elT

Damn you hate Charlie. For what reason? He's a good kid. Very aware of his weakness, ready to work on them. A good team mate and an excelent member of the comunity. Don't tell me it's his condition that bothers you. Tell you this...he'd be an excelent fit for the Hawks.

We've got ways to go. Ukic is more of an SG then PG. He's a scorer with extended play making abilities. Like Joe Johnson, not at that level obviusly. He might get some time at PG but he'll be SG mainly. He'll have to get stronger and smarter to be efective in the NBA. IMO, he'll be a decent back up at best. I'm hoping Colangelo trades #1 to Dallas for Devin Harris, though I can't see Dallas doing that. Our back court is still week as hell and we still don't have enough experience or toughness down low. As I said, ways to go. One thing that we hope for is that BC solves one of the two things. Either backcourt or frontcourt or to make a decision. We've signed Jorge Garbajosa a very good Spanish PF with extended range. I would try to get another veteran, like PJ Brown, and play CV and CB up front with mentoring and minutes from PJ and Jorge. We'll see...

I disagree. That thing is natural. You either have it or you don't. If you do, all you need is the tools [handling, shooting etc.] and determination. If you don't, you could have all the tools, desire and whatever and you'll turn in to either a back up[at best] and Steve Francis/Starbury type 'PG' that's actualy and SG in PG's body. Now being a big man has lots of advantages and disadvantages. First thing is, most of these young big men come from the kind of competition where they were either the talles or the strongest or both. Realising that part coming in to the NBA and finding the way arround it along with speed of the game is huge hurdle. Now you could say the same for PGs. But due to the nature of positions they are lot less hurt by it then big men. Defensivly it's all about developing the mindset. A guard has help a second line of D that's there to bail him out. Big guy doesn't. He has to learn all those little tricks defending first: his biger, stronger man; second: helping his teammate. It's a complicated philosphy that takes years to learn. That being said, there are guys who are again just born with it. Hakeem e.g. was just amazing from the get go. Now Chris Paul is amazing for the simple fact he's got that something. But let's not forget he's still in his comfort zone. He's still haveing almost the same things he had in college only now it got quicker and that actually suits him better. Those guys are rare, hard to find. They are just natural and that's the best thing. That's why they may have more value to the team then some kind of dominant big man but that doesn't mean that position is harder. In fact, for someone who is born with it, it's easy. With Charlie, and other big men, it's gonna take some more time before they adapt and IMO, it would only be fair to let them have it. That includes your preciouse Hawk, Marvin though he's somewhere between SF and PF. I like his game and talent. To me he seems like better Jamaal Mashburn. Him and Joe could be wracking havoc in a few years. But the truth is, CV has already made some noise and he is just a year older then Marvin. 48 points, for a rookie that was picked 7th and for which some guys dare to say was a bad pick there, is amazing.

First, I'm not saying CV is the best I just say he COULD BE when all is said and done. Second, you obviusly haven't seen CV play much have you? No room to improve? are you seriouse? Let me know when you watch a game or two.

I agree on Felton. I love Felton. Marvin and Granger however....no way. Marvin still has ways to go before anyone is sure of anything. Granger has troubles with his knees. I like him and wish him luck but there is a reasonable amount of 'scary' element there. It's why he dropped to 17. And so far, CV's upside seems to be > Marvin's upside.

