Seano

He definitely brings some attitude. Perk is an interesting thought anyway, as he may be an amnesty candidate.

The Hawks' only rival traditionally has been the Celtics. We haven't been successful enough to really have a rival yet, although it's possible for teams that enter the league at the same time (Falcons-Aints). I agree that we should focus on becoming rivals with the Heat, since that will be a sign that we're at least competitive (and they're they're in the only other city worth mentioning in this part of the country).

Yeah, the Celts were my first thought too, as there is hardly a team I despise more (an essential component for a rivalry), but those were the Celts of Pierce and Garnett, and those Celts are no more.

And in lieu of them, we've got several potential rivals, but in my opinion, no real natural ones, and that's why I love that McCartney approach, as CU, being so impossibly shitty for so long, didn't have any natural rivals either, so McCartney might have started much lower the pecking post the old Big 8, and maybe declared Iowa State or K-State or Oklahoma State or Kansas his rival, but he eschewed that shit straight from the start by drawing a giant red circle right around the Nebraska date, and how everyone (including yours truly) thought him insane for doing so, not even attempting to ladder-up, but taking on the 900 lb gorilla right away, making that his absolute emphasis, the team which had bedeviled the University of Colorado for literally decades before, and how the games got suddenly closer and closer until we finally beat them in Boulder (and skies collapsed), and then the next year we beat them in Lincoln (and world's collided), and it became a national showcase, CU vs. NU, every year, the Friday after Thanksgiving.

And it was as we began to become competitive and then beat them, the scales fell from the eyes with such enormous realization, that holy f***, we took on the beast, we have slain him, and all things are possible from this point, and so they were.

And I fully understand that comparing football to basketball is akin to comparing an apple to an orange, but the underlying point beyond the games, that being that absolutely freaking anything is possible within this lifetime, that is what's relevant, and that is what stands.

And so hell yes, aim at the Heat.

Nah. I don't really see the Bucks as our rivals, do you?

Yeah, they have our former head coach, the man most Hawks fans would have run out of town on a rail if not tarred and feathered beforehand (a slight exaggeration, but...).

And Teague? Well hey, that's just business, and it happens all the time, and these are not the things a rivalry makes.

And honestly, the Bucks are such a non-entity on the NBA I'd almost feel embarrassed as to call them our 'rival'.

I think an essential component of a rivalry is you have to absolutely hate as well as respect your rival, even if (at the moment they might be far, far better than you).

I lived in Boulder, Colorado back during the resurgence of CU football under Coach Bill McCartney, when after literally decades of being doormats, they arose from the dead, and how McCartney, every year, would circle the Nebraska game in red on the calendar, and would drive, drive, drive his players towards that, and how after 30+ years in which the Nebraska margin of victory was approximately 58-10, suddenly it wasn't, and the games got much closer, and Colorado began winning, and eventually dominating NU, and all this culminating in CU sharing the split National Championship with Georgia Tech in 1991.

Long story short, shoot for the top. You want to generate a rival, aim for the Heat.

Yeah Soth, I can appreciate a different POV but I've been looking at this site for only a little over a year and it seems like every time you post (and a couple of select others) it's always hyper-negative. Sometimes that sort of thing is warranted, but not in every single thread. I read tons of threads where I disagree with people but I don't write anything to them because my Mama said if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all. You obviously watch a lot of ball and have a lot of knowledge, and a lot of us appreciate that. But there's no need to drop a verbal load on everyone or every thread that doesn't focus on tanking and building through the draft.

A lot of moves have been made in this offseason, and for a large number of us who disagree with the tanking strategy (or those who accept that's not the direction we're going), we're excited.

The Korver re-signing has a lot of potential.

The Millsap signing has a lot of potential.

The Teague re-signing has a lot of potential.

Our rookies from this year and last have a lot of potential.

Brand even brings a good bit of excitement to the table.

