kurupt

vor 2 Stunden, JayBirdHawk sagte:

That's just not Dennis though.  Kyle missed a pass to Dwight when he had Boogie sealed nearly under the basket.  Kyle faked the throw, reset then actually threw it, by then it was too late...deflection by Boogie.

It's all in the timing and players learning what's available when.  It's a process.

Exactly this.

On the play were Dennis "missed" Howard for the 3 second call (which was kinda quick imo) was a bit like that. Dennis saw Dwight, thought about the pass and decided against it, because (at least from his perspective)  Dwight did not have his opponent completely sealed. "Old Dennis" would have made that pass and hoped Dwight would get it - potentially commiting a TO. This time he looked for another pass (which wasn't there) and then returned to Dwight, who now had selaed his defender completely. It was just a tad late.

I am much more comfortable with the "safe" option here, especially since this will work better the more they play together. Forcing plays, that (you think) aren't there,  just leads to turnovers.

As for the P&R-plays and "missing" alley-hoops: as long as Dwight always just slips screens and does it as early as he does right now , there won't be a lot of succesful P&Rs with him. Dennis opponent is hardly ever inhibited at all by Dwights "screen" and Howards man does not even have the chance(!) to come out far enough to be beat by Dennis' drive. I thiunk this wil lwork better with time, too.

Also, on this team, not one player takes shit from the opponent. They are all poised (but not overly aggresive/emotional).

Horford and Teague would have been punked by the Kings a bit in a game like this, I think. These Hawks can play just as physical and take everything in stride.

First off all, all the changes the Hawks made (acquiring D8, losing Horford, promoting Dennis and trading Teague away) will ultimately be judged by looking at the win-loss column at the end of the season. So far it is looking good. Especially since the Hawks still have a lot of things to improve on. If you beat opponents comfortably without being anywhere near 100% of your potential, that's a damn good sign for things to come.

Dennis' defense so far has been very good. The opposing starting PGs have shot 13-33 from the field and averaged 3.3 TOs per game. I would say he won every PG matchup so far, regardless  whether he played as well as he could or not. And you can really see that it helps to have a true shot blocker behind aggressive/good wing defenders.

I think so far he is doing as well as (arguably even better) you could have expected, to be honest. He has better stats in every single category over the first 3 games than Teague had last season - advanced and traditional stats (except PER (17.9 to 17.3) . And he still has a lot of room to improve, for sure.

I mean, what do people expect from him in the first 3 games of his first starting-PG season with a revamped team? Per game:  14 points (45% from the field, 40% from 3, 80% FTs), 6 assists, only 2.3 TOs and a PER of 17.32. And they comfortably won all games.

Also, a lot of his missed drives lead to offensive rebounds for Howard/Millsap and quite a few of his potential assists don't count because Howard always gets hacked near the basket. But these plays still lead to points for the Hawks, even if the assist doesn't show up in the boxscore.

vor 5 Stunden, LamarHampton sagte:

Miffed because he didn't get offered the full max right out of the gate? Just who the F does this guy think he is?? Seriously. This team and this town stood by this guy through not one but two fairly recent season-ending titty tears, so much so that they were going to pay him roughly $25M more than anyone else, commit to him for five years, got him a legit center to play beside, attempted to trade away the best player on the team to keep him, overlooked his declining sawft play these part couple years and that he is on the wrong side of 30, and at the end of it all most likely would have retired his jersey in the rafters. And he decides to go to a lesser team, that is our arch rival, for less money, ignores the commitments we made to make the most ideal situation for him,  and didn't thank Atlanta fans but instead just  talks about the pride of his new team. Yo, that's a d!ck move, Al. Thought a big three here would be cool but honestly not that sad to see you go, especially at that price with your slacking production, and now this mess. Thanks For the memories and all, but if you tear a tit for a third time, Don't expect me not to smile a little.

I absolutely, 100% agree.

