davis171

14 minutes ago, KB21 said:

No, because you are now unattractive to that undervalued vet.  When we signed Paul and DeMarre, we were a 40 plus win team.  No vet is going to willingly come to a sub 20 win team.

Wrong. no one wanted DeMarre he shot 28% from 3 the year before he joined ATL. The reason Millsap signed is because Utah had so many big men on contract and wanted to give minutes to Kanter and Derrick Favors.  Those types of players will sign with anyone who will give them a chance to be a full time starter. 

Just now, KB21 said:

Then you do what Danny Ferry did.  You sign undervalued players to good contracts and roll with it.  

11 minutes ago, CBAreject said:

I figured it out over the course of this thread.  KB thinks we could sign a Demarre Carrroll and Paul Millsap any offseason and end up with 2 veteran all-star forwards who were perfect scheme fits.  

This is where we disagree.  Most of us take for granted that it was impossible for us to substantially improve on our lousy, expensive first round playoff team 

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Correction. 

What people are taking for granted is the importance of being good as opposed to be a dumpster fire.  You are taking it for granted that you can simply dip down into the lottery for a year, nab a superstar player, and then be on your way up in a short amount of time.  It doesn't work that way.  It may have worked that way in the '80s and '90s when players coming out of college were a lot better and a lot more ready for the NBA than they are now, but it doesn't work that way any longer.  This is why teams that decide to dip into the lottery stay there for an extended period of time. 

There is not a single player in the 2018 draft that will make the Hawks better in 2018-2019 than they are now.  Not a single one.  

 

Okay owners say no we aren't breaking the cap to be an average team then what.

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I did say legit veteran that can help a team win, not place holders who have minimal impact on the game.

Didn't Deadmon start 30+ games for a spurs team that won 60+ games last year? but I guess that isn't valuable.

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Nah.  I want to be the complete dumpster fire that everyone in the league wants to play because it's an easy win.

so what is the quickest way to win a championship in your opinion? Try and be a 4-6 seed ever year while paying luxury tax with no star to bring in fans and pray everyone gets hurt?

52 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Here's your strategy:  Let's just give up on even trying to win games because of LeBron.  Let's spend the next 5 years at the bottom of the league standings and hope that out of those 5 picks, we can get two good players.  That way, we can pull the wool over the eyes of our fanbase and convince them that the future is bright with these two players.  Along the way, we can't sign any veterans because we want to set up a culture where there is no accountability for the young players on the team.  We want to just give them jobs they haven't earned.  We want to play young and free and lose a lot of games in the process.  We want to establish a losing culture that will be difficult to overcome.

So you want us to continue doing exactly what we have done since the hawks have been here and be the team everyone wants to play in the playoffs.

Just now, Peoriabird said:

We'll have plenty of flexibility to sign veteran players

thank you the kings were able to sign freaking George hill and Zach Randolph who would be a much cheeper option to mentor a guy like collins if you want to go that route.

7 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Not if you're a ticket buying fan you wouldn't.

The feeling of winning a championship is great.  But losing is absolutely horrible.  Losing will not only suck the life out of you, it will possibly make you not love the game anymore.

In essence, you're saying that you'd rather trade the last 10 years of the Sacramento Kings, for the last 10 years of the Atlanta Hawks.  I call complete BS on that.  The Kings played the tank game like they should, and even got a Hall of Fame player in Demarcus Cousins.  And not even a 40 win season to show for it.  And they felt that they had to trade their Hall of Famer, to start completely from scratch.

They're about to embark on their 12th consecutive losing season in which they've missed the playoffs.  9 head coaches in that span, by the way.  When you lose for that long, a championship is the furthest thing from your mind.  They'd kill just to be an 8th seed 4 - 0 sacrifice to the Golden State Warriors at this point, to give the fan base just a glimmer of hope.

 

While the Hawks may have hit the reset button to get that franchise player, they may have actually messed up by NOT re-signing Millsap and keeping Dwight for one more year.  I say that because John Collins actually looks like a legit talent.  A talent that, if developed properly, could be an All-Star.  How great would it have been for his development, for him to be playing along a dominant rebounder and good post player like Dwight, and a versatile defensive stalwart with a mixed bag of offensive skills like Millsap?

Instead, the only people that Collins is learning from, is a coaching staff trying to turn him into a stretch 4, while not developing his interior game ( because they don't him to be "too good", in fear that it might lead to wins ).

This season has stunted the growth of our other lottery pick, Taurean Prince.  Some in the fan base are even starting to turn on him, because he can't function as a legit 3rd scoring option.  And poor Dennis.  The PG who battled John Wall toe to toe in last year's playoffs, has to endure a tank season in which most of his weapons were taken away from him.  He can't properly be developed either, because if he plays too well, it will lead to wins.