There's a lot to be excited about around here in Hawks Country. No need to poo poo every single move because (a) nothing has really been all that bad, (b) nobody wants to hear that over and over, and © as a part of the "culture change" of this organization, we could contribute somewhat in our own little way by changing the way we view and portray our team by not pouring out such a negative viewpoint all the time and instead finding positive ways of supporting our team.

Just my $0.02

Love you long time.

I don't really mind that so much, because if there is any axiom on this earth which holds a grain of truth, that would be that some view the world as being a half empty cup, while others will always see it half-full, and that is just a fundamental aspect of human nature, such differing perceptions of the world, and whether willful or not. That's just who we are.

And and as you noted, Sothron and whomever else has every right to their opinion, and who knows, they might even be right, and we might be headed down to Hell in a hand-basket all over again. However, I can't help but think, hope and envision a half-full cup, and to me personally, it would just be an absolutely epic drag to be so fatalistic as to have virtually given up before it's even started.

But it's such difference of mindset, viewpoint, and opinion which makes a message-board. I mean that's what makes it vibrant and real, are those differences, and the stimulation of thought they bring about along with the discussions they raise, as opposed to some stagnant fricken backwater in which everyone agrees with everyone else. It is valuable to have such fundamental disagreement of view, not only to help crystallize your own, but much more importantly so that you might try and see the other side, as they are equally fans too.

And one thing I will say for Sothron, and Hotlanta, and others of their divergent mindset, is they are absolutely Hawks fans, and all negativity and frustration aside (and honestly, who isn't f***ing frustrated here? I've been starving as a Hawks fan for 40+ years), they never take that out on their fellow fans,but rather just the team, the ownership, the direction, or whatever.

It sucks that everyone puts all their eggs in one basket with this team. For a lot of fans here it seems like there is this championship or bust mentality and while I agree with most, that we have been nothing more than a 2nd round playoff team at best, I don't agree with the championship or tank mentality.

I try not to chime in on this subject as everyone has their opinion and most won't be swayed to the other side of the conversation no matter what side of the fence you are on. But I will like to point out a couple of things:

In any offseason, for the most part there are no more than let's say 2-3 TOP tier free agents. These are the bonofied superstars, with their brand in place, multiple all-star appearances, best player on any team they would go to type players. Then there's the serviceable group, be it starters on the verge of being greater or key players to start or come off the bench. Then there's everyone else... be it potential, change of scenery, playing style, etc.

No matter how much money you can throw at a player(max deals), who's on your rosters, the coaching staff, or the city, It's up to the player to make the decision. All that being said, You can make the best pitch possible no matter if you are the mighty lakers, the "treadmill" hawks", or the lowly bobcats it's ultimately up to the player to make the best decision for himself, his family, and his brand. It's easy to say that DF has failed because he didn't get that 1 player you thought you he should get, but its not that simple people. A gm's ahead of the curve if he gets close to 40-50% of his decisions right. That's how tough that role is people. If you did 40% of your job right, you probably wouldn't have the job in the first place, and it damn sure wouldn't be viewed as a success I assure you.

All that being said, I don't think Danny has made a single "wrong" move. Sure Brand isn't Spry, but he still very serviceable. I would even dare to say more so at this stage in his career than when we got Bibby, which for this franchise was the most solid move in a very long time. It's not like we are resting out hopes on Antoine Walker or anything... lol

If you can start by bringing in nice "secondary" personnel to the team, it makes the team more competitive overall and ultimately makes it easier for that "superstar of tomorrow" to say, "they have nice pieces, I like what they are doing in Atlanta, they've been a playoff team for the past 6 years and just need that piece to get over the hump, and I want to be a part of it."

This is the hawks I see DF building. The one where he had to clean up Billy's choices FIRST. Get the type of players that will buy into the system next, then have those pieces attracted that $$$$$$$$$ FA everyone wants.

CHURCH

Well done. Excellent post.

And for whatever it's worth, I would never call anyone an 'idiot', least of all a brother, as that is just pathetic, but then again that's entirely reflective upon the issuer such insult itself, and indicative their sour, bullshit, and poisonous mindset.

