AmishBoy

We're pretty much damned if we do, damned if we don't. What makes us believe we have anymore chance of copying the Detroit Pistons formula than Utah, Indiana, Philly or any other team that doesn't have a superstar? The truth is we probably have the same chance at winning a title whether we make trades, blow the team up and start in the draft, or stick with our core.

Since the 2003 draft here are the superstars.

LeBron James

Dwayne wade

Dwight Howard

Chris Paul

Kevin Durant

Derrick Rose

Deron Williams

and these guys are debatable

Andrew Bynum

Rajon Rondo

Blake griffin

We all know the ones we had a chance at.

Here are the finals teams from that same period and the stars.

2003 San Antonio Spurs and New Jersey Nets. Tim Duncan, Jason Kidd

2004 Los Angeles Lakers and Detroit Pistons. Kobe,

2005 San Antonio Spurs and Detroit Pistons. Tim Duncan

2006 Dallas Mavericks and Miami Heat. Dirk Nowitzki, Dwayne Wade

2007 San Antonio Spurs and Cleveland Cavaliers. Tim Duncan, Lebron James

2008 Los Angeles Lakers and Boston Celtics. Kobe, Pierce, Kevin, Ray

2009 Los Angeles Lakers and Orlando Magic. Kobe, Dwight

2010 Los Angeles Lakers and Boston Celtics. Kobe, Pierce, Kevin, Ray

2011 Dallas Mavericks and Miami Heat. Dirk, Wade

Here are theconference finals teams

2004 Los Angeles Lakers Minnesota Timberwolves 4–2

2005 San Antonio Spurs Phoenix Suns† 4–1

2006 Dallas Mavericks Phoenix Suns 4–2

2007 San Antonio Spurs Utah Jazz 4–1

2008 Los Angeles Lakers San Antonio Spurs 4–1

2009 Los Angeles Lakers Denver Nuggets 4–2

2010 Los Angeles Lakers Phoenix Suns 4–2

2011 Dallas Mavericks Oklahoma City Thunder

2003 New Jersey Nets Detroit Pistons 4-0

2004 Detroit Pistons Indiana Pacers† 4–2

2005 Detroit Pistons Miami Heat 4–3

2006 Miami Heat Detroit Pistons† 4–2

2007 Cleveland Cavaliers Detroit Pistons 4–2

2008 Boston Celtics† Detroit Pistons 4–2

2009 Orlando Magic Cleveland Cavaliers† 4–2

2010 Boston Celtics Orlando Magic 4–2

2011 Miami Heat Chicago Bulls

Outside the Pistons each team featured someone from the current crop of superstars or from the previous "generation" of superstars.

Ironically, the only current superstar not have made either the conference or nba finals is Chris Paul and from the debatables there is only Blake Griffin.

Is the run on superstars over for a few years until the next crop show up? Who knows? But I do know missing on Chris Paul and Deron Williams assured us of not contending for at least a decade.

There's at least one consolation. We didn't go downhll as fast as Milwaukee.

I'm still holding out hope for the 3rd seed.

~lw3

I look at that picture, shake my head, and think "wow, we really did that."

I think Chicago will be significantly better and the Bucks have a legit Center in Bogut and M Redd returning later ---- both team have a good chance of moving into the forth spot. Orlando, Miami, Boston and then there is a dash for forth Bulls, Bucks and Hawks. we will be competing against Bogut, Big Z and D. Howard. this could be tough if the Hawks do not get some size at least of the bench.

I can see your logic with the Bucks but Chicago is seriously overrated every year. Adding Boozer makes them basically Utah except Sloan is a better coach than Tom and Deron is a better point guard than Derrick Rose which makes them not as good as Utah. Meanwhile Boozer is still an undersized four. I doubt either team wins more than 53 games so we would have to regress for them to pass us.

Respect due to Al Horford, but without a true Center the Hawks will likely drop from the top 4 in the East, and probably no better than 6 or 7 of the Western Conference elite. ZaZa's size makes him a Center in statue, but he actually dropped off last year in regards to his contribution. Brad Miller or Shaq? is what is left of the free agent Centers --- which is not much particularly at this stage in Shaqs career. Shaq does have a presence and would probably add a dimension this team needs, and that is size and strength. If he is 70% of the Shaq we are use to, that would be an upgrade from ZaZa, Randolph and Collins. Brad is a better offensive threat and can shoot free throws he also would be and upgrade. The Hawks will not compete with the Lakers, Magic, Rockets or any other team that has size at the Center position. Unless Drew can get something out of ZaZa and Randolph that Woodson couldn't, we will absolutely need to address the Center Position this offseason.

There was nobody who finished behind us who will be better than us this season. Miami and Cleveland will swap. Without a big body who can be effective against Howard we will probably be destroyed again by Orlando.