He

- left  money on the table with 5th year

- goes to a worse situation in terms of how good his team was/is

- goes to a situation that is worse for him personally, because he has to play center there and had Howard to play alongside here.

That is no coincidence, he was a goner long ago, for whatever reasons. That also explains his (overall) terrible playoff performances (13 points and 6.5 rebounds per game).

I hope this rallyes the team around a motivated Howard. If they can sign a good player with the cap space they have remaining or make a smart trade, the Hawks will be better than last season.

vor einer Stunde, ggp sagte:

The Hawks have a logjam at PF.  They need to play this smart.  They need to see what they can get from a sign-and-trade for Al.  They will compare that value to the what Milsap can bring in return.  

Which ever deal makes the most sense will happen.  Expect either Milsap or Horford to play for another team next season.  

Yes, I agree. They got a quality player in Howard for their cap space which is a huge win, because look at Dallas' situation.

Howard also fixes a lot of the problems for Atlanta, even if he is not as dominant as he used to be: elite rebounding, still good rim protection and a finisher inside, who can play with his back to the basket and create open shots for outside players. Even if he is only "decent", that is still a lot better than having Horford at C, just from a team perspective.

The Hawks are set at PF with Millsap but can look to further improve the team by either trying to keep AL (trading away Splitter/Scott/THJr) with Millsap or trading either one of them to improve elsewhere.

It is even kind of a luxurious positon to be in right now.

vor 3 Stunden, LastDon sagte:

This stats are exactly my point..Jeff was basically putting up 17 and 7 in 28 mpg..if its going to take Schröder 33 mpg to put up that production then he is a downgrade from Teague..

Except that Teague averaged 15.7 points and 5.9 assists in 28.5 minutes per game. 

Dem nimbers are hard...

53 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Poor JayBird. 

He sucked and so did Dennis.   You guys act like Dennis coming in and having 2 good games against the Cavs erased most of the season where we were happy that there was a bench for him to go to.  People talk about Dennis and says he needs to develop.   They talk about Teague as the steady hand.   That is why I said that they were a great combination.    Let's wait to see who Dennis' backup will be and see how long he will be the backup. 

Again.  We have no real knowledge of why we moved Teague but like I said before.. this we do know.. there is a lot of pressure on Prince and a lot of pressure on Dennis to produce. 

 

Holy crap, you're such a WONDERFUL PERSON THAT I JUST HAPPEN TO DISAGREE WITH.

Also, while contesting lots of shots can (and probably is) a good measure for defensive activity etc., you could also say that the fact that people do take a lot of contested shots against Millsap and Horford is actually a sign that their rim protection is not respected.  On the other hand, players might not even consider taking a contested shot vs. Jordan, Whiteside etc., because they are that good at protecting the rim.

This does not diminish Millspas and Horfords efforts. But it does not necessarily mean tha the Hawks are good at protecting the rim.

Okay, what are the odds that

a) the Hawks deliberately let a (severely) hurt player play basically the same minutes throughout the season and

b) Teague plays the way he plays with the injury he claims he had (he did jump/stop etc., there was always a debate if there was something minor or not) and

c) Teague says at the end of the season that there is no real injury, just normal "wear and tear" and

d) Teague says he was/is severrly injured after (serious?) trade rumors/offers appear?

Conspicuous timing, I would say. And unprofessional in any case.

Schröder played 36 seconds longer per game than the season before. Teague 2 minutes less.

Much ado about nothing, I think.

Zitat

I agree.  That's true most of the time.   However,  let's take Detroit for instance.  When the later version of Detroit won the title.. Who was there HoF quality player?

I'll wait.

The Pistons are as close to the model the Hawks may want to follow as it gets. I see only one problem:

They did have players that were special and their defense was all-time great. There were no superstars overall. But Ben Wallace was the best defender / rebounder in a league that had guys like young Dwight Howard and Shaq in it (amongst others). Rasheed Wallace was as talented as a player could be and also an elite defender.