 

10 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Not if you're a ticket buying fan you wouldn't.

The feeling of winning a championship is great.  But losing is absolutely horrible.  Losing will not only suck the life out of you, it will possibly make you not love the game anymore.

In essence, you're saying that you'd rather trade the last 10 years of the Sacramento Kings, for the last 10 years of the Atlanta Hawks.  I call complete BS on that.  The Kings played the tank game like they should, and even got a Hall of Fame player in Demarcus Cousins.  And not even a 40 win season to show for it.  And they felt that they had to trade their Hall of Famer, to start completely from scratch.

They're about to embark on their 12th consecutive losing season in which they've missed the playoffs.  9 head coaches in that span, by the way.  When you lose for that long, a championship is the furthest thing from your mind.  They'd kill just to be an 8th seed 4 - 0 sacrifice to the Golden State Warriors at this point, to give the fan base just a glimmer of hope.

 

While the Hawks may have hit the reset button to get that franchise player, they may have actually messed up by NOT re-signing Millsap and keeping Dwight for one more year.  I say that because John Collins actually looks like a legit talent.  A talent that, if developed properly, could be an All-Star.  How great would it have been for his development, for him to be playing along a dominant rebounder and good post player like Dwight, and a versatile defensive stalwart with a mixed bag of offensive skills like Millsap?

Instead, the only people that Collins is learning from, is a coaching staff trying to turn him into a stretch 4, while not developing his interior game ( because they don't him to be "too good", in fear that it might lead to wins ).

This season has stunted the growth of our other lottery pick, Taurean Prince.  Some in the fan base are even starting to turn on him, because he can't function as a legit 3rd scoring option.  And poor Dennis.  The PG who battled John Wall toe to toe in last year's playoffs, has to endure a tank season in which most of his weapons were taken away from him.  He can't properly be developed either, because if he plays too well, it will lead to wins.

 

You are dumb to think resigning Paul to a 3 year deal worth 90+ mil to mentor a player. The fact is the hawks were aging and were going to have to go into the luxury tax to even be a playoff team. Please explain why our ownership should spend an additional 20mil to be a mediocre team 

19 minutes ago, deester11 said:

Now THAT is strategy!

He won't respond he knows that the hawks were aging and getting worse every year. Go sign Lebron that is the only way to get the hawks to a championship contender . Paul George wouldn't have made the hawks a contender even. Rebuild as Lebron ages hopefully the east will open up a bit as the hawks roster hits their stride a few years down the line.

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

If you think this year has been bad, wait till you see the potential roster for 2018-2019.  If Moose opts in, he, Dennis, and Baze will likely be the only players on the roster with more than 2 years of experience.  I highly doubt you see Atlanta add any veterans.  Well, it's unlikely that any veterans will be interested in signing with what will likely end up being a sub 20 win team.

This team will probably have around 7 players, if not more, who have 1 year or less of experience in the NBA.  That's a frightening though and one that will lead to a boat load of losses for that season.  

Might as well start seeing which hyped up 19 year old you will want with a top 3 pick in the 2019 draft.  2020 as well.

#LaMeloATL2020

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

In what fantasy land has the 76ers last 5 years been better than the Hawks last 10?

Obviously the idea isn't following just on court success. They have made moves to set them up for championships in the future regardless of the bumps along the way. That is something the Hawks have never been honest championship contenders. I'd take 19 years of 25 wins for 1 championship over bounced in a round or 2 and I guess thats where we differ.

54 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The Hawks were also without Korver and Carroll.

Okay maybe we win a game MAYBE yippee AND the Cavs were without a healthy Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving. Who are 100x the player each of Korver and Carroll combined

27 minutes ago, KB21 said:

First, you are the one inferring anything about one ECF in 50 years.  Not me.  That ECF was built when Danny Ferry decided to get out from under Joe Johnson's contract and instead of tanking, he signed Paul Millsap and DeMarre Carroll, traded for Kyle Korver, and signed Thabo Sefolosha, signed Pero Antic...etc..  So, Danny Ferry did what you would call a middle build, and he built a championship contender.  The Hawks made the ECF within one year of their down season, which was 38 wins.  

When someone builds a championship level team after going scorched earth within 5 years of their down season, and it is repeatable, then you can talk to me about tanking actually works.  Until then, I will not be convinced.   I'm not willing to spend the next 5 plus years losing in the name of tanking.

100% believe that no one on earth thought the 2016 season was able to be replicated otherwise everyone would do it. You think you know something every GM in the NBA does not know?

