mudderfudder77

"WGN radio is reporting that Scott Skiles will be named the new head coach in the next few days. Skiles was head coach of the Phoenix Suns from 1999-2001. He posted a record of 116-79, including a 5-8 playoff record. The Suns fired Skiles after 51 games in 2001." chicagotribune.com

Making the playoffs in hockey is nothing to get too excited about. Although the Thrashers have a much brighter future than my beloved Blackhawks. No direction, no future, no talent, only their loyal fans. Dam,n you Bill Wirtz!!!

I'm sorry, I thought I was posting a story relevant to the Atlanta Hawks and their fans. I tell you what, next time I'm gonna post a story, I'll run it by you first. You let me know whether it's appropriate for this board or not. I guess I didn't realize you were the Admin. Or maybe you just don't agree with what the article says.

Hopeless Hawks now NBA's biggest lost cause -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By Peter May Special to ESPN.com On the night of May 22, there was an understated sense of excitement in the offices of the Atlanta Hawks. They were one of 13 teams in the lottery and they were hoping for the best, even if the odds were almost overwhelming. Still, there was a chance that the right combination could pop up, giving the Hawks the first pick. Hawks boss Stan Kasten had extra operators ready to handle what he anticipated would be a flood of phone calls. The promotions people were ready. The marketing and advertising people were ready. Then came the lottery and, once again, Atlanta's basketball fortunes settled into that now familiar state, somewhere between ennui and apathy. Kasten, who knows the Atlanta sports scene as well as anyone, believes that the Hawks would have been deluged with calls had they ended up with LeBron James. He points to the excitement that Michael Vick generated when the Falcons acquired him. He says the city will support a winner, or at least a team bent on winning and seemingly headed in the right direction. Believe it or not, Jason Terry wants to stay and play in Atlanta. The Hawks, as of now, provide none of that. Zero. You could make a pretty convincing case that Atlanta is now, officially, the Team Without Hope in the NBA. There is no other team, not even the still-in-the-womb Bobcats, which offers less hope for the few fans who still care. The Nuggets are awful, but they have Carmelo Anthony and a lot of money. The Clippers have finally arrived into the 21st Century. The Warriors at least have some tradeable assets. As we sit at the end of July 2003, there quite possibly is no worse situation in the NBA than the one in Atlanta. And we are led to believe that there is actually someone out there who wants to buy this thing? You can make a case that Atlanta and Cleveland were 1-2 or 2-1 in the "Who cares?" department on May 21. They played among the fewest fans in the NBA last season; dish people surfing NBA TV got accustomed to seeing the empty black seats in Philips Arena and the empty blue seats in Gund Arena. And now? The Hawks are promoting James' first visit to Atlanta. How twisted and ironic is that? The Hawks thought they had turned the proverbial corner last summer, acquiring Glenn Robinson from Milwaukee. Soon-to-be-ex-head coach Lon Kruger promised the playoffs -- or rebates to season-ticket holders. The season-ticket holders won that one. The Big Dog proved true to his nickname, despite his usual, flossy numbers. The Hawks had a better winning percentage when he was out of the lineup (9-4 vs. 26-43) and shipped him to Philadelphia in the recent, four-team megatrade. And who did they get back? Terrell Brandon, who will never play again and whose big contract comes off the books a few months into the season, and Randy Holcomb. The Hawks gave up their leading scorer, third-leading rebounder and second-leading assist guy and got an expiring contract in return? Second-leading scorer Shareef Abdur-Rahim wondered to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, "We give up 20 points a game for a guy who's going to retire? Something else is coming behind." Yes, and that someone, we are told, is David McDavid, who must really, really, really have a lot of money and who must really, really, really want to be an NBA owner. This is the same guy who has a business called the "David McDavid Collision Center" which has a prominent place on the road into Dallas from DFW Airport. Is that where the Hawks deals are being made? (Then again, predecessor Ted Turner once gave up Jane Fonda and kept John Rocker, so maybe this will be an upgrade.) McDavid still hasn't officially taken over yet, so the Hawks are in limbo. But payroll-slicing deals like the Robinson trade always look good to the incoming boss. Meanwhile, the Hawks are essentially rudderless in the front office, although mainstay Kasten is still around and soon will be able to devote his attention to the Braves. Billy Knight is on board now as the general manager, but he has the dreaded "I" word permanently attached to his title: interim. There is no head coach, unless you want to count Terry Stotts, the guy who mopped up last season. He, too, has been an interim fellow. The Hawks not only gave away Robinson. In acquiring him from Milwaukee, they also gave up their first-round pick from the 2003 NBA draft (although it was protected at the top.) That meant that instead of getting the eighth pick, Atlanta had to give it to the Bucks, who swooped in and got T.J. Ford, a point guard who would have fit quite well into the Hawks' point guard-challenged lineup. The Hawks have yet to re-sign Jason Terry, whose agent is trying to shake the Hawks into doing something by offering up non-existent offer sheets from other teams (Utah.) Terry has nowhere to go and has said he actually wants to stay in Atlanta, where he has played reasonably well. After the Robinson trade, he told the Journal-Constitution, "They said they wanted to free up space to sign free agents. I know one free agent that would like to get signed. We'll see what happens." He has been given a qualifying offer for next season. The Hawks are saying they will match any offer to Terry, who is a restricted free agent. They probably will follow through on that; they pretty much have to unless they want to consider joining the ACC next season. The Hawks are saying they will match any offer to Terry, who is a restricted free agent. They probably will follow through on that; they pretty much have to unless they want to consider joining the ACC next season. But they allowed Dion Glover, the No. 4 scorer from last year, to become an unrestricted free agent. Ira Newble, who started 45 games last year, went to Cleveland. As of now, there are nine players on the Atlanta roster. Two of them are draft picks. One of them will never play again (Brandon) and two others (Nazr Mohammed and Chris Crawford) missed a bulk of last year with injuries. Among those left standing are Abdur-Rahim, who has played more games than any active NBA player (533) without so much as getting a sniff at the postseason. And unless he gets traded, this time next year he could be 82 games closer to Tom Van Arsdale, who played 929 games and never cashed a playoff check. Theo Ratliff, Alan Henderson, and, we have to believe, Terry should also be back. That's not much. It'll be even less if Dallas can pry Ratliff away. The Hawks are clearly looking ahead -- two years from now, they might actually have some cap room. But you've still got to play the 2003-04 and 2004-05 seasons. Those picky Atlanta fans at least have the Braves and, soon, the Falcons will be up and running again. Even the NHL Thrashers managed to re-sign Slava Kozlov. The Thrashers may have to pass for winter sports entertainment at Philips Arena this coming season. The only other options are the NBA teams which, by rules, must pass through. Peter May, who covers the NBA for the Boston Globe, is a regular contributor to ESPN.com.