Both Horford and Millsap are already "poor mans versions" of Rasheed Wallace and the Hawks have nothing special about them right now (it was Korvers shooting a season ago).

The Hawks are a ~54 win team. In a good year, they can  win 60, in a bad one they win only 48.

Trade Millsap for starting SF or SG --> problem solved.

I really like this trade idea:

You get a 22-year old who can give you probably around 14/12 with  ~4 steals/block per game (right now)

Horford can play PF --> that is a big plus overall, I think

You can trade Millsap for a need on the wings --> big plus

Korver or Bazemore return to the bench --> bench gets significantly stronger

And the only risk is Schröder not being good enough. If you don't want to take that risk, what other options are there to adresss the needs of this team (rim protection ,rebounding, starting SG or SF)?

If the Hawks could get Noel for Teague (+ pick/non-Rotation player maybe), he would / could be the starting Center. A defensive anchor, a good rebounder. And I think he would do okay offensively as a P&R big man rolling to the basket, who can finish alley-hoops (which the Hawks don't really have atm), offensive rebounding etc.

This could move Horford to PF and you could trade Millspa for a pretty good wing. Or you could let Horford walk and sign a decent wing for the cap space. Doesn't sound to bad, does it?

Ofc you bank on Schröder being able to grow into Teagues role/production. But you would fix something on this team (length / rim protection / rebounding) for a long time and potentially (if Schröder succeeds) lose nothing big.

If this is on the table somehow, what better trade would realistically be there to fix the Hawks wing/center problem?

If Korver can shoot at 45+% again for the season, I think he  can keep starting (but he should only play ~30 mpg at most). The attention he draws when he is on his game is worth it.

The problem this season was that he shot only 38% before the All-Star break and 42% after that.  That is still very good, of course, but it doesn't have the same effect as a guy shooting nearly 50% from 3. ANd if he does not draw extra attention, then the areas where he is lacking, shine more. You saw in the playoffs how much these 6-7% "more" do for him and the team (+/-).

vor 6 Minuten, Diesel sagte:

Funny.  You didn't answer back with stats.   I thought that was your thing??

 

You ignore them anyway and you could look them up yourself. Or you actually cannot, because your too stupid....then  I am actually sorry for you.

vor 26 Minuten, Diesel sagte:

Please.  At what Point was Shroe ever better than Mack?

Was it last years Playoffs?.... NO

Was it the year before Last playoffs?  No.

It was because he has more potential and really because we were paying him more that Bud played Dennis more.  But Dennis never TOOK the position from Mack.  He was handed the position over Mack.   That's why Mack went to Utah and balled out.  

 

q.e.d.

You are a retard, sorry. There is no area where Mack was ever better, even being an older, 4-year college veteran. Not even shooting, incredibly enough.

The fact hat you don't even know how much they earned in salaries these years is just funny. Get out of here!

I am done with you, you disgraced yourself enough.

Oh my god, I totally did not see that we are not in the NHL and don't switch out blocks at a time. Thank you, mate! How could I not see that Schröder plays ans many minutes as Teague? The moron I am thought that 20 =/= 28! No wonder I was that bad at maths in school! And of course, Teague played as many minutes with the bench players as Schröder! How could I miss that? IT IS ALL THE SAME, YOU ARE RIGHT!

And now, if only there was a way to prove that Schröder prefers to chuck the ball at an insane rate, because he misses so many obvious passes. Oh wait, there is and he shoots at basically the same clip as Teague does. AS I HAVE ALREADY SHOWN YOU IN ANOTHER POST.

Come back to me when you can back up any of your stupid claims with something more than you made-up bullshit.

But the nagain, you said Mack was better than Schröder, so...maybe it is just hopeless.

Zitat

Dennis may be young, but he's been playing with grown men since 16.  He came here with a "chip" on his shoulder.  His brashness is part of the reason many people like him so much.  His brashness is the reason why he's so aggressive.  However, by the same token, his brashness is why HE won't conform to a system that tells him that he's not supposed to be brash all the time. He has good BBIQ for PNR ball.  However, he's not going to change everything that he grew up with and do what is against his nature. 