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Give them 3 years?  After they have already taken 5 years to get to this point?  That's my entire point.  Tanking doesn't work if it still takes you 8-10 years to get to where you want to be.  

Better than the 10+ you JUST spent being completely mediocre. I would much rather be where they are now than where we were in 2016 because in the end everyone knew that the hawks weren't actually winning anything. I think the 76ers decided no one is beating Lebron in his prime while in the east especially an aging 76ers team so why not stockpile assets for when he is out of his prime.

33 minutes ago, KB21 said:

If it was the easiest, then why don't the teams picking at the top of the draft actually get better?

Um 76ers are set. Their best players are just 23 and 21 and will give them the opportunity to compete for championships as soon as Lebron retires or leaves the east. They also have a top 10 pick this year. Wait until they are 25-26 they will be competing for championships. You are just being naive if you think the path the hawks were going down lead to championships. I also never said that 100% of draft picks hit however they are more likely. This is like saying most players playing are lower than a top 5 pick or saying most players playing were 3 star recruits or less. Yeah maybe true but I bet the percentages are a lot higher. So AKA what @KB21 is saying is you can get more talent drafting at 20 than 3. Yes, you do get more talent typically at the top of the draft. Btw quote is funny considering the only reason the Thunder have had success is because of lottery picks Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook which is exactly what the 76ers did give them 3 years please.

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Oh, the Hawks are definitely FARTHER away from a championship now than they have been over the past 10 years.  That is for sure, and there is no hope of it getting much better over the next 5 years.  

Those are not made up percentages either.  

So, basically, what you are saying is that because of their tanking, the Hawks are going to be able to sign LeBron James in 2-3 years and win a championship.

 

So you want us to stay mediocre forever? There are literally youtube videos explaining how the hawks are the most average franchise ever. The perception of the hawks is a borderline playoff team with a good coach but never enough to win anything. Regardless of if you think tanking works paying Millsap 30+ mill and Dwight 20+ mill would be stupid if it means continuing being an average franchise that makes the playoffs and gets swept by Lebron ever year. We need to begin valuing our cap space and not handing it out to players who will not help us win anything less than championships but the major piece of this is finding the player to build the pieces around and that is easier early in drafts not that it is the only way maybe just the easiest. 

20 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Exactly so he shouldn't be shooting that shot as much as he does especially when the rest of his game is super efficient.  Which make me think that he is in on the tank

Oh come on. I think he maybe leaving something to be desired but I also think part of it is due to him knowing this team wasn't going anywhere. The hawks may even draft his replacement I doubt he is intentionally losing games. In fact he was available for trade at the deadline and nobody wanted him. 

Just now, Peoriabird said:

If you can put the ball in the hoop at the NBA level efficiently then to me, that is what decides games not so called "Talent"

Well Schröder shoots under 30% from 3 is that what you call efficient? 

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Talent isn't something you can measure

So you really think that the Hawks are on par with the Heat. Dragic or Whiteside would walk into Atlanta and be our best player.

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Not sure I agree with the lean years theory especially if we retain Dedmon while Schröder, Prince Collins and Dorsey continue to improve.  We would be close to a .500 team this year if we wanted to be.  But its apparent that Bud is a part of the tank process too.

I'm sorry but name 10 teams with less talent than the hawks. If we are a .500 team it is because bud is that good a coach.

4 hours ago, AHF said:

If we get Sexton or Young I won't be happy at all on day 1.

Yeah I 100% agree I have Ayton and Doncic really high. I like Bagley but a little worried with how bad Duke has been on defense with him in. I really think Bamba has a nice floor as well as JJJ and really want to see Porter play.

8 minutes ago, phoostal said:

They don't have that pick, it went to the Celtics part of the Fultz trade

Nope only if it falls between 2-5. 1 or 6-30 goes to goes to 76ers  https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed but it is okay to be wrong sometimes I mean you are a Stars fan.

On 2/17/2018 at 0:36 PM, DBac said:

They have control of Embiid until 2023, control of Simmons until 2025. . They're in the playoffs right now and neither of those guys are in their primes.

And if Fultz gets his confidence back they have him until 2026

edit: And they'll be able to offer a supermax to all of those guys to entice them to stay.

AND they have the lakers pick potentially this year.

50 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Teams do it because ownership knows how much profit they can make by convincing a stupid fan base that tanking is the only means of getting that "star" player.

 

It maybe not the only way but it sure is the easiest.

I would love to have Deadmon back at around the midlevel exception or less. Issue is I see him going a contender at that price. Some playoff team will want a 3pt shooting 5.