we were making the move. I told him, 'I don't know anything about it.'

"We would trade anybody on our team, if it made us better and normally, I wouldn't comment on conversations that we've had with other teams," Babcock said, "but I have not had a conversation, to date, about Jason Terry in any way shape or form -- with the exception of one team, prior to the draft, inquiring about Jason for their draft pick. That's the only conversation I've had about Jason Terry in the last two months.

"So all these statements that we've been trying to trade him since we got [Dan] Dickau. There's absolutely no truth to that," he said.

The Knicks have been shopping Sprewell heavily this summer -- his name has been mentioned in trades with Milwaukee and Detroit in the last week -- but Babcock scoffed at any chance of him playing in Atlanta. After Sprewell's suspension for choking former Golden State coach P.J. Carlesimo in December 1997, Babcock said that Sprewell would never wear a Hawks jersey.

"Those statements always come back to bite me, but I still believe that," Babcock said. "It's unfair to compare players, but we went against our standards to a degree with [J.R.] Rider a few years ago. We rolled the dice and we lost big time on it. We would have to think very hard about bending again."

The games didn't flow as well with JT as the PG. He did a good job of collecting simple assists....

-----------

that's nothing but personal opinion. Many many times I saw JT make great timely passes in the flow of the offense only to have Nazr/DJ/Hanno/Reef drop the pass or hesitate and get nothing. You surround him with better players and he'll be a top 5 point guard. As usual you spin things teh way you want to spin them so that you can seem right.

There are lots of other pg's out there that have a LOT more to pass to than JT did and they aren't getting 6 assists. Kenny anderson? Hell, if I had those two guys to pass to I could average 10 assists myself. JT was pulling near 8 assists per game in the last month of the season. I guess 8 simple assists are easy too right? laugh.