Stop posting bullshit about things you don't know shit about. I seriously hope Schröder gives your girl back to you or whatever he may have done to you.

I watched Schröder since he started to play organized Basketball and I know the coach that brought him up.  Dennis in Europe was as much a floor general as anyone at that age, leading his leagues in assists every single year, and earlier had to be begged to take over games with scoring (and by the way, he played with 20 years and under players 90% of the time), even though it was incredibly easy for him to do so. He wants to dominate, but he does not care whether it is scoring, running the team or destroying his opponent with his defense - he actually prefers (or maybe preferred) the latter two.

Since he is one of the only scoring threats off the bench, especially this season with Bazemore getting a starting spot and not being replaced adequately, his role is of course different from Teagues. He played with THJr, Sefolosha, Mike Scott and Muscala. Mike Scott is the only not awful player offensively and he even he is off and on. Do you really think you can play the same way with tehse gus as you can with Korver, Bazemore, Millsap and Horford? Don't be stupid.

And if you think that his way of playing  is not intended and actually demanend of him by the coaching staff, you may actually be the fool your post make you seem to be. You really think a player that would ignore what he is supposed to do would get his minutes and would finish more and more games as the season went on, including elimination games in the playoffs, if the coaching staff wasn't happy and confident with him overall? Are you kidding me?

The question the Hawks have to answer this offseason is this:

Do you rather have 28-33 year old Jeff Teague for 12+ millions a year (probably 4-5 year contract) or 23 year old Schröder for ~8 millions a year (probably on a shorter contract, if I were Schröder). Schröder is leaps and bounds better on defense already, and even if a lot of the other skills may (or may not) be still slightly better than Schröders,  do you want to bet that Schröder does not improve to Teagues level within the next couple of years?

The money saved alone would make me pick Schröder, plus you at least have the chance of getting a better player, because Teague is what he is at this point: a good starting PG (neither one of them will ever be  one of the 2 best players on a championship team). Also you gain more time. If you keep Teague, you will get a few more years in his prime and then end up with an old PG that relies on his quickness with (currently) no backup plan. If you keep Schröder you will have at least 7 more years of this level of production.

vor 9 Stunden, thescout5 sagte:

I think your possibly on to something Lurker both Dennis and Teague might not be the right answer. You can rack up stats in Bud's system but that doesn't make you an elite point guard who makes the right decision at the right time. The Hawks need to have a point guard who can do this. Dennis seems to have tunnel vision and not include other players when playing. He goes straight for the hoop trying to score. Sure you want to be aggressive but don't forget your main job is to set up other players. Teague seems to rack up nice stats but again when it comes to making the right play during clutch time he as failed more times than not. I'm for whoever brings the most back in a deal. One needs to play full time the other traded because both should  be starters.

1. Dennis ha sone of the highest AST% in the whole league.

2. Bud wants him to score because there is no scoring on the bench except Mike Scott (when he has it going), since Bazemore had to start this season

I am all for discussing things, but please back it up with something.

Why would the Spurs do Mills for a 2nd rounder?

Hawks shooting under 35% on 3's --> will be hard to win a game.

And I said it 6 minutes in: the starters  are digging a hole again...and they did.  36 to 18 bench scoring (40 seconds remaining), mainly by Schröder was not enough.

For all the Schröder hating of late, if your All-Stars play like shit (all 4 of them), they won't win a game.

Both don't play well, but in todays NBA, if your Bigs play as soft as Al Horford on Pick&Rolls and cannot hit an open jumper, it just becomes so much harder for the point guards.

Horford rolls to the basketbet agressively in like every 10th game. The other 9 he just shoots mid range jumpers and if they don't fall, goodbye P&R. And without P&R, your offense is shit in todays NBA.

It is still a team game and the whole team has been struggling for a while now.