I'm can usually brush off the people doubting the Hawks or badmouthing but this constant disrespect of our team is starting to piss me off. This is the summer league nba/espn3 tv schedule as posted on espn. The Hawks are the only team with 4 games not even being broadcast. f*** Lebron, Stern, and the rest of them.

Link

Monday, July 12

Lakers vs. Knicks 4 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Kings vs. Pistons 6 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Spurs vs. Wolves 6:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M) ESPN3

Mavericks vs. Bucks 8 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) NBA TV

Suns vs. D-League All-Stars 8:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M) NBA TV

Wizards vs. Clippers 10 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Grizzlies vs. Hawks 10:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M) ESPN3

Tuesday, July 13

Nuggets vs. Bulls 4 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Cavs vs. D-League All-Stars 6 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Rockets vs. Raptors 6:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M)

Bucks vs. Grizzlies 8 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

King vs. Lakers 8:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M) ESPN3

Blazers vs. Hornets 10 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) NBA TV

Warriors vs. Heat 10:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M)

Wednesday, July 14

Nuggets vs. Rockets 4 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Knicks vs. Raptors 6 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) NBA TV

Hawks vs. Spurs 6:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M)

Clippers vs. Bulls 8 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Cavs vs. Suns 8:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M)

Kings vs. Wolves 10 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Pistons vs. Heat 10:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M)

Thursday, July 15

Lakers vs. Spurs 4 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Warriors vs. Suns 6 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Wizards vs. Mavericks 8 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Hawks vs. Bucks 8:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M)

Clippers vs. Blazers 10 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

D-League All-Stars vs. Grizzlies 10:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M)

Friday, July 16 Time

Pistons vs. Knicks 4 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Raptors vs. Kings 6 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Wizards vs. Hornets 8 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Cavs vs. Bulls 8:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M)

Grizzlies vs. Wolves 10 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Bucks vs. Heat 10:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M)

Saturday, July 17

Knicks vs. Wizards 4 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Heat vs. Cavs 6 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Raptors vs. Hornets 6:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M)

Clippers vs. Spurs 8 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Kings vs. Bulls 8:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M) ESPN3

Wolves vs. Blazers 10 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) NBA TV

D-League All-Stars vs. Hawks 10:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M)

Sunday, July 18

Cavs vs. Bucks 4 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) NBA TV

Spurs vs. Grizzlies 4:30 a.m. Las Vegas (T&M) ESPN3

Bulls vs. Blazers 6 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) NBA TV

Hawks vs. Wolves 6:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M)

Mavericks vs. Kings 8 p.m. Las Vegas (Cox) ESPN3, NBA TV

Clippers vs. D-League All-Stars 8:30 p.m. Las Vegas (T&M)

I don't know if he'll be a good coach or not but I'll do anything to get him off the abc/espn broadcast. Him and van gundy are god aweful.

We don't need a total rebuild.

Just a better Coach. Woody has taken us as far as he can go. His stubborness is what's wrong here. He doesn't see how this switching defense is killing us.

It hurt my heart to see how SVG was still coaching (HARD) in the 4th quarter up by 20. His guys were still responding. Our guys don't respond to Woody. He has lost this team. Bring in a new voice. Avery Johnson, Doc Rivers, Jeff Van Gundy, or Sam Mitchell. It's time for somebody to get these guys into mental shape.

We essentially had three all-stars. I don't know if a new coach will get us past Orlando or Cleveland who I think will be here for awhile. Let's be honest. They quit. We drafted a bunch of guys who are good guys so we didn't become the jailblazers but Josh is whiny and some of the other guys are bitches. That's why they don't respond.

Go conventional and drop this hybrid Forward/switching defense/ iso jump shooting offense. Tweak a few here and there and give it a shot. No blow up just yet. :nono:

We have to hide Bibby. If we use teague, it may work. We also can't beat an elite team with Al at the 5. Josh smith has no real guard skills so he can't play the 3. Joe doesn't show up for the playoffs. We are a playoffs team now. Our success depens on that. That's alot of tweaking.

Felt the same way years ago about he Wizards. They just didn't see to have enough to get any better. They finally accepted the inevitable but decided to keep Arenas, who I think is most of the problem because of the way he dominates the ball. I hope we don't make the same mistake. Also it turns out Caron was a regular season superstar. He sucked with Dallas.

I blame my 5th grade teacher. She was a drunk.

3 years, top 3 teams in the east, 3 losses. It's time to rebuild. Even though we can win 40-50 games a year we have no shot at beating the top 3 east teams. Last year's excuse was injuries, this year it's Dwight Howard, even when we took the celtics to 7 it was youth. We simply aren't talented enough. Keep Al, Crawford, see what Teague is made of, get a new coach, and move forward.