Atlanta plays the Bulls in Chicago on Oct. 31. May the best team show itself.

Now thats funny!

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. -Friedrich Nietzsche-

I don't believe that in any of my posts I actually resorted to name calling. And I hardly think the banter thats been going back and forth here has been by any means venomous. A little good natured ribbing between fans of two down-trodden franchises can hardly be bad. But hey if you were offended, I'm sorry for you.

Listen, most of what has been said is pretty subjective. I said before that intelligent people can agree to disagree. But only an idiot would say Hinrich is a bust after only 6 games in the Rocky Mountain Revue. And Fizer has proven to be a bust as a starter, but is more than able coming off the bench. And as far as Hinrich goes, the Bulls aren't counting on him to claim a starting spot, they only want him to be the guy off the bench who can run the team when Crawford or Rose needs a breather. If he plays the whole season like he did in the revue, other than the one fantastic game he played, than you will have proved prophetic.

Point 1. The team tanking it. Obviously the team was looking ahead to this coming season when it traded away 20ppg, even if he was a cancer it's still 20ppg, for cap space. If Atlanta wanted to win this year they would of traded Robinson for an actual body. Even if they are better without him wouldn't it of made sense to trade for a sg, or another position of need, rather than something inantimate. Oh and the point of all the east needs is a good coach to get to the Finals is a joke. Coaching in the NBA is the most overated of all sports. Talent wins in the NBA, unlike Football or Hockey where good coaching can win games. Point 2. Hawks five wins better. Basically I think you just rehashed your argument from above, team being better without Robinson and such. Then you mentioned some inane stat you heard on a broadcast. If SAR gets so many shots a game the Hawks would win 80% of their games. I'd like you to consider that for a moment. By that reasoning the Hawks should win 60 games next year, all they have to do is let SAR chuck it up their to get his shots and they'd win, seeing as the all-star Robinson isn't there to hog the shots. Do you see how insane that reasoning is? The five wins seperating the Hawks and Bulls is almost nothing. Consider what the Hawks and Bulls did in the offseason to improve. Hawks traded away a very talented cancer for nothing. Bulls picked up a decent veteran ballhandler who still plays great defense. Point 3. Comparing Mohammed to Marshall and Fizer First off, you were the one who questioned whether Fizer had ever done anything other than being trade bait, and then said what a great reserve Mohammed is. All I pointed out was that Fizer has had a better season to date than Mohammed. If Mohammed was as good as you believe he is, he'd be getting more than 12 mins a game. Stats show that even if performance is based on 48mins a game Marshall and Fizer stats are superior to Mohammed. As for Orlando denying a Mike Miller for Fizer trade, I'm not sure what that proves other than a trade didn't happen. I never said Fizer was an all star everyone wanted, only that he's better than any of the Hawks reserves. Point 4. The question of well rounded (your words) First you try to compare your starters past accolades to players who are now Bulls reserves. Yes SAR was an all-star in Vancouver, but hows he fared in Atlanta. He's never taken a team to a winning record. Terry is an undersized guard no matter where he plays, and defense is always going to be a liability. And Ratliff is one bang away from missing the season again. If you look at my comments you'll notice that I refered to E-Rob as vastly overpaid, he is a scrub for the money he's making, and yet he still has better stats than the Hawks reserves. As for Henderson rebounding from the bench, if he played better when he was out there he would get the minutes, same with Mohammed. The point is that the starters might be a wash, but the Hawks have no bench. You let your most talented bench player (Newble) walk. You can fill it with all the Kendall Gills you want and you still wont have the talent and the experience the Bulls have on the bench. Thats where the difference lies, and where the Bulls prove themselves to be a better team. Thats not even counting the fact that you havn't resigned Terry (I know he's restricted).