Raptor fan here. Found this topic too interesting to pass on. I visit here frequently, I was here in the chat room on the lottery night. Anyways some of you guys need to set it straight with yourself. You don't care what he did in his rookie year? That's a lie. If he sucked you'd be so 'told you so'-ing everyone. CV can very well be the best player out of his draft class when it's all said and done. CP3 found succes early, to his credit, but let's not forget it's a lot harder for big men to learn to play at this level. Still, CV had periods, quarters even the whole games wehere he looked like the best player on the floor. His 48 points game against very strong and physical Bucks team was one of those games. Bosh went out with thumb injury, CV took over and carried the team. He showed lots of signs of greatness in terms of talent and feel for the game. His passing skill is just amazing. Sometime he looks like 6-11 pointguard. Now , it's just matter of him finding ways to keep pushing himself keep seting the new goals. Alongside Bosh, who is slowly becoming a true team leader, he'll have a chance to do just that, follow an example of a guy same age as he is doing whatever's needed. CV's weakness is, like with most young big men, his D. He must find a way to remaine focused. Sometimes he looks good but when you see him blew it afterwards you realize it's just an instinct. He needs to become more cosnistent defensivly. He's got the tools it's just geting the head in. But I don't worry. Charlie is also showing great signs off the court. He's very active in the comunity helping kids overcome their troubles and so on. It was a perfect pick. If draft was redone now guess who goes no. 2? In few years that will change if all goes according to plan. The mockery of Babcock is hilariouse. First of all, Haffa wasn't Babcock's pick. He was hired just two weeks before the draft and the pick was made by the guy who worked for the team in GM search, former Pistons GM, Jack McCloskey. Babcock had no word in it. Vince trade is something very little people will understand. It's easy to speak now that Vince decided to play, to perform, to drive to the basket but back in Toronto he was 1)Injured[achiles] 2)Looked slower, fatter 3)Had games where he'd score just 4 points. All in all, his value was WAY down. The trade that was made was the best there was. Alternatives were just expiring contracts. Afterwards it was leaked that Babcock didn't want to buy out 'Zo. It was done by Richard Peddie, team president that was the real boss in Toronto until the point Brian Colangelo came. The move that was truly Babcock's and was bad was the Alston signing. He did however manage to trade him a year later to the Rockets for Mike James. He also didn't manage to trade 'Yell who was to become an unrestricted FA. Some value could perhaps get squezed out. The 2005 draft was amazing though. CV and Graham in the first round. Roko a steal in the second round. Uros Slokar, a 6-10 PF who dominated the summer league with few 20-10 games was drafted 56th and is just 22 years old. To top it off, Babcock signed Jose Manuel Calderon who was leading the rookies in assists per game and asists per to ratio before he was injured. A true pure PG. And you say, why was he fired if he was that good? We'll have to go a bit further in the past, before he was fired. You see, the GM before him, Glen Grunwald made a mess of a team. He overpayed 3 over the top guys that killed our financial flexibilty[AD, Alvin and JYD]. The Vince started pouting and stopped giving a damn about the team. Drafting Bosh was the only bright spot. Only hope. The ownership decided to fire Grunwald. But who would come? The team ewed past coaches something arround 10M$ a year and couldn't afford top ran executive until those debts are payed off[2 years]. The cap situation was a true mess, it needed at least two years to be cleaned up. Which top executive would wan to go trought all of that? None. But Peddie did talk to some of them back then, including Colangelo. Colangelo told him back then to clean up the mess, get some flexibility and sign a bigger check. So Peddie did that. He got a guy that would jump at the oportunity. His priorities were clearing up the cap and getins some youth arround. All of that without knowing that he is there just to prepaire the terrain for Colangelo to arrive. Colangelo's contract was expiring in two years. Embry was hired to oversee team is prepared the right way for Brian. Embry is a close familiy friend with Colangelos. So Babcock was a puppet. He didn't know it. He was there for a fixed period of time regardless of his performance. But his performance was good. He's left us with cap room, young core, prospects over sees. None of that we had before. So thanks Rob. Brian is here to take it all on another level and hopefully he'll manage doing just that. The draft is wide open, we have tons of options with the top pick. Bottom line is, for this topic, CV was an excelent pick at #7. Those mock drafts are idiotic and always will be so becouse they are based on pure speculation. Nothin more. There's no knowledge there. No inside sourced. Nothing. Just pure speculation. So next time some team pulls a shocker and we think it's stupid think again. It just might be the best thing that happened to that team. Peace