Kanye is one of those polarizing figures where people hate him or love him, but I sort of sit on the fence with him. Love his music, think he's an *ss, but love his music enough that I really don't care if he's an *ss. He's like Puffy to me, who most people hate, but I like the dude. I still listen to No Way Out 4 times a year. I have recently split the artist from the persona. After Steve McNair I realized came to the conclusion that no person is put on this earth to live up to your expectations, so if you don't like him personally, get the f*** over it, just enjoy him from an entertainment standpoint. If you're really that concerned, pray for him.

I disagree. I'm a fan of OutKast, Andre 3000 in particular. He's the best rapper to ever do it.

Love Kast and Dre. I really wanted him to go in on Lil Wayne when he said Andre, tell me where is Erykah Badu at. To be honest Jay-z probably isn't my favorite rapper right now, Lupe Fiasco is, but still, looking at his career I still say he's the best rapper of all time.

Jay Z is the best rapper ever.

Not the start to this tough stretch I hoped we would get off to, but I hope some things can be learned. We are still far from out of it. Two of the teams ahead of us are 3 games up but we play them 5 times this month. We are far from out of the hunt for a top 4 spot. Another thing it that Woody seemed to learn in the second game of the Cleveland miniseries when he put Jason Collins on Shaq. I hope he learned from the Nate experience. People like Woody who are really stubborn listen to a select few people, so I hope his wife was watching.

Another thing, in Feb. and March we have a favorable schedule so no matter how bad we do, we still have a chance to catch up in the standings.

I still can not believe we went the entire game including OT without doubling Nate and getting the ball out of his hands. I mean NOT ONCE. Where the hell is the coaching here? Why don't you change your defense and get a double on Nate and make ANYONE ELSE beat you??? :help wanted3:

It didn't matter. When we doubled him and got the ball out of his hand he simply ran to half court and got it again. Nobody on the floor was quick enough to chase him around for 24 seconds so when he gave it up, he just had to move around to get it back, run off a screen for the predictible switch and run past Josh or Al.

I don't so how Woody doesn't see this coming. It happens everytime we play Nate Robinson or other tiny fast guards like TJ Ford. I didn't see the part of the game where Teague played but I sure did see the end of 3rd through overtime where he didn't play and Nate simply had his way with this team.

It's a good thing we get to play them tomorrow. If we really have a bad taste in our mouths it should show. Being on the road will not matter tomorrow because the crowd tonight only got into the game in spurts.

Bibby got the offense flowing once he was put back in but also and he should have been put in earlier. I hope Mike Woodson makes some adjustments tomorrow and realizes that he needs to let Teague get some run against this team. He also needs to finish this game with starters as Marvin is the only player on the Hawks who can hope to defend Lebron.

Bret LaGree (Hoopinion/TrueHoop Network): Taking Jeff Teague, who plays about 10 minutes a night, out of the game after he picks up his second foul in the first half is least consequential and most amusing manifestation of a coaching tic you'll see tonight.

I actually liked what Woody did when he pulled Teague. What happened what that he threw a pass that was tipped up in the air. The pass come right down over a memphis player and into his hands. Teague challenged him in what looked like a no-win situation and confounded the turnover with a silly foul. That's what got him pulled

I wonder if these guys know Bibby has a sprained ankle or did they just ASSume that Woody was cutting Bibby's minutes because Teague is just that good. :snowballfight:

They're probably not noticing the number of blowouts which has led to Teague getting the minutes or Bibs numbers falling because other guys are improving. This is probably only meaningful if you have bibs in your fantasy league.

Schedule: ( back 2 backs not spaced )

vs CLE

@ CLE

vs NY

@ MIA

vs NJ

vs BOS

@ ORL

@ BOS

vs WAS

vs PHO

vs OKC

vs SAC

vs CHA

@ HOU

@ SA

vs BOS

@ ORL

LOL . . isn't that a coincidence?

The BOS-ORL-BOS and SA-BOS-ORL are 3 games in 4 day sets. WOW! The hawks came come out of Jan with supreme confidence is they play well.

Yeah Woody said the same thing. We need another 6 or 7 game win streak. I just hate that we got lambasted by Orlando at home. It just plays in my mind that we let that one go.

What has been our most impressive win this season? I put it between the Mavs and that win over Portland on the road.

I'd say either road win over Mavs or the one in Boston. Yeah we let the one in Orlando go. We just couldn't hit a shot. It was crazy.

That loss hurt, but the loss to the Knicks and Pistons hurt more because those are teams we should have beaten. If you look at the top teams they all have streaks of 5 plus games going right now and that happens alot, but teams don't often put together double digit win streaks. These team are bound to drop one before they start their streak again. The hawks can gain a game soon just by putting together a win streak and not losing to any bozo teams. Also look at the last ten games for each team. The top teams records are usually 9-1,8-2,7-3. When they hit 6-4 in their last ten like the Hawks are now, they usually go into must win emergency mode and reel off 7 or 8 in a row. If the hawks have that in them they are legit, if they lose to a bozo team before they play on the road in Denver, maybe not.