And the fact they've not got the balls to stand behind their own poison words, well, again, I can 'joke' too, but at least I've the sack to stand behind whatever words I might say, and not couch it in terms of 'joke' afterwards.

And again I apologize to AHF as well the rest this board, however I do believe one should take and bear the responsibility their words, and live by them, as what else is there in lack of accountability, but yellow-bellied gutlessness?

I would be actively moderating this if I wasn't on a phone. Take this as a formal warning and knock off the personal attacks.

I would be actively moderating this if I wasn't on a phone. Take this as a formal warning and knock off the personal attacks.

That's fine, and my apologies to the rest of the board. I simply choke and chafe against such unwarranted arrogance. I cannot freaking stand it, but I've said my piece, and now I'm done.

Sorry but this game you like is one I don't play.

I'm sure you don't like being confronted with your own contemptuous words, but I've neither need nor apology from the likes of you, so maybe in lieu of that, you might offer your apologies to the rest of this board, or not.

Turd is as turd does.

No sense of humor here at all.

.....and who's the ione dripping with acidic contemptousness ?

Everyone can have an opinion on message board.

Humor? Precisely what's so funny about being an arrogant asshole?

I'd have far more respect for you if you'd just simply be such, as opposed to being a gutless turd cannot stand behind his own assholish statements right on this board, but how you try to hide them now in the guise of 'humor', and sorry, it just doesn't wash.

You need a good player with some salary attached to him + good cheap young talent (Nogueria, Schröder, Jenkins, Scott, Muscala) + 1st round draft pick to trade for a star. Having some cap room to absord more salary coming back is nice too.

That is how The Celtics got Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett. The Hawks would be in position for a similar deal if one were to arise.

Well then there ya have it, such wisdom come from the man surely wise enough to be an NBA GM, and the one dripping with such acidic contemptuousness as to declare half the Hawks fans posting here as being 'idiots', quoted, and never forgotten, so in light of that, perhaps you're simply far too elevated as to participate amongst the likes of us?

And more on the Joe thing, I remember thinking at that time "Whaaaaat?" Are you freaking serious, and why in the name of God with all the options this man had, including simply staying with a team had every possibility of reaching the NBA Finals, with the money being the same all over the place, why and how on earth would he choose to come to a team fresh off a 13 season?

It was like hitting the lottery, as in someone FINALLY wanting to be here, and not just to draw a check, but to finally have a team where he could be the leader, stamp it, and make it his own, and that took just massive balls on his own part, and I remember sweating through that whole ASG/Belkin mess as it drew out for weeks and weeks and with Joe just hanging on the line and twisting in the wind, and how I was sure he'd eventually say "You know what? F*ck this clown-ass outfit, I'm done", but how he never did, and how I thanked God the day that shit finally ended and he became a Hawk, and the history after that speaks for itself. He turned us from an absolute embarrassment into an outfit being capable and relevant again, and if there lies singular Hawks fan lived through that time who cannot acknowledge that fact, well then, I'm sorry you do not see.

This offseason has shown that we were very fortunate that one day Joe Johnson had pity on our struggling organization and signed an offer sheet with us and begged his old team not to match. He then waited for our owners to stop fighting and get settled so that he could be a Hawk because he wanted to play here.

After 6 allstar appearances we traded him for peanut shells and ground turkey.... And after all the booing and hissing from Atlanta Fans, when he got to Brooklyn, he never said a cross word about Atlanta or his time here.

This offseason, we have missed on every major free agent we went after. None of them wanted to come here. Not Paul, Not Dwight, Not Bynum.

This offseason, Josh leaves and couldn't wait to trash his hometown team.

I know Joe is a net and many of you are happy that he is gone but I applaud the dude because when we couldn't get a free agent, he made it a point to stick with us.

Thanks Joe.