It's absolutely incredulous that you could belive the Hawks are a better team than the Bulls this year. In case you didn't notice, your team is tanking it this year to save payroll and start anew in a season or two, like the Bulls three years ago. The Hawks were only five wins better last year than the Bulls and you just traded away your leading scorer for cap space! And comparing Mohammed to Marshall is a joke, check their stats. Even Fizers stats are better than Mohammeds and you said he was nothing. Well rounded? You've got a 6'2" pg who likes to shoot more than pass, don't even have a SG, you're SF is a rookie, you're PF is an excellent talent who's never made his teams better, and your C just finally played a full season for the first time in six years. None of your reserves averaged more than 5pts a game last season. Fizer avg 11pts 6reb, Marshall avg 14pts 9reb, not to mention E. Robinson who despite being vastly overpaid does provide defense and scoring off the bench. Listen, the Bulls aren't great by any means, but they most certainly better than any team the Hawks could field right now. Face it, all the Hawks have right now is Rahim and Terry if they can sign him. I've met plenty of delusional Bulls fans over the last three years, but I don't know that any of them were operating on as grand a scale as you are. But intelligent minds can agree to disagree. Ultimately I guess we'll find out for sure what will happen the first time these teams play.

First off I never said Chandler was Garnett, but do I think he's better than Nazr Mohammed, Yes. The easiest way to conpare is look at the starting lineup and at the 6th 7th and 8th guys off the bench. Bulls....................................Hawks PG J. Crawford.....................PG D. Dickau SG J. Rose..........................SG J. Terry SF S. Pippen........................SF S. Abdur Rahim PF T. Chandler.....................PF N. Mohammed C E. Curry.........................C T. Ratliff 6th D. Marshall....................6th B. Diaw 7th K Hinrich.......................7th A. Henderson??? 8th M. Fizer........................8th ??????????????? I could maybe, just maybe, concede that the starters are equal. But when you start looking at the benches, the Bulls are far and away the better team. But even conceding the starting lineups is hard, Rahim and Rose are a wash. Terry is better than Crawford at this point, although I think they will be playing different positions. Dickau vs. Pippen, even an old Pippen, or Crawford is a joke, Bulls win that one. As for Curry vs. Ratliff, that ones pretty close, but I say the edge goes to Curry. Ratliff is easily the better defender, but Curry is bigger, stronger, faster, and much more skilled offensively. I'd be shocked if Curry didn't make the all-star team this year. I acknowledge that's not saying much in a depleted eastern conference. And like I said earlier Marshall, Fizer, Baxter, and Hinrich are better than anything the Hawks can get off the bench. Post is a little long, but i thought I should explain my reasoning.

Yes, I think the Bulls are better than the Hawks. Curry, Chandler, Rose, Pippen, Crawford. They might not be superstars, but they're better than anything the Hawks have right now.

Essentially the Hawks traded G-Rob for salary cap relief. Brandon will retire and in Feb his 11mil contract will come off the books

Isn't eligible for a jury. Let's see, so because she had sex with a basketball player in the past she couldn't have possibly been raped. That is the most idiotic argument I've heard. And then Kobe's press conference, first he denies anything ever happened, then he has a press conference with his wife holding his hand reading a rehearsed statement that everything that happened was consenual. As for her credibility, what about the fact she immediately came out of the room hysterical and reported it to the police. She didn't wait a few days and consult with a lawyer. To the people who say Kobe wouldn't do this, it's totally out of his character, go talk to the people who thought they knew Kirby Puckett. I can't tell you how discouraging it is to here all of these chat boards talking about these stories that hurt her credibility. Maybe if Kobe's lucky, the jury will ask for his autograph after they aquit him. Just like they did for Lugo, who beat his wife, down in Houston.

I would love to read them but I'm just a poor little white boy.