Ditto. I cannot help but feel gratitude to Joe, for wanting (or more accurately, insisting) to come to this team which had just finished 13-69, and for all the opportunities he had, including staying with Phoenix, which at that time was a team literally knocking on Finals door, and for him choosing to come to such dreg outfit as those Atlanta Hawks, I hailed him as a savior, and his arrival here coincided with our resurgence, as we went from a 13 win team, to 26 the very next year, to 30 the year after, and then to 37, 47, and 53 wins.

And our failure to break through was certainly not the fault of Joe, but the rather the disastrous results of the BK regime surrounding him.

So hell yeah, I'm grateful, as he absolutely did elevate us from the one of the lowest of the low to a team might actually (in a far off, distant way) be considered a 'contender'.

Also to add Dennis Schröder looks more athletic than Teague, so that opinion gets thrown out the window right there. Just because Horford and Millsap has more b-ball IQ than previous Hawks players make them "boring"?

I agree that the Spurs are not boring at all. The Heat IMO is the most boring team for me to watch really if we want to go there, and it has everyone's favorite "superstar" on the team.

Also to add Dennis Schröder looks more athletic than Teague, so that opinion gets thrown out the window right there. Just because Horford and Millsap has more b-ball IQ than previous Hawks players make them "boring"?

I agree that the Spurs are not boring at all. The Heat IMO is the most boring team for me to watch really if we want to go there, and it has everyone's favorite "superstar" on the team.

Well, the concept of 'boring' of course is an entirely subjective thing, as shown by the fact that while you might find the Miami Heat to be boring to watch, I sure as heck don't. I mean I love to watch a team with two surefire first-ballot Hall of Famers in their prime (along with a highly, highly capable third sidekick), all this made even more spicy and interesting by the fact that they're in our division, and so on top of everything else, I've just got endless reasons to root against them, and those factors for me = a most compelling watch.

And there are those who think the Spurs are boring, while I see a team so fundamentally solid and sound and so completely committed to being so on both ends of the the court, well, I just see in that a style of play that is an absolute joy to watch, and who can argue with the winning, as style aside, can winning ever truly get boring?

Anyhow, back to the topic of the thread, I am optimistic about the Hawks, as I always am going into every season. Hell, if I didn't feel optimism and a sense of hope each and every year, then I'd go follow professional lawn-darts or tiddlywinks or whatever the case might be. If I ever gave in to a sense of hopelessness and despair regarding this team or any other, well than I simply wouldn't bother anymore, as life is far too short.

There is always hope. Until you are dead and fricken buried in the ground, hope lives.

Man, I really wish people wouldn't do things like this.

Great news. Now I'm hoping we'll see him in the Summer League and then Atlanta this season. No time like the present to start getting acclimated to the Association.

I don't really see why we would bring him here. We just let a great player walk away who actually brought solid D alongside his alter-ego Chuck McChuckerson. I really don't think Ellis is the man for us. In fact, I can imagine the threads on this board now. Just change Smoove out for Monta. No thanks.

I don't really see why we would bring him here. We just let a great player walk away who actually brought solid D alongside his alter-ego Chuck McChuckerson. I really don't think Ellis is the man for us. In fact, I can imagine the threads on this board now. Just change Smoove out for Monta. No thanks.

Yeah, pretty much. He's J-Brick all over again, minus the size and (sometimes) game-changing and highlight inducing defensive capabilities such that Smoove offered, so again, why? Why God, why???????

I don't see much hate for him as a player, but more a question of where and how he's going to fit, as he is a power forward, and so would Al prefer to be.

I think he's a heck of a player and am glad he's here, but we'll just have to see how all the pieces fit in the end, and hopefully they will fit together just like perfect jigsaw puzzle.

All his other issues (and they are many) aside, what you at least get with with Bynum is such tantalizing possible potential, whereas Monta, damn, you're getting what you get, and what he 'gives' is exactly what we do not need here.

I will be seriously sad if we do sign Ellis, and I fricken hope to God some other team steps in and saves us from such stupidity ever occurring.

Win without losing? Is that better or worse than 'lose by losing?'

Yeah. That makes my head spin like some Orwellian concept of double-think straight out of Nineteen Eighty-Four, and as the clocks struck 13: "War is Peace", Freedom is Slavery", Ignorance is Strength".....;. and huh, say whaaaaat???

Wretch is a good guy and an obvious fan, but I just fail to understand why he can't just come out with it and say what it really is he's trying to say.

Awesome tribute, man. I'm going to miss Zaza too. A lot of us will, but as you say, such is life, and life goes on.

Anyhow, I highly doubt you annoyed anyone here, and I hope to see you back, if only to say 'Hi'.

Cheers-

That's really what I've been saying...and I've been saying it for years. Hovering around the middle of the pack, filling our teams with Milsaps, Korvers, and building around Horfords means competing every year and missing the difference makers in the draft. I'm not saying stink...actually, I'm not saying anything about winning or losing.

I'm talking about acquiring HIGH POTENTIAL talent and DEVELOPING it or trading it. Leaving room to sign someone significant should we find ourselves appealing to free agents (IOW - should we land our own stud).

Hmmm, it seems to me like you're just playing word games here, dancing around the gist whilst steadfastly refusing to say what you really mean, so why not just cut the crud and actually say that you're advocating tanking, else what the hell else is it you're talking about here?

Good God is he an awful shooter, and talk about your inefficient chuckers. 28% from 3 last season (and lifetime 32%), and the 19 PPG last season might look nice on the surface, but acquired on 17.5 shots per game, his efficiency as a shooter and scorer is just for the birds (but just hopefully not for these Hawks, please, and no thank you very much).

I cannot understand our seeming fascination with him, but that is a heavy disappointment to me, and all I can do is fervently hope to never see him in an Atlanta Hawks uniform.

Not surprised. I am not angry either. I am relieved now.

Ditto. I kind of feel like we just dodged a very large bullet.

Korver re-signs and now Dwight and Josh have left LA and Josh is coming home to contemplate his future. Hmmm

As Alice said that enigmatic White Rabbit, "Curious, and curiouser!"

No idea what any this stuff might (or might not) mean, as my tea leaves have never done but brew tea, but there are changes cookin' in the breeze, and dense and thick a brick as I might be, I can feel it too.

Exciting times, good days to be alive, as the state of Maine bakes in unusual heat and nearly deathly humidity, and it's just lovely, the heart of summer, and how that just reminds me of Georgia and makes me chuckle at all these Yankees dying in the heat while I luxuriate in it and simply beat the heat by diving in the chill the north Atlantic, and how I can only just sink knees and thank God the beauty each and every moment of this.

And on that note, happy Independence Day/4th of July to you all, be careful, be safe, and let's go, mother-effing Hawks.

Well, he's gone on record as saying he wants to come back. He loves it here and this is where he wants to be, and personally I love Zaza and just hope both sides can come to an amenable agreement so as to keep him in Atlanta.

Hell, other than Smoove, Zaza is our longest tenured Hawk, been here eight seasons now. He's become a mainstay, and at 29 years old, I'd wager he's not quite done just yet, bone spurs and achilles injuries aside.

I love the fricken warrior mentality, despite any physical limitations or deficiencies to his game. The guy always brings it, never ceases to play hard, and battles his ass off every moment out there, and those are highly valuable traits in and of themselves.

He's a sentimental favorite of mine, and I will never forget him standing up to Kevin Garnett in game 6 of the 2008 playoffs, Garnett "Mr. Superstar" doing his usual routine, playing dirty with jagged elbows flying everywhere and mostly getting away with it because very few would ever stand up, but here comes unknown Zaza, and he sure as hell did stand up like none other had before. He got right up in Garnett's fricken grill and called him on that shit, and revealed the fact that Kevin Garnett was just a paper tiger, as 'the superstar' backed down to this 'nobody' from the Republic of Georgia.

An indelible moment in Hawks history, and how the crowd roared, and how it made me feel so proud for him, for us, for hope, and how that made him a beloved player to me.